Meanwhile on the Roads...

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124020762#Comment_124020762

What Morris didn't mention was the drivers were also distracted by phones and speeding, likely if they had not been doing either, they would not have hit the kerbs. In much the same way when driving down my laneway, I don't hit the ditch despite it being far narrower than the single lane on that road.

People always have excuses, and sadly in Ireland, excuses are all you need. If a person cannot see or avoid those kerbs, traffic islands etc, then they should not be driving. I would have been embarrassed beyond words if I had flatted my tyre by hitting a kerb on that road, the fact that people reported it without shame shows who truly unashamed they are of their inability to drive appropriately on the roads.

Large bottle small glass

There was an issue with the kerbs used to protect bicycles lanes when first introduced in Cork city

There was lots of pedestrians tripping some of whom got injured and some of the injured group claimed against the City Council.

Two things happened

1. People got used to the new infrastructure
2. High court judgement killed the old claims and stopped any future claims.

Now nobody talks about it.

Over the years I've come across two instances where communities lose all perspective of changes to their built environment.

One was a traffic calming scheme on the Marlifield road in Clonmel, which was basically a lane width reduction, one of the primary controls recommended in the TII urban Design manual.

Cue complete mania until it was stopped and replaced with **** ramps, the speed control favourite of the masses.

The other was a meeting in relation to a win farm proposal/planning application.

Suffice to say, in seeing fear and disinformation spread I got an idea of how the witch burning of the middle ages took hold. 😄

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124020661#Comment_124020661

Missing this?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124020762#Comment_124020762

unfortunately google street view of the road is over a year old, but looking at the 'before' image suggests an R road which is much wider - and straighter - than many N roads i've driven on. assuming i have the right location, but this is the R448 near moone:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Timolin,+Co.+Kildare/@52.9753753,-6.8173174,3a,75y,16.4h,79.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sadlCdjPocfFi2M4GRHPD2g!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D10.875999046736325%26panoid%3DadlCdjPocfFi2M4GRHPD2g%26yaw%3D16.40321654209098!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x485d6303a2e39f7b:0xa00c7a997322630!8m2!3d52.9849389!4d-6.8100694!16s%2Fm%2F04f6fj9?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTEyMy4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

tabby aspreme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124020661#Comment_124020661

There are 4 different types of road/cycle lane layout in the 3 km stretch, which is leading to a lot of the confusion, it's only in the past few weeks that the road markings went in which have improved the safety, it seems they're making some of it up as they go, with kerbs and markings being changed continuously, the initial design of the entry at either end was too narrow for trucks and farm machinery to pass when meeting, and had to be completely dug up and replaced 2 meters wider, I'd drive the road regularly and it was widely used by walkers and runners as part of a 5km loop but that's no longer the case, Tii say they will observe the cyclists and motorists when it's finished but I think the cyclists will be very scarce

tabby aspreme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124021463#Comment_124021463

It was the N9 until recently, now it's the R448

nilhg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124021463#Comment_124021463

That's it, but you have to remember it was the old N9 and also that it was built (not long before the M9) to take traffic out of the villages of Moone and Timolin. Because it was an N road there are no dwellings on the stretch of road that's being used for the trial and because of the untolled M9 close by it was relatively traffic free.

Mefistofelino

https://www.rte.ie/news/2025/1126/1546055-marcella-duffy-court/

Martin Nolan. Unfukkenbelievable.

Cookie_Monster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124021848#Comment_124021848

Nolan... fully believable and predictable

How he still holds the job is beyond me

magicbastarder

"It seems to me for whatever reason, she lost control and allowed her car to stray," said the judge.

god forbid the court should make it its business to actually ask or try to determine what happened.

tabby aspreme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124021593#Comment_124021593

There's about 12 houses that access that stretch of road

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124022169#Comment_124022169

"However, she had spent the previous night in hospital with her son, leaving there at 9am, before hitting Mr Walsh in her car about 30 minutes later. The court heard alcohol was tested for and was not a factor, nor was mobile phone use

Eoin Lawlor SC, for Duffy, suggested tiredness was a factor in his client’s driving. He said spending a night in hospital was “a tiring event”. He also said Duffy was very remorseful"

https://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/no-jail-time-for-driver-who-killed-ucd-rider-john-walsh-while-he-was-out-for-spin/?fbclid=IwY2xjawOUYlpleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBicmlkETFmaEl2SEg2QkZQRW1QUEdzc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHkmiFGcQSbgmmfK0J9-L-ZUUzs4ue4EFqznYBOvG72w0pDTZ8TEXdQzBfXli_aem_bQrPdJPRQtlrfnfKOykG7g

fat bloke

No mincing of words or ambiguity in the Stickybottle headline and article. Fair play to them.

Large bottle small glass

She decided to chance driving home after being all night awake in hospital.

That's clearly an intent to do something a regular person would know is putting others at risk.

I don't know how much alcohol would equate to the equivalent effect on a driver in terms of concentration/reaction/likelihood of falling asleep but it's not zero and it's likely to be at least the legal level of alcohol.

Yet there is no effective penalty.

Other than valuing the Deceaseds life, jailing Defendant sends a clear message to everyone that falling asleep and killing someone leads to jail time in

Mefistofelino

Even RTE's own reporting is appalling, saying he "died following a collision with a car on the road" as if he had run into a parked vehicle.

loyatemu

Nolan effectively shrugging his shoulders and saying it's just one of those things. Nothing the cyclist could have done to mitigate risk here, what can you do about a car going in the opposite direction veering across the road and ploughing into you. What a sh!tshow.

fat bloke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124022357#Comment_124022357

The worst thing about that is that any possible public service messaging or learning is lost as well. None of the reporting explicitly says. "She was tired. She fell asleep. She should not have been driving. Sleep kills." Etc.

Only 1 person has learned anything, and as Nolan says she is unlikely to reoffend. But there is no one else in the country less likely to do the same.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124020837#Comment_124020837

that right there is my single biggest gripe with cycle lane design. And if I’m not using an available cycle lane, that’s almost always the reason why

fat bloke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124022617#Comment_124022617

Indeed. And it also erroneously teaches motorists that they have the right of way turning off the road. So then when you're on a road without a cycle path, or just a painted line, motorists will turn left with impunity.

It's a right of way that I always exert myself, walking or cycling. Obviously I won't walk right out in front of a car, but I'll go as if to and challenge the driver to stop. "Eeeyyyy, Ah'm walkin' 'ear…. !!!" etc

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124022661#Comment_124022661

I can only imagine the looks of shock and disgust you must get given the complete lack of education on how to use the roads in this country. I doubt even 5% of them see the issue.

nilhg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124022201#Comment_124022201

Not on the section with the works though?

tabby aspreme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124022707#Comment_124022707

Yes, take a look on Google maps

loyatemu

leaving aside the discussion about the merits of jailing her, I strongly feel anyone convicted of DDD should lose their license permanently. If you can't drive a car without killing another person, you have no right to drive. She'll potentially be back on the road within 3 years (I don't know how judges treat applications from people with this specific conviction, but I do know "50% remission" is basically the default for a lot of driving bans)

Mefistofelino

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124022762#Comment_124022762

Problem is - at least from what you'd see on the Garda Roads Policing Twitter, or occasionally in court reports - the more egregious the offence, the more likely that the offender is going to pay precisely zero attention to an actual ban.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124022762#Comment_124022762

You can't complain about deaths on the road and simultaneously not jail people doing the killing because they are a nice old dear.

Nolan is similar age to Defendant and very likely put himself in her shoes.

The threat of jail to company owners/supervisors in large companies along with Draconian fines based on turnover changed the safety culture on construction sites in Ireland.

Lots of deaths/serious injuries are caused by ordinary people with bad habits. Only a small number are going to be repeat offender that it's easy to "hate".

Sometimes we have to see the full picture and make hard calls.

Lifetime driving bans would be a starting point

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124022778#Comment_124022778

I had a neighbour who was such a scumbag. Killed a child pushing his bike.

He got jail but was released very early. Just started driving when he got back. Gardai/state didn't have the stomach for it and he never went back to jail and wasn't off the road for anything near his ban length.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124022268#Comment_124022268

this is the thing which always has me in two minds (maybe i should say suffering from cognitive dissonance) about the situation.

what she did was probably repeated up and down the country by dozens or hundreds of motorists every day. her 'crime' was being unlucky; everyone else got away with it through nothing but sheer chance. society accepts that driving is just a given, that the vast majority of us have access to an activity which can result in the death of others with a 'simple' lapse.

one hypothetical example i've used before is; let's say i'm driving home and someone runs out in front of me and i kill them. the situation is unavoidable from my POV (or at least that's how the law would treat it). but now repeat the exact same scenario, but with me with three pints in; i still have no chance to avoid the collision, and my lack of sobriety has no bearing on the outcome. but now i'd probably be prosecuted for dangerous driving causing death or similar. we're punishing the outputs but not the inputs.

as said, it's cognitive dissonance so i've no real point or conclusion to make.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124022836#Comment_124022836

I push someone in a bar and they fall and look stupid.

In a parallel universe they fall and hit their head and die. I get prosecuted for manslaughter.

Right or wrong the criminal justice system deal with outputs all the time.

Jailing people like defendant isn't just about her. Part of it should be moving the dial in the perception of what leads to incarceration

JMcL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124020837#Comment_124020837

Never mind Britain, it's the law here, from the Road Traffic Act

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print#article8

8 (Yielding Right of Way) - (3) A driver of a vehicle approaching a road junction shall yield the right of way to another vehicle which has commenced to turn or cross at the junction in accordance with these Regulations and to a pedestrian who has commenced to cross at the junction in accordance with these Regulations.

No idea if the Ballina comic represents this in any meaningful way and you can bet it's not enforced (unless maybe it's a Guard on foot/bike)

magicbastarder

i think the difference in britain is that the 'commenced to cross' is not necessary for the pedestrian there now; that if the pedestrian has not commenced to cross in ireland, they do not have right of way.

though as per my original comment, i'm not sure i'm correct on this!

MojoMaker

How was mobile phone usage ruled out?

Hopefully not by looking at activity on the phone app on the phone - as in making/receiving calls, because that's probably 5% of the use cases for a phone in a car these days.