UK fund snaps up 85% of Dublin 17 housing estate originally aimed at individual buyers

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592548#Comment_121592548

No, just saying you(plural) shouldnt blindly listen to supposed economists by virtue of their job title.

Also, this thread is titled "UK Fund..." where at least some of the directors are irish. My only issue with this purchase is that we as the taxpayer are likely to fund the rents rather than simply building social housing. Which would be cheaper than paying these silly rents but also would provide jobs in construction. I'm not a socialist, far from it, but building social housing is infinitely more palatable to me than putting in a ridiculous market floor. Funded by taxpayers... who are then competing against the government for these rentals in the private sector.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592665#Comment_121592665

thats interesting, hes not the only one thinking of this, even in this thread, theres one or two of us with the same type of thinking.....

you do also realise, its primarily economists that advise such decisions and decision makers, including, and in particular, governments.....

yup, moving back towards a more state centric model is really the only way, but that in itself will be very problematic, and im also not convinced cheaper either, but maybe more stable, maybe....

SuperBowserWorld

The government will throw in a referendum on what colour socks the Ceann Comhairle of Dáil Éireann should wear to give them impression that we matter.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592695#Comment_121592695

...blue maybe, green is a bit.....

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592068#Comment_121592068

While landlords leaving the market is not a good thing, I think you are overestimating the goodness of the traditional Irish private landlord. The problem with these (and no disrespect to them) is that the rentals they provide tend to be very insecure compared to what might be possible in a properly regulated professional market such as you have in places like Germany.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592730#Comment_121592730

yup, we desperately need to also introduce protections for such landlords, theyre a part of the solution, theyre getting screwed to.....

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592745#Comment_121592745

However I think no matter what you do, large numbers of small landlords will never be the way forward in providing long term secure and reasonably priced rentals to tenants.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592664#Comment_121592664

I think you have that backwards. High density in the city core = shorter commute, 3 bed semi-d's in the suburbs = longer commute I would have thought?

iColdFusion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592551#Comment_121592551

There are massive differences between office blocks and apartment blocks and the build costs are also astronomically different, its far, far more profitable to build an office block for rent than an apt block for rent of the same size.

Fundamentally office spaces are large open plan areas and are usually fitted out by the company moving into it, eg cheap to build with a smaller upfront cost to the developer even if they look amazing from the outside.

The same floor space might have 10 apartments that all need fire rated walls separating them, then bathrooms, kitchens, heating, water and waste connections, smoke ventilation, a sprinkler system etc, waaayy more expensive upfront costs and much higher risk for a developer

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592690#Comment_121592690

If someone like me (a staunch capitalist) is in favor of social housing and disavowing the existing rent setup, it must show just how much the existing setup is subsidised by the government and also that building social housing would likely be cheaper than the existing pay rent ad infinitum model. Not to mention the boost to local economy via construction jobs on state projects. We did it until the 70's & 80's.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592745#Comment_121592745

I agree. Private landlords are getting shafted, which in turn pushes rents up, which in turn makes everything worse.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592764#Comment_121592764

the word 'dublin' was used, its a county, not just a city!

id imagine you are right though, and yes, we clearly need to ramp up our building of apartments in our major cities, we also need to start building up....

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592783#Comment_121592783

We need to build out, plenty of spaces within the m50 belt. We also as you say need to build up. Other major cities already found this out (and still have expensive rents and prices, but with vastly higher populations).

What we need to avoid however, is a repeat of the Ballymun project which basically created a drug and unemployment problem by housing folk in one area with little to no resources, jobs, or entertainment. If we can build new complexes with supporting amenities, build up more than a few storeys, support with local stores, chemists, other job sources etc and transport links to other parts of the city and country, that sounds a lot better than stumping up many multiples of 3k+ per month rent. Those 3k per month per unit all add up!

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592781#Comment_121592781

yea its fcuked, and this has been clearly obvious for years now, and again, not just here, we clearly took some sort of radically wrong turn with this whole capitalism thing a number of decades ago, we clearly need to pivot again with it, and quickly, before the real nut jobs turn up, from all sides....

we done it way back before then also, and it worked reasonably well, we can do this again, we have to, or the whole thing could truly fall apart, and very quickly so.....

we ve done incredible things in this country over the last few decades, we ve become something to be very proud of, we cant completely fcuk it all up for your kids and grandkids....

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592769#Comment_121592769

The time to build in all those is when building them. There should be a mix of office/retail/accommodation within the same building. It makes sense from an environmental point of view and also a social point of view. A lot of young people work in Dublin city centre, commute there during the day, go home and often come back in again to socialise. It makes no sense. Also makes no sense to go back to the 5 day a week in the office model if there's an option to work from home and for people to hot desk and have smaller office buildings. The hybrid model has been shown to work.

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592575#Comment_121592575

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592575#Comment_121592575

yeah thats right, companies want max profits. Understandable. What I fail to understand is, citizens voted in those wasters into the Dail, to improve the country and represent US! not big business with more money than god... Laughably, the government also make all decisions on zoning, density, design standards etc, their gaslighting that the "big bad developer " is to blame, is comedy...

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592873#Comment_121592873

...this is far from comedy, this is gonna get much much worse, and probably scarily so.....

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592884#Comment_121592884

feeding the population these lies of "its so complex" you couldnt possibly understand you common plebs... I understand fully... We have an outrageous planning system, they want "standards" to dictate that prices will be very high for new builds, they dont want to implement any form of effective property taxes like they have in other countries, literally only recently , talk of taxes to incentivise addressing the insane rate of dereliction and urban decay etc... 90% of the land in the docklands, had commercial built on it, how highly sustainable, lets just import the workers from all over leinster on a third world public transport system. Or they could have built medium density blocks, 10-12 floors high and you be in your docklands workplace in five minutes, by foot.. So they make outrageously bad decisions and I am meant to believe its all so complex, rather than the simple explanation of they are actually dangerous morons or appear like dangerous morons, but are doing it intentionally...

BillyHaelyRaeCyrus

Its so disgusting, its going to cause untold misery.

Renting privately in Ireland is shamed, its viewed as dead money and the people doing it are viewed, by general society as dead money failures. I know I am one. Also we have ZERO plans in place for retired renters or any real ability to stay long term, so any renter is likely to experience homelessness or hidden homelessness like having to move in with family, thats already something that happened to me.

In this country the only thing our parents, siblings and the wider population see as an acceptable way to live is owning or social housing. Anything else is dead money. And people paying dead money are shamed for it. The housing crisis is people having to rent and not own or have social housing. More renting is increasing the crisis, I rent and will always be ashamed as miserable as a result. Its destroyed me and stops me living an acceptable life

Id love us to have a German culture where renting is normal but in Ireland its shamed as dead money

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592664#Comment_121592664

Why would you force couples and families out of Dublin? do you think couples or families can't live in apartments?

You might find it strange but couples and families live in apartments all over the World, including Dublin. Plus more properties mean people have the choice to downsize in the area and free up housing etc. At the moment what can people downsize to in most areas in Dublin? they can't.

Emblematic

Quick question for people here. The headline says that the estate was "originally aimed at individual buyers". I wonder if this is the issue. If the developer came out and said that the development was intended for the rental market from the outset would most of peoples objections disappear? I think most people understand that there's shortages in the rental market.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593032#Comment_121593032

That's just a journalist using sensation language. Houses are built to sell, not sure why a builder would say they are aimed at an individual or a couple of multiple buyers. That would be restricting their selling base.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593092#Comment_121593092

Yes, basically I'm wondering if it this basic journalistic phrasing rather than any substantive fact that has got people wound up.

If people thought (rightly or wrongly) that the developer always intended the properties for the rental market, would people be so upset?

BillyHaelyRaeCyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593032#Comment_121593032

No, I would always object build to rent of any kind. And I think most Irish people would. Paying dead money is against our culture and renters like me are socially stigmatised. So I would object to creating more victims and economic outcasts

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593117#Comment_121593117

But would you not also accept that part of this stigma is due to rental in Ireland being so woefully expensive, scarce and insecure? You want to be squeezed further?

BillyHaelyRaeCyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593130#Comment_121593130

No, its nothing to do with price. It was cheap 10 years ago and 15 years ago and it was still called dead money. The house with tenants on my familys street (they where actually a family with 3 kids) was referred to as the "rented house" in the 2000s. Renting in Ireland is shamed because we own houses or else get social housing. Our families look down on anything else, and that being looked down on is the housing crisis

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593108#Comment_121593108

This stype of story sells/get clicks. As we can see here. People dont want the background or why the houses are bought for rent . All they want is a story with very little detail. The usual spin from Sinn Fein and then go on rampage about housing.

Has gone on for years. Interesting part is this was pulled so was it all BS by the journalist to get clicks?

Repo101

Do councils even manage and purchase homes directly anymore? Most social housing in my area is provided by not-for-profits like Tuath who are government funded without the state directly managing or overseeing the stock. Seems like another recipe for disaster.

The throw money at X, Y and Z approach doesn't work and clearly the state needs to be directly involved in this activities at a much larger scale. The mix of let the market work while regulating every aspect of housing to the teeth approach doesn't work.

Inwards migration of professionals and asylum seekers is just going to make the problem a lot worse. Relying on Glenveagh, Cairn Homes etc. to build what is required is madness. It will take 5+ years to train up or import the people required to meet our needs as a society and another 10 years to build.

A complete and utter failure by successive governments and best of all, the opposition's solution is to simply reduce the price to €300k. Doing nothing would be better policy than what our current political representatives can come up with.

BillyHaelyRaeCyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593231#Comment_121593231

And its a nightmare for people, getting hap in a private estate is not secure housing and is still viewed as dead money. The stigmatisation of renters in Ireland is another level of shame, its hard to compare it to anything aside from perhaps being a convicted criminal. Even then, I dont think most criminals get shamed by family etc like renters do for being dead money

Why as a country can we not view someone who doesnt own property as a good person?

Cluedo Monopoly

We just seem to evolving as robots in a fund of some sort. The radio said that many of our nursing homes are owned by UK pension funds now.

Scipri0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121590234#Comment_121590234

A few things stick out for me here when i read that article. First of all why was the article removed in various media outlets without any reasons being given? It's stuff like this that make people not trust the media. People will get pissed off if they read this article, so maybe they're trying to keep it under the wraps? The government is complicit in this racket.

The things that stood out to me are that the rents are €3,175 per month, so only people in high wage jobs like Tech workers will be able for these, don't most of our tech workers immigrate here so while these high paying jobs are good for the workers that get and can afford them it also raises rent prices in the locality, so even just five minutes walk down the street you'd have minimum wageworkers competing to rent places, but they can't compete with the tech high wages which raises rents in their local area by a lot of pricing those below out of it.

Next it says that this is their 16 location in Ireland, so they've 15 other estates. These will go on the rental market and the council might pay these funds a continuous payment to house people on the social housing lists which is throwing away money, If the council built them themselves or even bought them out they'd save more money in the long run.

They were acquired for €21.5 million even though the price of them individually should've cost €26 million so saved some money along the way but now only that, but there's also this lovely loophole, so investment funds don't have to pay Stamp Duty on 10 or more houses in a 12-month period, but you noticed it didn't say anything about buying more than 10 Apartments. I can't believe that the government or their advisers didn't think of this beforehand.

The news comes despite measures enacted by the government in 2021 designed to block investment funds from bulk buying homes in housing estates.

A new stamp duty rate of 10 per cent was introduced for any fund that bought more than ten houses in a 12-month period. The higher stamp duty rate did not apply to funds bulk purchasing apartments.

Basically, our country is being sold out beneath our feet and being rented back to us, and the Irish government is okay with this. When they talk about SF and what they might do to International investments, I feel like this is one of the reasons and tells you straight away that they don't want things to change and why the multiple articles were removed is troubling if only for the reason that it might anger people!

People should be getting the truth from the media, even if it's something they might not want to hear! I've taken a screenshot of the archive, just in case that "Disappears" as well. To read the image in the picture just click the imagine then when it opens just right-click the image again and open in new tab and you can zoom in.

https://imgur.com/a/saWoMGb