The UK had to come to Ireland's aid as a Russian submarine was 'hovering' 12 miles from Cork harbour

Kiteview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499129#Comment_121499129

Option 3 does not give the same result as option 2.

Neutrality is a strictly defined term in international law and option 3 is utterly incompatible with it.

Neutral countries are strictly prohibited from entering into formal or informal arrangements where other countries will defend them (since such arrangements are basically defence alliances and hence incompatible with being neutral).

In addition, for us, choosing option 3 is effectively publicly declaring that we are to all intents and purposes basically a “devolved region” of the U.K. - like Wales only with a lot of pretence about being “independent”.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499034#Comment_121499034

Yeah, I’m sure they’re looking at our crumbling health, education, housing sectors and wondering how they can get that

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499087#Comment_121499087

I think you overestimate Ireland on the world stage. We’re a nothing country in the grand scheme of things.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510409#Comment_121510409

How was NATO encircling Russia, please explain?

Last I checked Ukraine isn’t in NATO, so by Putin stupidly invading Ukraine he would have pushed Russia closer to NATO borders in Poland for example.

Genius chess move there Vlad…

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499108#Comment_121499108

Defending what exactly?? Do you think they’re suddenly gonna invade? And as per the OP story, they were in international waters.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510413#Comment_121510413

What about Georgia? I’d go as far as saying they are a nothing country compared to Ireland on the world stage.

Still didn’t stop Russia and Putin invading Georgia..

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510420#Comment_121510420

Yep, just coincidental…….

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510486#Comment_121510486

Pan the map out and the obviousness of your misrepresentation becomes clear.

The encirclement was always a Russian propaganda lie. It was an obvious lie then and becomes all the more obvious now when they strip forces from NATO bordering territory to move to Ukraine.

This isn't even very good Russian propaganda, but I suppose that's the level they pitch at.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510486#Comment_121510486

What the **** sort of BS map is that?

Where’s the “encirclement”???

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505598#Comment_121505598

I wonder why specialist Russian vessels have loitered over the sub-sea cable off Galway, and the Russian sub hover just outside Cork Harbour

Nothing at all to do with the fact "about three-quarters of all cables in the northern hemisphere pass through or near Irish waters, most off the southwest coast and some off the northwest coast. These cables carry 97% of global communications, including financial transactions, business operations, and everyday internet access.".

Like the drunk Uncle at the wedding, singing "ah sure it'll be grand", we're not the weakest link, certainly not.

TokTik

Got it.

Russia bad. US good.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497307#Comment_121497307

These Russian bombers, that fly without their transponders on through commercial air lanes, are tracked from the minute they leave Russian airspace.

as they progress, each country they fly close to sends up jets and then hands over to the next airforce. The RAF pick them up north as they approach the north of Scotland, track them down to the channel where the French take over and then the Spanish. That’s usually where they turn around and head home, so the whole thing happens again in reverse.

the only country that doesn’t participate is Ireland, because Ireland does not have any military aircraft capable of flying that high and that fast.

it’s embarrassing.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512314#Comment_121512314

You must be very self conscious if a small country like Ireland not sending planes on pointless journeys burning pointless fuel embarrasses you.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512314#Comment_121512314

I hope it doesn't keep you from sleeping at night.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512327#Comment_121512327

It isn’t pointless though. These bombers are a danger to commercial traffic.

the Russians doing it is pointless, it is effectively just trolling, but not being able to track them as they fly through some of the busy commercial air lanes in the world is a real danger.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512374#Comment_121512374

Do you think they are going to intentionally hit other planes, you do realise planes have other forms of navigation other than transponders.

Grassy Knoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512374#Comment_121512374

90% of North American- EU air traffic passes through our air space and we have Russian fairly regularly flying up and down our West Coast ‘off radar’. As has been mentioned they have separately been up to mischief off our coast. For a wealthy country this dereliction of our responsibility is not tenable IMHO

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512395#Comment_121512395

Oh, that’s alright then. Having wide bodied passenger aircraft with hundreds of passengers onboard playing dodgems with nuclear capable bombers is grand, because they won’t actual collide.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512433#Comment_121512433

You are fairly dramatic,I am sure the Russians will stay out of the path of the others unless their intention is to ram them which would be a fairly stupid waste,we should have transponders on cars so it would be safe for you to drive.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512374#Comment_121512374

Hold on, you can’t say they’re tracked from the minute they leave Russian airspace in one post and then state that they cannot be tracked in another. Which is it?

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512483#Comment_121512483

i didn’t think of that. Maybe they should scrap speed limits on the roads as well, I mean why put safety rules in place when we can just rely on people avoiding each other and not causing accidents.

what could go wrong.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512840#Comment_121512840

They are picked up on military radar and physically tracked by fighter jets, who do have their transponders on so civil radar can track them

how do people not know this?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/russian-bombers-in-irish-airspace-for-second-time-in-days-1.4200213

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512971#Comment_121512971

So they can be tracked.

vsat1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512395#Comment_121512395

I think it's the unintentional hitting you need to worry about more so.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510421#Comment_121510421

Defending our territorial integrity. No, of course I don't think they were or are going to invade, but I don't think that means we shouldn't bother having the resources to put up even a token defence if it ever came to it.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513600#Comment_121513600

What's with the new accounts so worried about this topic 😕😕

sandbelter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513347#Comment_121513347

By military radar and AWAC based surveillance systems none of which Ireland possesses, so no Ireland wouldn't have a clue if it's Santa Claus, migrating Geese or Russian Bombers.

If the Russians have no transponders switched on then they are blind to civil aviation....in turn if a business jet or civil airliners don't have their transponders on then all bets are off. History has shown time and time again when ships/plane grope around oblivious to each other.

Russian military aircraft have nearly collided passenger jets in the past. This example from 2014 when a SAS jet and Russian military nearly collided.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/sweden-says-russian-military-jet-in-near-collision-with-passenger-plane

Finally there is misunderstanding about NATO ability or even inclination to help Ireland which needs to be cleared up. Treaties are triggered by victim of an attack, not the perpetrator.

If country A decides to attack Ireland (take your pick as to who A is) none A's allies are treaty bound to come to it's assistance in helping invade Ireland.

if Ireland then hits back at A, again none of its allies are obliged to assist.....as Ireland is acting in self defence to unprovoked aggression.

Lets assume NATO does assist (big assumption given that not assumed either Hungary or Turkey will be inclined to support any NATO involvement)...after all why would they come to the rescue of a country that wouldn't defend it's self and risk getting their cities nuked and their sons killed for a country that sanctimoniously lectures them on judicial and LGBT rights and has an aggressive beggar thy neighbour tax policy?

if NATO does attack country A even whilst attacking Ireland, then this is a unprovoked attack on A by NATO (specifically as NATO's not treaty bound to come to Ireland's assistance) and in this event A's allies now are now obliged to comes to it's assistance....in short escalation. We saw this mechanism most simply in WW1.

Escalation is the reason US and UK assistance ain't going to happen.

The world looked the other way when Nuclear armed US invaded Iraq, when nuclear armed Russia invaded Ukraine, and nuclear armed Israel flattened Gaza. Ireland would be no different.

They only people going to fight for Ireland are the Irish....we learned that in the war of independence.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512840#Comment_121512840

We can't track them afaiaw. The UK (and other countries that have radar to do it) presumably tell us they are there, you know to avoid someones holiday being ruined by the passenger plane they are on having a run in with a meandering Russian bomber whose pilot is having a bad day/broke into the vodka stash!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496618#Comment_121496618

I agree they wouldn't but the world does seem to becoming a more unpredictable place, where violent things can unexpectly happen to people (countries) mostly minding their own business that seemed unlikely until recently.

Some kind of attack, yes even up to a small military one, maybe carried out with some deniability does not seem impossible (i.e. almost 100 % unlikely) to me any more.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121513802#Comment_121513802

Exactly! Need to show a willingless to defend even having a few missiles to shoot down aircraft would be a threat in being.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490286#Comment_121490286

There's not much we can do about any of that except kick out the ambassador or call for an end to the UN security council veto. And to be fair Russia does those things to a lot of countries. I don't really think we should be sinking to their level. Putin thrives on attention unfortunately.