Landowners DOB

Half-cocked

I've just received my first licence renewal in about 2 years and see that the landowners DOB is now required. Any idea why?

Cass

That's odd.

None of my landowners would give that. Some don't even like giving their phone number and a few only give me verbal permission so I cannot use them on any applications.

Is it marked "M" on the form? IOW mandatory.

tomtucker81

If I recall correctly off hand, there are many new parts to fill in on an application form, be it 1st time or renewal.

I did a renewal around last summer I think, and landowners full details were on it. More about what specific components are on the rifle too. I just remember there was way more detail to it than before.

spoke to the firearms officer by phone, he rang me to ask how many rounds I could carry. I've a 5 round magazine I have.

So 5?

Well 6 if I drop the mag and put one more into it after cycling the first round.

So 6?

Unless I buy a 10 round magazine.

So 10?

Well, are we counting the box in my bag, coz whatever was left in the box I've them with me too, or is it just those now attached to the gun as such?

Anyway, he explained there was a bit more detail wanted, new sections/parts. So specific landowner details are now created and he has a pulse number. Anyone else that renews and uses that landowner will be attached to that landowners number. It just seemed to me like they're keeping a record of how many people shoot on certain areas- I think that's going to raise its head in a few years, no doubt on safety grounds.

Sorry for the ramble. Cass- you'll have to get full details of the landowners if they're going on a renewal form now

Munsterlad102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577272#Comment_121577272

It’s very concerning that they’re going after magazines and saying what you’re maximum is. What if they say my limit is 5 rounds? What happens to my 10 rounders? Can I possess them or are AGS going to want me to surrender them?

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058329838/landowners-dob

Date of birth is useful for distinguishing people that have the same name. You're lucky they aren't asking for their PPSN.

On a more practical basis, it may be an issue with those under 18 or over 110.

Cass

Surely folio numbers cover every detail of the landowner and it's why the NPWS ask for them when applying for a deer license. I just don't see the need for a DoB and I know some or most of my permission holders won't be keen to give over more. Even though "the government" know it already there is a tick in Irish mentality to not give "the man" any information.

As for mag limits, the simple solution is to put down the maximum number you can legally have. It's not a lie, and if the license does limit you to whatever you state then saying, for example, you have ten round capability for your .22lr is true if you already have or decide to buy a 10 round mag for it.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577841#Comment_121577841

They aren’t going after them. They are simply recording the details, have been for a while. So instead of just make/model the system also lists capacity. If you have 10 round mags, or plan to . Then put that down.

garrettod

No sign of the NARGC, the IFA etc. opposing any of this, no?

It's causing unnecessary grief imho.

tomtucker81

I got a renewal yesterday, here's a few things that I think are new.

The covering letter mentioning night vision being restricted, whether it's the scope or attachment.

And the landowner section is here, it's a bit more detailed?

20240119_122027.jpg

20240119_121709.jpg

Screenshot_20240119_121954_Chrome.jpg

slipperyox

so a normal scope (as per pic 2) needs additional authorisation?

How is NV applied for then? another FCA1?

Cass

No, only light emitting scopes in the form of Night vision, thermal, laser range finding, etc.

Normal telescopic scopes don't have these features so are not restricted and require no authorisation as they're merely optics. No different than a telescope for watching the sky, or a pair of binoculars.

As for how to apply for NV, there has been a few threads on the matter a few months back like this or this. It's the same process as applying for any restricted firearm.

Sika98k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656418#Comment_121656418

Actually I see no mention of thermal scopes being restricted in the legislation. I’d be very glad if someone could highlight it.

Cass

It's the second post of the first linked to thread, by me.

"Cass - This law has been in place since 1990. Section 4(g)(I) states a firearm as defined in the 1925 Act now includes;

(i) telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope sights with an electronic light amplification device or an infra-red device, designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b), (c) or (e),"

A couple of posts later I explained how they are restricted.

Cass - A suppressor is also a firearm under the act but unlike a dedicated Nightvision set up suppressors were made unrestricted by SI21/2008 as amended by SI337/2009.

NV stuff was classified as a firearm in the 1990 act as outlined above however the same SIs made them restricted in 2008/2009 and as such they remain so. "

If you wish to argue the minutiae of whether a thermal is an electronic light amplification device or not will cost you a high court case and at least €100,000.

Sika98k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121662289#Comment_121662289

I asked as I advised a friend that his thermal scope could require a restricted licence. Being a decent lad his next port of call was the local in charge of firearms licensing. He was advised that as a thermal scope it did not.

“Electronic light amplification device” ? That’s not how thermal works.

Cass

@Sika98k - He was advised that as a thermal scope it did not

Fair enough.

@Sika98k - Electronic light amplification device” ? That’s not how thermal works

It takes the infrared energy emitted by the object and converts it, electronically, into data and displays it as an image.

I'm not the internet police not do I deal with licensing, and if the Garda at your friend's station doesn't require him to have a restricted license then bully for him. I'm not going to argue or get into a debate on who is right or wrong as it's no skin of my nose either way.

The law says what it says and if your friend does require a restricted license and is caught with the device then saying his local FO told him it was ok won't save him. If the Garda is right then a lot of lads are selling their gear for no reason and others are licensing something that doesn't need it

garrettod

Hi,

What happens if you have a permission that has been used for getting your licence, then "renewal" time comes, and landowner doesn't want to give their DOB?

Do the Gardai then look at your form, conclude that it's no longer an acceptable landowner's permission and use it as a reason to decline (as you don't meet requirements) ?

Grizzly 45

Not much they can do about it tBH as it is not a mandatory piece of info on the form.

If they want to be thick about it I suppose they could,but it would be an interesting one to explain to your solicitor and a DJ that the same person was good enough on previous permissions that they gave you with their name and address and land details,but refused to give their DOB is now not a valid permission.

garrettod

I'm not so sure tbh, there's strategy at play here, and it ultimately relates to finding any and every way to frustrate licence holders, and drive them out of the sport.

Bogwoppit

I’ve just put in a renewal and I left the dob for the landowner blank so I guess we’ll see how important it is soon.

The guard at the station went through the form to ensure all was filled out correctly and didn’t question that part.

They did ask at the end what the magazine capacity of the firearm, I replied “um… it’s there in the form… double barrel shotgun”

”So how many should I put down on the form for you?”

”it’s already in the form”

”I have to put down a note on the capacity on the front of the form”

”ok, it’s a double barrel shotgun”

”so how many should I put you down for?”

”right…. Sure put me down for 2 and let’s see how we get on”

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121682007#Comment_121682007

The man in my local gun shop was telling me that he has one customer that has a magazine capacity of 1 on a double barrel so is supposed to fire one shot at a time and has another customer that has an ammo limit of 5 for a shotgun. As he said himself it’d be like going into a shop to buy 5 fags.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121682007#Comment_121682007

Blow their minds and apply for THIS double-barrel shotgun...If I had some spare cash to hand...I would!

Standard Manufacturing Double barrel pump action

freddieot

A dB shotgun does not have a magazine ..so mag capacity zero...

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121656354#Comment_121656354

They really should have elaborated on 1(G)(i), as many could read that as apply to all scope unelss they know what 1(G)(i) saiys, or how to look it up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664239#Comment_121664239

I'd be of the same view as Cass and said that is how thermal works? Why do you think not? If the station said it's fine, your friend needs to get it in writing to cover his ass.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577841#Comment_121577841

On all my applications, I just put 5 for pistols and 10 for the rifles. Keeps it simple. I can then use a 5 or 10 round mag in the rifle.

Pistol is irrelevant as max is 5 anyway.

Munsterlad102

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121723131#Comment_121723131

Of course, but how long until AGS start restricting magazine limits to below 10 rounds or 5 rounds? It has been done before and I think it's going to be a matter of time before it happens again. Let's not forget the "pistol magazine capacity checks" a couple of years ago where someone had to sign over their pistol for seizure and destruction for owning a 10 round pistol magazine, which is not illegal to own. Even restricted pistol have been limited magazine capacities because the applicant doesn't use more than 6 rounds in a competition.

Judge O’Kelly renewed the licence on the condition that the magazine be plugged in four of the magazine limiter restricting bullets to six.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local-news/89184/Legislation-governing-guns-has-not-.html

A lot of gallery rifle competitions require less than 10 rounds. If AGS can, and have, restricted magazine capacity based on that fact, I think it's reasonable to assume that they can do it again.

Grizzly 45

Jeeze! Those battles in Limerick are over a decade old this year!!! Tempus does fugit.

Well,unless we stay on top of this sort of nonsense of AGS trying it on again on a local level,of course, it will happen! But they have really no grounds to do so as the CF mag capacity ban was an EU directive, which has been on mature legal reflection on accident or design, muffed here in Ireland, again and we already had the above ten-round ban for 22lr rifles. They would have to push against a High Court judgement [in our favour]on the .22 pistols/revolvers mag capacity being reduced further,as the EU /global norm is now ten PLUS in some .22 revolvers and pistols.

A lot of gallery rifle competitions require less than 10 rounds. If AGS can, and have, restricted magazine capacity based on that fact, I think it's reasonable to assume that they can do it again.

Would it not be smarter then to increase the round counts ...like now?... To head off such a possibility if it is a worry?

Let's not forget the "pistol magazine capacity checks" a couple of years ago where someone had to sign over their pistol for seizure and destruction for owning a 10-round pistol magazine, which is not illegal to own.

Which amounted to an absolutely nothing burger! Bar this one guy in Dublin who was caught originally that we know of,and only have a half story to go by. If it had been a multiple problem you can be sure AGS would have been crowing about it in the MSM and at the FEC last year.All they adopted there was their std "No to everything gun related!" stance around .22mags and their increase back to 10 . FIK I, and and another poster here on boards were checked by aGS.So I will assume many more were too around the country. However, in my case, my local FAO was clueless as to what he was looking for Yet again,I had to explain to LEP what they were supposed to be looking for,and he went away to check the other 3or4 or pistols in the district somewhat less confused.So how many other FAO's found themselves in the same position? We could have had gunny sacks full of 10-round mags behind the door while he examined my two five-rounders in my hall.

Even restricted pistols have limited magazine capacities because the applicant doesn't use more than 6 rounds in a competition.

NOPE! No such restriction exists and there are FIK some comps that DO use all ten

sniperman

anyone recently done a full/sub application and not included farmers dob?and if so had you any problems?thanks…reason for asking is a mate is about to do a sub .22 for new .22,and said he would feel a bit embarrassed asking for date of births as its women land owners he has the permissions, both widows

chris20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122070575#Comment_122070575

I did a renewal last month and didn't fill out the landowners DOB , Approval letter arrived with no issue, I just attached a copy of the permission letter with the address and phone number.

Bogwoppit

Recent renewal done too with no DOB

tonysopprano

Once again, these are new "rules", introduced in order to stymie, and trip you up and to get you to give up on your application. If you get these type of questions, just reply in writing and/or email, requesting the legislation that requires this information, and keep records of all correspondence.

The Firearms Act (bad as it is) , is also your back-up. Euro20(appeal) + 10 for registered post(to Super or Chief), and the NECK to stand up to them is all it costs.(Solicitor not needed). If you don't want to go this way, then you really never wanted to.

Rescueme0007

I'll be submitting an application for a new licence, for a firearm that's new to me but well over 20 years old. Apart from my own date of birth I have not included the DoB of either of my referee's nor the landowner. Suffice it to say they are all over 21 years old.

I recently had the Gardaí seek my DoB when I was reporting an obstacle on the public highway after storm Kathleen. What on earth justification is there for collecting such information? It all smacks of a pervasive attempt to restrain and infringe on our civil liberties (big brother is watching).

I for one will resist such an unwarranted intrusion.

sniperman

2 weeks now since mate sent in his .22 sub application without any birth dates etc,no phone calls yet,so maybe no news is good news,he said he will give it another week,then ring and see how its progressing,i know lads around the country are waiting awful long times,but here in nenagh,at least, me and a few others got full applications done in 3-4 weeks,one lad got a .22 license in 12 days,i got a 223 in 3 weeks,(thats before these new application forms were out) will be interesting to see how mate gets on without the birth dates,will update

Rescueme0007

Handed one in on Friday p.m. Garda at the desk, had a fairly intense review. Said we'll give you a call if we need any clarification. Here's hoping it's a smooth ride!

sniperman

update…well mate got the license today,delighted,2 1/2 weeks,did not fill in the farmers dob,but the s was not on the license,it was on the other one he substituted,has he being not now granted the moderator on this new .22?

Cass

If the "S" is not on the license then there is no authorisation for it.

However it may be a simple oversight so a call to his FO should solve it given he already had it.

sniperman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140709#Comment_122140709

thanks,well lucky he had the mod already sold and was planning to get a new one,he will be contacting the FO in next day or so,will update,thanks

sniperman

well folks,he got the second sub license today,but again there was no s.had the s on the first license,then subbed for a new one,(.22 lr for .22lr) got the license with no s,then sent in a letter to issuing super pointing out there was no s,today got the second one,with no s …..so does this mean he is now not allowed to have a silencer.?if so any ideas why is was not permitted on the new gun? or should he again contact super/fo.thanks

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271323#Comment_122271323

Contact the FO and see was the S marked on pulse first, it is not an unusual occurrence for a licence to be issued without the S in error.
After ascertaining whether it is a misprint or not then question the Super further as to why the silencer was refused, and if it is a misprint the FO will be able to initiate a reprint and you should have the new licence in a few days.

Cass

If the Mod was refused he is entitled to a refusal letter. One of the few entitlements we have in the process.

Rescueme0007

Eventually got my grant letter, one month to the day from submission. In the interim, I had a phone call from the station seeking the DoB of one of my referees. Eventually that was sorted out through "PULSE". Two weeks later a very pleasant Garda Sargent turns up at my door to check my "security" arrangements. This has been done previously on two occasions. Don't they keep any of the data from each inspection? A bit frustrating as I've had firearms for in excess of forty years. From speaking with the Garda a great deal of it is box ticking in Dublin. Hopefully it'll be much easier in December when my other firearms are due for renewal.