UK fund snaps up 85% of Dublin 17 housing estate originally aimed at individual buyers

Cheddar Bob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591707#Comment_121591707

There's a bizarre amount of 2 bed council/ AHB homes going up, something that they stopped building in the 60s. Once the parent has 2 or more kids of different genders they'll be on the blower looking for a 3 bed.

Kaybaykwah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591707#Comment_121591707

Actually, you can, and it may be profitable if you are in cahoots with the estate agents. In Montreal, the council has been frantic buying housing for the masses of immigrants and low renters for a couple of years. A middleman schemed with the EAs and came in with offers to have council raise the price of properties. It was systematic anytime bids from the city came in. The council would pay way above market rates.

Ubbquittious

The government is only maximum power point tracking the population. Making it only barely worth staying here while pumping the greatest amount of money through them & making sure they get no value for what they spend

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591858#Comment_121591858

in a working market you can buy you can sell, you can rent

you have terms on rental you are supposed to honor too

you are not really creating any labour mobility issues by having people own homes, they aren't jumping jobs every 3 months

rent is dead money, look at the current market, those with houses, while its not cheap, at least have somewhere to live

those who rent, whose future is in someone elses hands.. fooked

at least nama made a profit 🤦‍♂️

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591546#Comment_121591546

You need more rentals to reduce the price.

Yet when rentals are bought people complain

Maybe you can show the trend you claimed?

magoo84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591920#Comment_121591920

Multiple studies have shown that high home-ownership impairs labour mobility and actually correlates with increased unemployment, which I've found surprising. One the studies is here https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w19079/w19079.pdf and I think the OECD have done a lot of research on this too.

My point about "rent is dead money" was that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, because it stigmatises renting, normalises home ownership over tenancies, and feeds into the Irish attitude that if you're renting, you're either young or have made mistakes in life, so you deserve whatever shoddy treatment you get as a tenant.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591373#Comment_121591373

Actually Cluid is interesting.

They are NGO in name at least, but they received 54million in long term financing from LGIM Real Assets (Legal & General) who invest in organisations in UK providing social and affordable housing.

Cluid is basically investing in housing and providing returns to a global asset management business - an investment fund.

So Cluid is acting on behalf of an investment fund.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591971#Comment_121591971

...so effectively lobbyists....

iColdFusion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591858#Comment_121591858

Its hard to argue against what your saying, just take the planning and house buying processes, both so convoluted and geared against people trying to get their own home and have been that way for decades without anyone trying to fix them you'd have to assume its by design rather than pure incompetence.

Every now and then I think of the economic benefits of keeping workers constantly fighting for better wages, better jobs, getting more qualifications, not having any kids, etc to somehow afford their own home up until their mid 30s to maximise the productivity of a workforce instead of them being able to somewhat relax if they could buy a home in their 20s but thats probably one for the Conspiracy Theory forum!

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591937#Comment_121591937

We've had more rentals, including the new rentals bought by funds and councils. Prices have not come down in any way.

What's happening is your traditional landlord is leaving the market because of rules and restrictions such as around RPZs. Its no longer profitable or worthwhile for them. This has caused a huge drop in supply and a new increase in demand.

To meet this demand, new players are coming in such as the funds. They can charge twice the price of the traditional landlord because THEY ARE NOT SUBJECT TO RPZ. I've put the caps in, in case you don't get it.

That is not a drop in price, its a massive increase in price. Traditional landlord replaced by new landlords and new properties equals huge increase in rent prices, not a drop.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591961#Comment_121591961

you obviously didnt take the time to read that study before linking to it

it is nonsense, its the basis of comparing 2 stats and trying to infer something from them to make the argument suit the answer you want

lots of other things at play they have just ignored

on rent is dead money, it is, long term versus buying

security, you have none, flexibility seems to be the buzzword for the pros of renting, yet no one actually takes advantage of that

if you rent into your 40s you end up in a situation where you wont be able to ever buy, trapped by having kids etc, spending more money on rent into a loop you can't get out out

jmayo

The next major economic downturn is going to make the last one looks like a children's party.

Has anyone recent figures on current government spending because it has to have gone through the roof?

We are inviting here half (the male half) of North Africa, Middle East, The Caucasus, Central Asia, and then adding a fair chunk of Ukraine and housing them, feeding them and providing for them all on the taxpayers back.

Where exactly is the bottomless pit of money?

Then to add to our woes we have a beyond dysfunctional property market.

We are not building any social housing for our own people, but instead signing up to extortionate long term rental agreements with investment funds, all the while freezing out workers who might normally have been able to afford to purchase property.

Middle Ireland is being ridden.

As someone said earlier, too wealthy to be considered for affordable or social housing, but too poor to afford mortgages for anything decent.

Add to that middle Ireland are the ones primarily funding the government spending, but yet are the ones who don't get free decent medical care, even worse now don't even get easy access to GPs even though paying them, can't get free education, can't afford childcare, can't afford nursing homes for elderly relatives, etc, etc.

The most noticeable thing that is going to occur is the future middle Irelanders are going to go elsewhere to make a future life.

The governments of the 21st century are going to eventually make the worst of Devs look professional forward thinkers.

There is a reckoning a coming and it is going to be vicious.

magoo84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592068#Comment_121592068

The narrative around landlords leaving the market is questionable at best. Census data has shown that the number of rented homes has increased, despite the number of registered tenancies decreasing

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592068#Comment_121592068

So can you back up the claim to show the trend as you claimed?

The post above is your opinion. I ask because the trends I see is home owners are buying the properties in the majority so if you had a different analysis that would be interested

TheIrishGrover

This is absolutely sickening and I hear people saying it should be illegal. How could it be made illegal though?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it but I'm just wondering about the technicalities and legalities involved in making it illegal. I would imagine that it would be a case of "Well, they have the money. You can't NOT sell it to them because they are British. That's discrimination"

Maybe via some Brexit clause? But I suppose then some German or French or other group could come in.

I mean this is a win-win for these funds: Not only are they making money hand-over-fist with massive rent but the very same massive rent means that people can't save money for deposit to get on the property ladder. Guaranteeing them their renters.

I'm not a bleeding-heart socialist and don't believe everyone should be guaranteed their own home but people should be able to at least have the right to ATTEMPT to get on the property ladder and this robs people of this right. Amoral.

magoo84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592075#Comment_121592075

I don't think you read my reply - I said home ownership correlates positively with unemployment, I didn't say one caused the other, as I do know the difference between correlation and causation.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591961#Comment_121591961

Not sure you are living in the real world. If you have a family and ties to an area such as school places, and suddenly your landlord decides to sell up, what do you do then? And suppose your landlord was in a RPZ and was charging 2000 a month, and now you can move to a new property down the road, but its 3500 a month?

Renting in this country is not a stable life for everyone. Many former renters are now classed as homeless and can't get back into the rental market in the near future.

And there is no evidence that an increase in rental supply has brought down prices, if anything its the opposite, as new properties are not restricted in price.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592068#Comment_121592068

the rental market is shrinking and continues to shrink

the RPZ is a short term stop gap bandaid, not a solution

solution is supply

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592089#Comment_121592089

Anecodotal evidence and newspaper stories day in day out of middle class people and couples living at home or stuck in rental accomodation who can't get on the property ladder. Countless TV programs and documentaries about it too. To deny there is a squeezed middle who can't get on the housing ladders is bizzare. Numerous stories of renters facing evictions. And numerous stories of people emigrating because they can't buy a house here.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592141#Comment_121592141

....but we ve hit a serious capacity constraint, so, we re stuck.....

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592121#Comment_121592121

i read your first post and your reply

correlates to higher unemployement

without looking at what causes it

magoo84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592132#Comment_121592132

I think you're strawmanning me a little bit here. I was arguing for how the rental market ought to work, not how it does today.

Regarding increased supply, I mentioned Lorcan Sirr's point that increases of developer-built housing stock have been accompanied by increased prices, as developers don't build if house prices are falling. The issue is who is doing the building and for whom. If the government built properties themselves by employing builders directly, they have more control over costs, margins etc and from the builders perspective, state developments are safer financially, and generate employment.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592149#Comment_121592149

its not like we have had maybe 10 years leading up to this to rectify this issue

there is capacity out there to build more just no concerted effort to do so

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592148#Comment_121592148

So the answer is no.

Would have been a lot easier if you said that at the start

Everyone is aware we have a housing crisis, at the moment from what I can see Ireland is building as many houses as possible with the workforce we have available. Not sure what is to be gained by spreading false information constantly around the web

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592087#Comment_121592087

Any source to back up this statement? Nevermind, I will help you out.

Are landlords really fleeing the Irish housing market? (rte.ie)

The census includes people renting a room in a landlords house for example - their tenancy is not registered.

The RTB only count registered tenancies of properties, and there has been a fall in these.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592110#Comment_121592110

People want rental properties, if these companies don't provide them then who does?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592226#Comment_121592226

...tis going on for about 15 years, if not more...

disagree there, theres simply not enough people available for whats needed, with a rapidly aging construction workforce, wes got problems!

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592237#Comment_121592237

Nonsense. I provided the answer.

Where's your evidence there isn't a renting culture or a large section of the population stuck in a rental rut?

And remember to include the homeless, those forced to move back with parents, those forced to emigrate, and those renting rooms with landlords.

Show us the evidence.

magoo84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592270#Comment_121592270

I've wondered about the capacity thing. I work in Dublin City Centre and there are cranes and holes in the ground all over the place. Maybe it's a different skill set building high-rise offices to apartment blocks or houses (I genuinely don't know) but it seems the capacity is misallocated rather than lacking altogether.

Ten of Swords

Link in the op is broken and I know it worked before

Was the story pulled?