UK fund snaps up 85% of Dublin 17 housing estate originally aimed at individual buyers

Cheddar Bob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121590119#Comment_121590119

What was it, of 30k new homes built last year something like 7000 were available for private buyers to purchase- the rest were built for vulture funds or councils/ AHBs. Which means with so few new homes to buy there is greater competition to buy existing 2nd/3rd/4th hand homes.

7000 new homes for purchase in a country where something like 50- 60k people annually become adults (not that 18 year olds buy homes or ever did, but this amount of people will be hitting the traditional home buying age yearly, say 28 29 30). And that doesn't factor inward migration, some of it of people with money to burn for a home (IT sector, medicine).

Too poor to buy a home, too rich to get a council home- the squeezed middle has never been bigger nor more squeezed.

Cheddar Bob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121590313#Comment_121590313

Rural areas, maybe.

Urban areas, if a mother with two children cant afford the full whack of 1800 per month rent without HAP support, the landlord would get rid of her and find 7 Brazillians who can afford 2100 rent.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121590998#Comment_121590998

Yes there was a deal done to offload them, they're all four beds now according to the article.

They weren't selling.

baldbear

I live near enough these houses. Absolute carnage with traffic. Not too far from a halting site.

I remember about 3 years ago the sisters mother in law was encouraging her to buy there as it had the name Malahide on the address. I laughed heartily.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121590995#Comment_121590995

Cars have nothing to do with houses and housing supply. You can buy a used car for 1% of a house, and a used car is not a commodity built on limited land.

Hoboo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121589665#Comment_121589665

The fund is obligated to have an Irish director, the UK is no longer in the EU.

This is normal practice, probably a non-exec/nominee.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591021#Comment_121591021

Great

So why didn't they advertise them to Joe public for €477,000? Like they clearly made money at €477,000. The whole system is designed to keep the prices so incredibly artificially high that a small number of people are making millions of euro at the expense of Joe Public.

It's just so dirty.

Look at the heat they've drawn on themselves.

I'm surprised they didn't sell to be honest, I thought there was severe shortage... Maybe we've reached a plateau?

baldbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591004#Comment_121591004

Prices are way too high. Estate is not a great area. On the N32 doorstep (halting site) and Darndale.

Government will throw cash at the vultures here now and pay extortionate rents

Tenzor07

International Investment funds seem to own most of Ireland's new commercial and residential property and FFFG are just by-standers in this, will SF if elected change this? Probably not, the horse has bolted, Ireland is a massive low-tax cash machine for these funds and SF aren't radical enough to change that and even if they did I'm sure Brussels will rein them back in....

These houses will get renters, but won't be young working families which would create a community, it will be multiple individuals renting a room each @ €1,000 per room... Or short term corporate lettings... may also be Govt. dept's/Fingal council to house new arrivals..

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121590897#Comment_121590897

Pressure by government to take it down is the most likely answer. Because its a total disgrace...

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591025#Comment_121591025

It not about the price, it's about government restricting what people can and cannot buy.

We're on the road to communism if government make laws like you suggested.

monkeybutter

people not able to see the forest for the trees

the rental market is fucked, it needs supply, this is the only game in town to increase rental properties at this stage

whether it go to private renters or social, its all one big pot that keeps shrinking

it will get worse and worse as demand outstrips supply

This is what happens when you stop building social housing

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591126#Comment_121591126

How could they even do that? Newspapers (and the media in general) run stories that are critical of the government or party leaders all the time - this is not Russia. It's more likely that they have accused the private rental firm of something factually incorrect and were forced to pull the story.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121590998#Comment_121590998

Here's a novel one...the council could buy them. Maybe they were approached and could not get the deal done.

Meanwhile, the council's are buying second hand homes with tenants in situ all.over Dublin, including DCC area.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591006#Comment_121591006

You can almost see the attraction for lazy developers and estate agents. Why go to all that trouble selling to individual buyers, showing them around, etc when you can sell en masse to a vulture fund. And if government aren't going to act, there's nothing to stop them.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591140#Comment_121591140

Did it ever occur to you why rental demand is so high and "fucked"? Maybe the inability of people to buy houses might be a factor?

The whole housing situation is interlinked and screwed. Building houses to rent is not really the answer, especially rented out at extortionate prices which means some people will never be able to save to buy a new house. They are then stuck in a vicious circle of renting and eventually the government have to step in to subsidise them.

People buying houses with a mortgage is the best solution all round.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591131#Comment_121591131

Absolute rubbish. Government step in and intervene on a daily basis with laws and no-one shouts communism.

Of course they can restrict, they already raised stamp duty, is that communism too? They should have raised it to a much higher level, and removed loopholes. Also communism?

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591250#Comment_121591250

Did you read what I said? I doubt it

building houses to rent is the answer to the rental market

the rental price is down to lack of rental properties, no one else is going into this market, the base of properties is shrinking

of course the whole thing is linked, but giving out because a house goes to rental rather than buying makes no sense

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591250#Comment_121591250

You need a supply of rental and new houses. Plenty of people don;t want to buy or are not in a position to buy yet. So they need rental houses.

You also need new properties.

The over the top reaction whenever any houses are bought to rent is odd to be honest and really the original article with Sinn Fein all over it says it all. Remember they are the party who have made the housing crisis worse and worse by constantly objecting to housing yet when anything happens they are in complaining about the crisis

At end of day, people need rental properties, people also need properties to buy. In the majority in Ireland for the last few years the houses etc built are been sold to people to live in. The home ownership rate is going up.

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591131#Comment_121591131

The State fully or partially pays the housing costs of a significant fraction of the population. It's a bit late to fret about communism.

iColdFusion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121590130#Comment_121590130

Cluid bought all them and I think more on that site, not an investment fund.

The government have been great in making out "vulture funds" are the enemy of private buyers when really its the AHBs hoovering up all the private developments.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591346#Comment_121591346

As I said, a culture of renting is being created, in other words, a growing number of people are never in a position to buy/own their own house. The rental pressure just keeps increasing, far in excess of rental supply. Prices go up, new vulture funds etc become involved as its more profitable. They can set the price as high as they want, as they are not subject to RPZs since they are new properties. Meanwhile more established landlords are driven out who can't compete and are unable to raise their rents. Eventually the majority of new builds are for renting, owned by vulture funds and so on. The trend appears to be going that way.

This is not a good thing. Renting at extortionate prices is a cycle many people find difficult to break out of.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591463#Comment_121591463

"a culture of renting" not sure how you are getting this. People have always wanted to rent, when you leave college/uni you will want to rent. People moving to Ireladn to work will rent. People saving for a house will rent etc etc

Ireland needs a rental and a market to buy.

Most European countries have a long term rental system and people have no intention of every buying.

The majority of houses have and will continue to be bought by home owners, so the prediction of majority of builds for rent and vulture funds is based on what? What trend do you see that says this? could you share?

lmao10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591140#Comment_121591140

airbnb is a huge factor. Took a lot of the housing that would have been up for rent as normal. Major major factor in the current situation.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591509#Comment_121591509

I spelled out clearly how I got to the culture of renting. People unable to buy their own homes, the squeezed middle. They can't save a deposit because of the high cost of renting. Even if they could save for a deposit, house prices are beyond them. Of course people want to rent up to a certain age and a small minority might be happy to rent their entire lives. Although we do not have the same security of tenure laws as some other countries and there are countless stories in Ireland of people thrown out on the street who are retired. The vast majority of adults over 30 want to own their own property, there's no question of that, and given houses prices a large number will struggle to get there.

You do understand that if people can't buy new homes, it pushes up prices particularly of second hand homes further and also pushes up numbers who are forced to rent? Again this is not a good thing. Do you rent by the way?

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591546#Comment_121591546

if you don't have additional homes to rent you will have high rental prices

its a sum total of house, you have a cohort who rent till they can afford to buy

having high rental prices makes it harder to save and then buy

the rental market is way worse than the to buy market because it is shrinking faster , no one except these funds are getting into the market, just as is the case in other European countries

so buying to rent buying to own, same end result

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591235#Comment_121591235

There are very obvious commercial benefits to bulk selling properties, so I’m not sure why you label them lazy. It would negligent for the developer to refuse such an offer.

hello2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591006#Comment_121591006

Council buying or renting these houses at exorbitant price is the main issue.

Why there is no cap for council to rent or buy a house which is given away for free ? as this is driving individual middle class working families and renters out of the market.

how can anyone bid above the council which has unlimited money ??

a working family has to live within means with kids sharing room but new arrivals are entitled to one room per child in new A rated houses

Wanderer78

its clearly obvious, the whole financialised approach to housing has completely failed!

magoo84

It's so depressing that this is still happening. There are loads of reasons our housing system is so dysfunctional, and a lot of them are to do with government ideology which itself reflects wider attitudes in Irish society towards property ownership and tenancies.

For the Government's part, I can't see this situation changing with the current parties in power. I don't know what the alternatives would do differently, but Fianna Fail, and particularly Fine Gael are ideologically wed to "the market" and the belief that it has the solutions to all the State's problems and the State itself is the barrier to those solutions. There is also no way that any Irish politician will do anything that would negatively affect house prices, a likely side-effect of any meaningful intervention to solve the crisis. They're much happier for tenants to get hammered with extortionate rents than inflict any pain on homeowners, and homeowners most certainly aren't going to show any solidarity with their renting compatriots (see the bit about mé féinism at the bottom)

Without sounding too conspiratorial, given the amount of time the parties of Government have been in power, and given that this crisis was completely foreseeable, but happened anyway, it's hard not to conclude that what's happening is actually by design, and the intended result of government policy, rather than an outlier. The Social Democrats tweeted a video which edited together clips where a FFG minister in the Dail says "housing can't be fixed overnight" for each year of the last decade or so . Maybe I'm cynical, but I do I think the Government more or less dismisses tenants as electorally unimportant "poor people", especially given the Taoiseach's proclivity towards demonising people on social welfare or living in emergency accommodation with divisive dogwhistles towards his base like announcing that FG are the party of "middle Ireland" - I thought a party of Government were supposed to govern for all?

There doesn't seem to be any urgency to solve it whatsoever. If you want to solve a housing crisis, you have to throw the kitchen sink at it, not tinker around the edges with a development here and a development there. I'm sick to death of seeing Darragh O'Brien's mug in photoshoots outside newly built developments, and he ought to be spending that time more productively elsewhere.

Prof. Lorcan Sirr of TUD and Dr Rory Hearne have been beating this drum for years, and have outlined on multiple difference podcasts the ways in which Government and civil service ideology have contributed to this mess. The highlights include:

Overreliance on developers building private homes to increase supply, instead of state-led municipal housing programmes which employ builders directly. Increasing developer-built supply will not bring down house prices, as developers tend not to build when house prices are falling. CSO stats from the last few years show that increased developer supply has actually accompanied increasing prices. 20,000 extra developer-built houses would bring down prices by 1%.

The government is ideologically opposed to state-led municipal (non-social) housing projects because they cost it as current expenditure, not capital expenditure. They calculate the cost of building a house as the number of units times the unit cost. In reality, you only need seed funding to build housing. Build 1000 houses, sell them, use the proceeds to build the next 1000 etc. Employing builders directly rather than using developers also offers more price certainties i.e. margins tend to remain stable. For builders, state developments are safer financially, and generate employment.

Councils buy 2 social houses for every one they build, so they’re competing with first-time buyers for the same housing stock. Housing output has rocketed since 2017 by 45% but the number of houses for sale has decreased. In 2017, half of all houses built made it to market, now it’s 28%. 40% of stamp duty transactions are purchases by first time buyers or movers, while the rest is made up of institutional funds and social housing. Buyers/movers make up an even lower percentage in Dublin.

Planning interventions have made building a house more expensive - the allowance of reduced unit sizes and increased height mean more units can be built on the same site, increasing land price. Planners are also obsessed with density and height, often conflating the two. You can have dense low rise, for example.

I do believe the Government's contributions to this mess are just reflections of wider societal attitudes towards property ownership and renting. Part of the reason that we don't have a mature, properly regulated, well-supplied rental sector is because renting is stigmatised in Ireland, and is seen by a lot of Irish people as almost vulgar or delinquent behaviour on the part of people who lack personal responsibility and could buy a house if only they got their act together and saved harder, as illustrated by that ridiculous “avocado toast” article in the Irish Independent a few years ago.

“Rent is dead money” is a common belief passed down from parents to their children, even though you could say the same about lots of other necessary expenditure. It conveniently overlooks the hundreds of thousands of Euro you’ll pay in interest over the full term of a mortgage. That seemingly doesn’t qualify as “dead money.” It also fails to consider the opportunity cost of tying up a huge chunk of your income into bricks-and-mortar for 25–30 years, or the reduced labour mobility and the financial vulnerability that comes with spending all your money on an illiquid asset that is regularly cycles between boom-and-bust valuations, especially in Ireland. This all creates a situation where the only way to guarantee you won't end up homeless after you retire in Ireland is to have bought your home 20-odd years previously, leading to a societal expectation of home-ownership which is a huge burden for younger people, and the system as it is only caters to couples. If you want to buy a reasonably-sized property as a single on the average industrial wage, forget about it. None of these would be a problem if we normalised renting by offering large-scale municipal housing, long-term tenancies, proper regulation, deposit management and dispute resolution mechanisms.

The commodication (or fetishisation) of property ownership along with the tying up of most of the country's wealth in property and land also contributes to our chronic undersupply of rental properties. As soon as they get on the property ladder, a lot of Irish homeowners compound the situation and pull the ladder up behind them by objecting to any future developments in their locality that would dare touch the value of their beloved property. It shows the thread of mé féinism we deny exists but really runs right the way through Irish society. We don't seem to have the same sense of the "common good" as in other countries, and we're closer to the law of the jungle that you see in the USA