Meanwhile on the Roads...

Paddigol

Don't want to clog up the 'Journalism' thread so thought I'd start a new one to highlight issues on the roads, which we all use and share, which impact us as road users but which don't relate solely/ directly to cycling. The most obvious being the likes of the following;

One person arrested every hour for drink or drug-driving over Christmas (msn.com)

Hopefully this thread will help to put the whinging about two-abreast into perspective.

Paddigol

As mentioned on the 'Journalism and Cycling' thread... Pedestrian hit by car becomes seventh death on Ireland’s roads this year (breakingnews.ie)

I'd forgotten just how bad the stats were back in the lack 90s/ early 00s. Nearly 500 deaths alone... absolute carnage.

Mefistofelino

For those of us even older, the death toll was over 600 in the late 70's - and that was with somewhere between one-quarter and one-third of the numbers of cars we have now.

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121585735#Comment_121585735

1972 was peak, 640 was the number.

Considering the cost of petrol, driving patterns, car ownership numbers it was a really deadly time to use the roads. I think there was 150 pedestrian deaths that year. Life is cheap in poorer less developed economies

https://maps.app.goo.gl/bALCgm8nNr19PvRy8

There's the cross for one pedestrian from that year, who was walking his bike home from the nearby pub.

Myself and my brother gave up doing the grass cutting around it such is the danger, inspection of multiples cones, high vis, flashing light.

There has been 3 fatalities between that cross and the next junction about 1km eastbound since 1972

Macy0161

I'm more stunned they were actually pulled....

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2024/0105/1424987-waterford-driver/

fat bloke

I was in rural Clare over Christmas and a common consensus was: have the drinks and drive away home because the chances of meeting a squad car were nil. The enforcers have fallen asleep at the wheel and human nature has done what it does. 🙁

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121589598#Comment_121589598

Yeah, it does seem that way. Whether it's perception bias or what, I dunno, but I seem to remember there being much more of a worry about being caught by checkpoints/ garda speed checks, speed cameras etc years ago. But then, that also coincides with the same period of late 90s/ early 00s when road fatalities were much higher.

Meanwhile, grimly, I see we're now 8 from 8... Woman (50s) dies in Co Sligo crash (msn.com)

JMcL

It's subjective but I really found the standard of driving particularly in the week before Christmas to be appalling - even by fairly low Irish standards. I aborted a planned spin one morning for a shorter but quieter route as there was all sorts of f**kwitery going on - the usual close, careless passes, MGIF, and overtaking on blind bends into heavy oncoming traffic. And it wasn't all headless chicken private motorists - a lot were "professional" van drivers.

To tie in with all the talk about sorting out and reducing speed limits - while I fully support it (if only for the hope that one or more Realy-Hae might explode from apoplexy) it's all for nothing if not enforced and backed up by sanctions

Junior

Last weekend I witnessed one car driving erratically, speeding, all sorts of dangerous driving. I rang the nearest Garda station, and literally the second question was "was I prepared to make a formal statement in court". Not where, who, when, what for. A little hurdle in the way to stop the report being made.

magicbastarder

i'd argue that's useful for the garda to hear though, before proceeding with the details - because if the accused driver decides to challenge it, and you're not willing to appear in court to testify, the case against them will probably collapse.

the court cannot hand down a conviction based on an eyewitness account where the eyewitness is not willing to testify; that's fairly basic.

Paddigol

‘80km speed limit, no footpath and roaming goats’ – roads in Dublin Mountains aren’t safe enough (msn.com)

“Our rural roads are heavily used by cyclists, many travelling very fast, so a combination of this and [quieter] electric cars leaves many residents fearful trying to get out of their lanes or driveways as they can’t hear any oncoming traffic.

“During the pandemic, many people didn’t seem to be aware of how dangerous these roads could be. There are no footpaths and I often saw families walking two and three abreast."

Sooooo... drivers are speeding on country roads, but the problem is cyclists and locals walking up to three - three!!! abreast? Not the most coherent of - probably well meaning - rants by this councillor. She seems to be implying that the speed limit should be reduced to something slower than that which the fast cyclists are travelling at... so, what, 30kmph? Wait til Pat Kenny hears about this!

Junior

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591512#Comment_121591512

I would suggest that when a crime is being committed it's more relevant to get details, of where, when, what, first and then check will the person be okay to take this formally.

magicbastarder

the other details are usually a given; whether the car was red or green will not make or break a case. whether a witness is willing to potentially appear in court can make or break the case when the only evidence is eyewitness testimony, so is probably more important to establish first than when or where it happened.

you'll probably find the gardai have dealt with plenty of reports where the 'reporter' didn't think through that their word alone in a garda station would be enough; and a case was taken and the person said 'whoah, i didn't know i'd have to appear in court', thus having wasted everyone's time.

ballyharpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121592118#Comment_121592118

I think what the poster means is, they would be more concerned about getting the driver off the road ASAP, worry about bring proceedings later, for now, find out where the driver is and the details of the vehicle.

I've done this before, on one occasion the gardai took the details of the car and headed against it, as I saw them going out that direction, I later saw the car parked (badly). I rang the station, they sent someone down and found the driver, it turns out it was an elderly person whose partner had died and they felt they needed to drive to town every day- The only way to prevent an accident was for the driver to be put off the road immediately. The guards asked if I would appear in court, I said I would, but I would prefer for them to explain to the driver that it would be in their interest not to drive. They got back to me a few days later and said that the persons daughter had spoken to them and had explained it to them, so they would no longer be driving.

On another occasion, I was driving behind a driver swerving, I rang the gardai and stayed following the car, I stayed on the phone with them while they directed a traffic corps in my direction, once they were in sight of the car, I peeled off, I did not follow up on what happened, but that was how I expect these things to be handled.

magicbastarder

Rereading Junior's original post, I may have misunderstood. I had read it that he rang them after the fact, rather than as it was happening. I would agree that if the latter was the case, they should have despatched a car straight away.

If he rang after the fact, the question is sensible.

cletus

I rang the local Garda station during the summer, while watching a fella doing doughnuts in a BMW at the edge of the village in the middle of the day.

The Garda station is less than half a mile from where it was happening.

Instead of the Garda I spoke to driving out to the scene, he asked me every conceivable question he could, including whether or not I knew the guy driving. Some questions he asked twice.

When I suggested that if he drove out now he'd see it himself, he ignored it. When I told him my wife was currently recording it on her phone, he ignored it.

I had to ask him at the end of the call whether he wanted my name and number.

magicbastarder

Mentioned before here that I once rang the Garda station in Ashbourne after we happened on the scene of a collision which had closed a busy enough road. We were 4km from Ashbourne. They told us to ring Balbriggan which was (I think) 19km away because where we were was under the responsibility of Balbriggan.

That was probably 12 or 15 years ago at a guess.

MojoMaker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121594863#Comment_121594863

Miami Vice style!

TinyMuffin

Rte should run a few adds on how to correctly use pedestrian crossings. Had a close call over the Xmas with a lad just stepping out onto 1 without stopping or looking. On phone of course.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595245#Comment_121595245

A zebra crossing? I would always take it that it is the responsibility of those on the road to judge the likliness of it happening and adjust their speed and behaviour as if it was going to happen. I know technically the rule is that they don't have right of way until a foot is on it but that could happen as you are about to cross it and it is instantaneous, same as approaching a light that is green since you first saw it. (Don't confuse me, I always look because you can't trust others). If I was on a bike, I move to the right of the lane as well. And don't get me started on cars just ploughing through or even stopping on the Zebra crossing in heavy traffic.

casion3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121591440#Comment_121591440

I 100% agree.

Changing all the speed limits in the country is an expensive a lengthy process.

The law change won't get through the Dail before end of year and then the county councils will have to change all the impacted signage.

Meanwhile the existing speed limits go unenforced. I remember when the speed vans were out 1st you couldn't go anywhere without seeing one. Now its a lottery if you are going to get a speeding fine or not. And the odds are in your favor if you speed.

Meanwhile driving standards are got the Sh*t, phone use, fog lights on in perfect conditions, no fog lights on in fog, no lights at all on at dusk early morning, no indicators, driving in the overtaking lane...…. If the simple things were enforced then we would have some chance of the death rate going down.

Instead of a national slowdown day every bank holiday maybe we should have a national cop on day where guards actually pulled people over rather than parking their car on the side of a motorway.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595245#Comment_121595245

That might have been on you!

JMcL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595233#Comment_121595233

Many moons ago I had a run in with some gobshite in a van coming through Christchurch. I let the first one go (he cut me off in the bike lane on High St), but when he did it again aggressively going round the cathederal I had words where he verbally threatened me. I went to Pearse St station to report him (armed with reg, physical description, and detail of the exchange) and could actually see the relief spread over the guards face when he informed me that I had to report it in Kevin St given where it happened 🤬

Macy0161

People driving are supposed to slow down approaching zebra crossings. And should let people waiting cross. Stepping on the crossing means they have to stop, but it's not either step on or plough through!

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595735#Comment_121595735

100% but some take it like a either/or and just plough on unless it will definetly be a strike. I have seen people drive through when a lollipop person was standing on the road so my faith in people to do the right thing is somewhat diminished.

Paddigol

I drive a good bit down around Laois/ Offaly... have cycled from the East Coast out there too a few times... going by the overtakes I've experienced on 2 and 4 wheels this report doesn't surprise me a bit...

Emergency helicopter deployed as car flips over hedgerow in Laois crash | Independent.ie

Junior

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595186#Comment_121595186

No, while it was in progress in front of me.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595734#Comment_121595734

I heard from a Garda who is dealing with some complaints that I submitted via TrafficWatch that progress has been slow, because she needs to find time to travel out to the commuter towns outside Dublin where the drivers in question are based.

When I asked about the possibility of the Garda who are based in those commuter towns making the necessary contacts with the drivers, she said that's not how things are done.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597439#Comment_121597439

In my experience, if I make a statement in my local station, they will pass it over to the relevant station for their attention. Surely TW follow ups would follow the same approach rather than the wasteful one you mention AJR?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597468#Comment_121597468

The incidents were in Dublin, so were allocated to a Dublin station. The drivers involved were based in commuter towns, so apparently the Dublin Garda has to go out to the commuter town to land on those driver's front door, rather than getting a local Garda to call to the driver.

elchupanebrey

If it was someone in Dublin for the day from north donegal or belmullet, for example, would they spend the full day driving out and back to question them. It'd be interesting to know

ballyharpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595242#Comment_121595242

haha, sometimes you just feel like doing something a bit different-I never got a call back and to help them in other pursuits though- very disappointing haha

Dr_Colossus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597514#Comment_121597514

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597989#Comment_121597989

Ha, had similar happen a couple of years ago regarding a van driver on the Dublin north quays who left hooked me and made contact. Came up along side and just turned, no indicator etc, I stayed upright but had to turn with the van and then stopped while he continued on. Reported it to TrafficWatch with all the details and about 6 weeks later got a call from a Garda in Brideswell who said he was assigned to the case.

Said no CCTV footage was now available (well wouldn't expect there to be after 6 weeks) and he advised I should report future incidents to the relevant station directly rather than going through TrafficWatch. To really cap thing off he then said the van was registered to a driver down the country and there was little he could do. I asked if that gives a driver carte blanche to commit offenses outside of his jurisdiction and he had no reply. In other words his curtesy call was just a PFO and he had no more interest in pursuing the case than the rats swimming the Liffey.

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597514#Comment_121597514

That's strange. We had an incident on a club spin a few years ago involving a very aggressive cattle truck driver on a narrow rural road. I contacted Traffic Watch and they took the details and said it would be assigned to the nearest Garda Station (which was Ashbourne). Several hours later I got a call from a Garda in Ashbourne to tell me that he had located the driver and had words with him.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602003#Comment_121602003

Did the garda offer the option of taking it further given that he had already spoken with the driver?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602003#Comment_121602003

If the driver is local to the area of the incident, that seems to be how it works.

If the driver isn't local to the area of the incident, it seems that the local guard has to travel out of area to progress the report, which seems crazy.

Paddigol

Unbelievable.

Talented young GAA player caught driving carelessly was goaded by youths in the car (msn.com)

Yes, that's the kind of driver we need on our roads. Where of course the real problem is a lack of hi viz on pedestrians and cyclists two-abreast. But he needs the car to get to training, sooooo... nothing to see here.

I suppose it helps explain why the average Garda is so often minded to look the other way or be completely disinterested when receiving a complaint. All that hassle to go to court for a "tut tut but good luck in the junior b county final" from the court.

ednwireland

Hopefully this thread will help to put the whinging about two-abreast into perspective

seriously unlikely

ARX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121605566#Comment_121605566

Sadly, it's not just believable but as unsurprising as rain in Galway.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121605566#Comment_121605566

The headline doesn't even come close to covering what he done:

• driving at speed in an estate
• Speeding in a town
• Running a red light at speed
• then ran from the gardai

F*ck me, presuming it was taxed and insured (as neither are mentioned), why did he run. He was either a moron or upto something else, both of which mean he should be off the road but somehow careless driving was all he got.

Seth Brundle

...all to impress some lads "who he did not know that well"

magicbastarder

why am i reminded of the recent article in the IT which reports that research has shown that kids in private schools are much more badly behaved than kids in public schools.

'promising young GAA star' seems to be a get out of jail free card.

eeeee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121605566#Comment_121605566

That's outrageous. Racing from a gard, speeding in a housing estate, running a red light, dumping the car and running from said gards after initiating a chase.

And he gets away with license, no ban (even temporary), no points, no conviction cos 'the other people made me do it' and they can play GAA.

Fcuk me what is the point.

dahat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121606064#Comment_121606064

Toerags with money are the worst kind.

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602102#Comment_121602102

I can't recall now but I think I was happy enough that he had been spoken to. (Not that I had any proof that the Garda did actually contact him).

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121612114#Comment_121612114

This is a big part of the problem. It's just too easy for a Garda to spoof the complainant.

In the UK, they generally issue a written update on the outcome, which would give me a lot more confidence than the usual rushed phone call.

Paddigol

I had to chuckle on Leeson St. bridge this morning... Gardai manning every corner of the bridge (presumably for some reason to do with Chinese fella over for a visit and a Guinness), yet not a blink out of any of them as car after car brazenly skips through the red lights.

But yeah, bloody cyclists.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627680#Comment_121627680

And presumably not a word when drivers block the pedestrian / cycle crossing because they are completely surprised to find that a green light has turned amber/red.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627732#Comment_121627732

Obviously not.

Paddigol

This story... Wexford gardaí seize artic truck being operated by driver on expired provisional licence (msn.com)

particularly disturbing in light of

this incident... Banned truck driver who hit cyclist causing her catastrophic injuries is jailed (msn.com)

Paddigol

Alarm over road deaths surge as one county equals its total 2023 fatalities in just 21 days | Independent.ie

Edit: Meanwhile... Motorist arrested for drink driving after overtaking Garda car on 'icy' roads (msn.com)