License required for Pard 007v?

6.5x55 seller ammo

Hi All,

Looking for some input on the adjustments to the licensing framework for NV / IR scopes. Given the Pard 007v and many others can operate in a handheld fashion, does this excluded them from the licensing requirements - provided you do not actually attach them to a scope / firearm?

Cheers for any thoughts!

TheEngineer1

I would be under the impression that if there are commercially available mounts for attaching it to a firearm then you need a restricted firearm cert for it.

tonysopprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058315361/license-required-for-pard-007v

How good will your barrister be?

Under defininitions,

Firearms,

such sight is defined as a firearm or component, in itself

(g) except where the context otherwise requires, any component part of any article referred to in any of the foregoing paragraphs and, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, the following articles shall be deemed to be such component parts:

(i) telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope sights with an electronic light amplification device or an infra-red device, designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b), (c) or (e),

meaning possession

and attachment to any of the following,

“firearm” means—

(a) a lethal firearm or other lethal weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged,

(b) an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such a muzzle energy,

(c) a crossbow,

(e) a prohibited weapon,

Cass

The legislation cites telescopic sights with such functions. So dedicated rifle scopes, whether attached to a firearm or not, that fall within the parameters of the legislation, are firearms and require the requisite Licensing.

Handheld units, when not mounted to a firearm, that are NOT telescopic sights, should not require the same licensing, but may require authorisation.

I say may because I won't committ to a definite that lads may take as Gospel and act upon. It is only an opinion based on my reading and interpretation of the law.

I would categorise them as:

1. Handheld, not attached to a firearm, no authorisation or Licensing needed.
2. Handheld unit attached/capable of being attached to a firearm, requires authorisation.
3. Dedicate telescopic scope, requires licensing regardless of whether it's mounted to a firearm or not.

So one and two would be your handheld spotters and add ons. Three would be a scope with crosshairs and everything a riflescope is along with nightvision, IR, laser range finder, etc capabilities built-in.

Once again, check, check and recheck for yourselves. It's my opinion only.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121157350#Comment_121157350

 The critical part wold appear to be "designed to be fitted to a firearm". So it feels more like an inherent property than how it is used.

And I agree with your warning, as there will be a grey area between dual use of handheld or capable of being fitted to a firearm.

freddieot

Again, not a lawyer, and just throwing this out there, but 'designed to be fitted to a firearm' seems to be the key phrase.

I know little about NV but I've had plenty of telescopic non NV units and they all have one thing in common. They are designed to be fitted to Mounts or Rings. The mounts or rings are designed to be fitted to the firearms. I know there are a few exceptions with integrated mounts.

Also, where are the terms 'designed' or 'Fitted to' defined ?

I can fit any sight to any rifle, including any handheld unit, with a variety of bits you can get and adapt from B&Q, so in theory anyway, any such device is restricted even the 30 euro ones from Lidl, or conversely, none of them are..with the exception of any with built in mounts....

I know some other units attach directly to ordinary scopes. Again, not 'fitted to' the actual firearm.

I doubt this what the lawmakers intended but it's the words that are critical, more so than the intent...

Also, if I fit a so-called 'designed to be fitted' NV to an airsoft rifle, under the current general thinking, it would make that not just a firearm, but a restricted firearm. I doubt the lawmakers intended that either, but again its the words that are important, more so than intent. I wonder did every airsoft owner in the country get a letter from DOJ/AGS to explain about this and that they must stay within the law, or as seems to be the case is the letter more targeted to our ranks.

This may be one for the legal experts but interested to hear the comments...

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121157879#Comment_121157879

I think it’s fair to say nobody is claiming to be a definitive expert. Just voicing opinion.

I know little about NV but I've had plenty of telescopic non NV units and they all have one thing in common. They are designed to be...fitted to the firearms

I think you’re only too focused on rifle scopes. Ignoring the NV aspect for now. Take a spotting scope and a rifle scope. Both are telescopic optical devices. But only the rifle scope is designed to be fitting to a firearm. Reticle, turrets, rings are all firearm specific design features. Binoculars and telescopes are other non firearm telescopic devices.

Now imagine all of those devices in a NV version. Still only one is “designed to be fitted”.

Also, where are the terms 'designed' or 'Fitted to' defined ?

Not being smart, but in the dictionary. In the absence of anything to the contrary, plain English applies. Both are pretty clear imo.

I can fit any sight to any rifle, including any handheld unit, with a variety of bits you can get and adapt from B&Q, so in theory anyway, any such device is restricted …

You could fit them. You could fit anything with the right tools. But they were not design for that. Therefore they are not restricted by existing.

I know some other units attach directly to ordinary scopes. Again, not 'fitted to' the actual firearm.

A bit tenuous. It’s “fitted to” the rifle indirectly. I mean you could claim that any scope is is fitted to the rings not the rifle - but I wouldn’t trust that logic.

Again, probs key comes down but the design. Is it a hand held NV device that happens to be able to attach to any eyepiece.

Or is it a firearms specific attachment. Designed with functions specifically for use with rifles. I suspects it a bit more clear with actual products.

6.5x55 seller ammo

Thanks all.

Probably best to hold off on ordering from EU store until a license is sorted.

Mississippi.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121160778#Comment_121160778

But you might need the serial number of it for the licence !

TheEngineer1

Is an important license also needed because it is legally a firearm?

tikka646

I wonder will the powers that be ever derestrict nv as the UK has. Nv is simply an advance in technology over lamps,its quite safe to use and nothing sinister about it.

tikka646

It also makes no sense that someone who has passed checks and is deemed safe to have firearms and ammunition is then having problems being allowed use a scope to hunt at night if that's their interest. I'm not into night shooting but lots are and it makes no sense.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121161224#Comment_121161224

I wonder will the powers that be ever derestrict

I'll stop you there and say, given every action by the state so far regarding civilian firearms, no, they will derestrict nothing.

The stated goal of the Dept of Justice which was in the FEC applicant's bumpf was essentially that the goal of the dept was to restrict the types of firearms available for licencing and the overall numbers of firearms in Ireland.

Really tells you all about their intent, and AGS too given the FEC was really their christmas list of "gimmes".

I would be less surprised if they went the opposite direction and completely restricted all NV/thermal, even handhelds.

tikka646

Unfortunately I think you're right,a few too many of this country's decision makers base their opinions on Hollywood espionage movies,nv,thermal,moderators (silencers) all bad.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121161632#Comment_121161632

And as we have seen utter misinformation and scare stories by both NPWS and AGS.Bulsht like you need specialist SF training to operate a thermal unit. In a Leopard 2 Main battle tank heading off to Ukraine no doubt, but if you can operate a modern cell phone, you are over qualified to programme and use a thermal/NV unit.

Anyhoo, hark back to when this act was written. The early 1990s and NV is starting to come out of the former Soviet Union and is being seen being used in the first Gulf war by both Colation and Iraquis..Expensive, a hunk of Wavin sewer pipe diameter units that are weapons mountable..that is the whole crux of this.Technology has surpassed legislation to shrink those units to multi-tasking, handheld, helmet-mounted,or optics-mounted units.

I would go by this. If it is a DEDICATED unit, yes it is a licensable unit

Hand held only NO

Head or helmet mounted NO

Handheld with an Installed adapter to scope mount it. PROABLY YES. However, just to point out that it would be virtually impossible to convict someone of having an unlicensed "restricted firearm" due to the fact this adapter is easily removed within seconds from both rifle scope and NV monocular and returns it to a NV monocular.You would have to be caught "inflagrante" with all 3units attached to your firearm for something to stick."Possession with intent "wouldn't work either as those adapters can just as easily be fit over a camera lens of the right diameter.

This is really the epitome of stupid firearms legislation,that should be rewritten to simply make this equipment a licensable component covered by any type of firearms cert. This was pretty much the situation until Ministerial meddling and AGS bad faith mussed up the whole thing.

deerhunter1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058315361/license-required-for-pard-007v

Yes you do

J s682

Has anyone any experience in applying for and being granted a license for use of a night vision scope here? Interested in hearing about people’s experiences with the process as I would like to apply for one myself. Tia

6.5x55 seller ammo

For anyone interested in my original question - FO has advised that a Pard 007V very much requires a licence.

Thanks for the discussion.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236368#Comment_121236368

Thanks for reporting back.

That makes sense given the above. That unit is clear designed (and marketed) specifically as a clip on scope.

Asus1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236368#Comment_121236368

So is it the same as a firearm licence where it goes for 3 years and costs 80 or is it added to your existing firearms licence the same way a moderator is.

Rescueme0007

Spoke a number of weeks ago with the Inspector dealing with my firearms licence. He indicated that the "sight electronic" was for the purposes of the legislation a firearm and requires licencing for itself. Therefore €80 every three years!