Cares Allowance Means Test Interrogations

WillYizCopOn

I expect I may not be the only one experiencing this. My wife is a carer for her 87 yr old Mother. I know the stress and emotional roller-coasting this causes my wife 365 days of the year. It's a tough and thankless job. She receives the Carers Allowance for this. This is means-tested (which I think is crazy). Recently we got a letter telling us we are being reviewed for this payment.

They sent out a form with many pages for us to fill out which we did. Then they were asking for bank statements. I sent them a screenshot of my online bank with the account the queried and had the current balance on it. That was rejected. They said they wanted 3 months statements. Then I was thinking, what business is it of theirs what we actually spend our money on, isn't that very personal.

So I did send on the statements with the transaction text redacted and the amounts left intact which I think is the only relevant part they should see. Its a numbers game is it not?

Once again it was rejected and they threatened to withdraw the allowance if we didn't dance to their tune in whatever key the choose to play it in and whenever they felt like playing it.

Now, our statement text is sadly very tame indeed. But what if someone had bought from di*do.com or po*n.com etc. You see where I'm coming from? Surely they should be spared the indignity of some 'pen pusher' at a Government office seeing that.

Basically I want to take a stand on this. To me this is bullying at the highest level.

Has anybody any good advise here. Anybody in a similar situation?

Str8outtaWuhan

Welcome to playing by the rules, OP. Unfortunately the state is not designed to support you or yours.

WillYizCopOn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576585#Comment_121576585

My wife cannot work in our current circumstances. The alternative is putting her Mother in a home at a huge weekly cost to the state (approx 1200 eur) as to 238 a week she get paid. This is not "money for nothing". Far from it. My wife would find a normal job way less stressful than the role she is filling now.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576585#Comment_121576585

That's silly. The state is supporting the OP, it's trying to make sure it can continue to do so by checking that the OP is in genuine need of the payment.

OP, what does it matter if someone you are never going to meet knows you bought a dildo or watched porn. Why would they care if someone they'll never meet does so?

Aren't you glad that the payment exists and isn't a much smaller amount due to them not giving it to people who can afford to do without?

Str8outtaWuhan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576669#Comment_121576669

Hence my comment. The state goes missing when hard workers need help. They'll grill you harder than the stasi.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058329826/cares-allowance-means-test-interrogations

The thing is the state didn't ask your wife to become a carer but they are willing to support her IF the conditions of the means test are met. Yes it would cost more for the state to look after her if she has no assets or savings but unfortunately this is not a valid argument for not wanting to comply with the rules.

They are not interested in individual purchases. They want to make sure that your wife is still eligible and entitled to the payment. So lets say your statement showed a lot more income than was declared on the application. This could be a problem.

We have gone through a review ourselves.

Eoinbmw

They are animals!

Similar experience here my wife who had to give up work to care for our profoundly disabled son has been selected for the same treatment!

I have been completely transparent with all information sent them all the correct documentation and evidence requested.

Going by the rules we are well inside the means to continue to receive the "support"

Yet they keep picking apart things like I once lodged a cheque I received in work and asked me to explain it! it was for 147 euro!

I made a payment through revolut to a work pal in relation to a social event so they requested a revolut statement even though I dont have a functioning revolut ac!

The review is still not finished its been going for 2 months or more!

The fact is we as a family a far more worse off financialy having to have one parent as a full time carer who is essentialy doing the full time work of a nurse and some!

WillYizCopOn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576674#Comment_121576674

Au contraire, we are actually supporting the State. As I said we could bung my MIL into a home and the State would have to fork out 1200 as opposed to 238. Eh who's supporting who?

Sonic the Shaghog

I know it's a pain but it's literally to make sure you aren't getting income from other sources and are over the threshold that's all.

Just type or hand right a letter explaining the transaction(s)

I remember being on the dole years ago and getting a letter to explain my own bank lodgements. Having to explain that the €200 odd I was lodging to my bank account was the same 200 I had to collect from the post office up the street as they wouldn't allow it to my account.

It's just some clerical officer making sure they have their paperwork right. It's stupid I know

billyhead

Op.

It's just to make sure all the Is are dotted and the Ts are crossed.

WillYizCopOn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576745#Comment_121576745

Well if you and the Government can work out that 1200 - 238 = a saving to to state of 962 a week, why is it means tested at all? (other than the fact that there is a person in need of caring)

Norrie Rugger Head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058329826/cares-allowance-means-test-interrogations

It's means tested??? Are they for **** real?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576807#Comment_121576807

You are missing the point. If you want to put MIL in state care nobody will say oh this will cost more. The state won't care and they won't lose any sleep over the cost.

They are interested however in undeclared income so it doesn't matter what you think you are saving the state.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576759#Comment_121576759

I get that the situation is frustrating, but the state is supporting you. just because you could make it more expensive to support you doesn't really mean anything apart from that you're a decent person.

You surely understand the purpose of this means test is to make sure that as much support as possible is available to those who need it - i.e. you and your family. In that light, surely you should support them being thorough, as there'd be less to go around if there was no means test?

The Phantom Jipper

I think the unredacted statements were requested to ensure you weren't artificially lowering the balance on the account with cash withdrawals or stashing in a revolut account etc. Doesn't make it any less annoying i'm sure but there has to be some sort of validation in place.

WillYizCopOn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576854#Comment_121576854

Well as it happens, there are groups/TDs and Councillors coming round to my way of thinking. Here is one report https://familycarers.ie/media/3116/estimating-the-cost-of-abolishing-the-carer-s-allowance-means-test.pdf. There are councillors on my local radio station regularly condemning what is going on here

Ginger83

I'm just as frustrated but my frustration is aimed at how little the payment is. I can understand the job seekers rate as this is a temporary payment but carer allowance can be very long term and the rate is insulting.

WillYizCopOn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576877#Comment_121576877

Please stop saying the Government is supporting us. It simple accountancy as already stated. It's the other way round. Even if I was a billionaire a billion times over it should make no difference to my wife getting this payment. She cannot earn her own money with the hours She does with her Mum. That right to go out and earn money is not there. It would be if She put her Mum in a home where the State would have to foot the care home bill. By doing the most caring and humane thing we are being shafted!!

Ezeoul

OP, DSP don't care what you spend your money on. That is not the purpose of asking to see bank statements.

The purpose is to determine that you have no other undeclared source of income.

I can tell you now, unless you comply, they will stop your wife's allowance.

The ball is in your court.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577011#Comment_121577011

You're not being shafted. You're being overly dramatic. You're being asked to show your means, to get a means-tested payment. You now say the state should support you, no matter how much you earn, which is silly.

The state will support you, but you must satisfy a means test. The state will also care for your mother if you can't or won't. Those two facts are not connected, no matter how much you'd like them to be.

You can get your payment once you do the necessary and provide the required information. No one will care about your dildos or porn or anything else, you need to stop taking the test personally as it is the same for everyone. And, more importantly, It is for all our benefit that they do the means test

Also, in point of fact, I never said the government support you. The government has no money, the state is you, me and everyone else - we are supporting you.

Eoinbmw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577061#Comment_121577061

Carers are supporting the state!

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577101#Comment_121577101

That's a nice slogan.

I certainly agree they are doing extremely important work, that is a very valuable contribution to our society. I'd definitely be in favour of more state support for them, both financial and non-financial.

WillYizCopOn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577058#Comment_121577058

They can see very well the debits and credits (in figures) over the last 3 months. No big withdrawals or lodgements. Its normal stuff like Tesco shopping a bit on amazon etc. I redacted this as I see that as not being relevant to the purpose of means testing. I have no problem if they asked me for details of a particular transaction. If you think I'm nit-picking, it's only because they are! And as I said previously I really don't think we should be means tested at all!!

WillYizCopOn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121576891#Comment_121576891

I'm open to them asking for detail on anything they regard suspicious. Doesn't mean they should have a panoramic view of my spending habits

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577115#Comment_121577115

But can you not see that that is not practical? If there's no means-test then there will be less money for you and others who truly need it, as the same amount will have to be spread to those who don't actually need it.

Also, if there is no means-test simply because you don't want to comply with their rules, then wouldn't it also be fair for me to remove other requirements I didn't like? I work and also spend a lot of time caring for my elderly parents, why don't I get the same amount as a full-time carer, why would we keep that rule but not the one you don't like.

Silly, no?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577011#Comment_121577011

If you and your wife were billionaires you would have the means to support yourselves and would not be eligible for state support.

If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about. If you are not happy ask the state to mind mammy and the wife can go to work

WillYizCopOn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577137#Comment_121577137

You don't get it. This is not about needing it. It's about earning it. So by that reasoning anyone should only get paid what we need not what we are worth?? I shouldn't say that too loud cuz they'll be at that next.

So how do you work? Where do you get the time to do both. One must suffer!!

WillYizCopOn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577173#Comment_121577173

I have nothing to hide but I do have strong principles. As for your second statement: The Government knows well that if you apply for Carers Allowance you are a caring person as my wife is. Our option is by far the most difficult. The other option is that we would be richer, my wife way less stressed but her Mother dumped in a home. We are compassionate people. The Gov are simply preying on compassionate people!! Easy pickings

Eoinbmw

Being a full time carer is a bloody job and a full time job at that it's a disgrace that you are means tested to get paid for it!

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577183#Comment_121577183

Ok so it's about earning it. If you were a billionaire, it would be much less of a hardship for your family for one of you to care for your relative, than it is now. In that case would you not be doing less to earn it?

Similarly, if you had to work three jobs so your wife was able to mind someone full time would you not be earning it more?

Isn't that just another argument for a means test?

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121577115#Comment_121577115

Lets deal with the here and now.

Currently the payment is means tested, and unfortunately, the applicant doesn't get to decide what is relevant to the means test / review or what the qualifying criteria is. DSP do.

And again, they don't care what you spend in Tesco, or on Amazon. It's lodgements they look at.

Currently, your choices here are either cooperate and give them what they need to process your application (or review) or lose the allowance. It's really that simple.

No amount of arguing back and forth or railing against DSP's processes will change that.

Best of luck.