The UK had to come to Ireland's aid as a Russian submarine was 'hovering' 12 miles from Cork harbour

Francis McM

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41288176.html

Even though much of Europe's sub-sea cables to N. america pass through Irish waters, it seems we do not have any ability to see underwater now - even though we could for 3 or 4 decades last century. 'Tis too expensive now, it seems. Quote:

“Almost all of the Irish navy’s ships had sonar between the 1960s and 1980s and the former flagship vessel, LÉ Eithne, had it until the 1990s when it became defunct and deemed too expensive at the time by the Department of Defence to replace.”

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-warship-chases-off-russian-sub-from-irish-harbour/

Allinall

Do the British issue us with invoices for their services?

If not, then happy days. We have better things to be spending our money on.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487659#Comment_121487659

You do realise that about three-quarters of all cables in the northern hemisphere pass through or near Irish waters, most off the southwest coast and some off the northwest coast. These cables carry 97% of global communications, including financial transactions, business operations, and everyday internet access.

You have heard of other Russian naval exercises off our coasts ?

You are aware of the sabotage of the Nord Stream oil pipelines in the Baltic Sea not that long ago?

How do you think we look? Why should other countries do the work we do not do ourselves? We'd be the first to complain if the sub sea cables were damaged in case Intel could not print their payroll cheque?

If we have a navy, shouldn't it be at sea instead of in the pubs in port, and shouldn't it have Sonar?

Kermit.de.frog

Embarrassing but not surprising.

It’s a f**king embarassment. Imagine if the radar at Dublin airport was beyond its end of life date and we trotted out the excuse that we couldn’t afford a new one….

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487659#Comment_121487659

Happy days not spending anything to defend our critical infrastructure....

mulbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487686#Comment_121487686

Who sabotaged the nord stream?

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487686#Comment_121487686

Intel pay their staff by cheque?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487743#Comment_121487743

In whose interests could it ever be to interfere with the sub sea cables off our coasts? If you google it, you will find "about three-quarters of all cables in the northern hemisphere pass through or near Irish waters, most off the southwest coast and some off the northwest coast. These cables carry 97% of global communications, including financial transactions, business operations, and everyday internet access"

Do you think Putin could or would not do that if the mood suited him?

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487659#Comment_121487659

It's great we used all that spare money saved over the years and have it invested in health and housing... oh. Wait. We didn't

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487686#Comment_121487686

97% of global communications you say?

You do realise the implication of that, no?

Namely, that this issue is more important to the rest of the northern hemisphere than it is to Ireland...

elperello

This type of penny pinching and lack of investment exists in all branches of our defence forces.

There is a thread about patriotism on here at the moment.

All members of the defence forces take an oath to be faithful to Ireland and protect the constitution.

They are the embodiment of patriotism prepared put themselves in danger to ensure our safety.

The least we can do is back them up with the tools to do the job.

waterwelly

"Military insiders say the Russians are probing British defence systems"

That's from the article. No mention of undersea cables that I can see.

Also says it happened in international waters.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487816#Comment_121487816

And who do you think they would blame / would be red faced if anything happened "on our patch"?

Very important to Irelands credibility too, given the amount we get from foreign hi-tech multinationals? Could we invest a fraction of a per cent of the tax we get from them to buy a sonar so we can at least see underwater? and at least make a tiny effort protect the info they get and receive?

We could get Sonar for 25 million according to Dr. Google. Time we pulled our weight in the defence of the west?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487838#Comment_121487838

They know we are blind and deaf underwater, we as a country do not have a defence system against subs.

And it happened just outside the 12 mile limit off Cork Harbour, home of our defence fleet.

(Some would joke they were in the pub and / or at home for mammy's dinner at the time).

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487698#Comment_121487698

Ireland is so neutral, and the bad Brits are doing the job for Ireland. Joining NATO, no, god forbid, having a better military also, no.

It's sadly a lame debate in Ireland.

duck.duck.go

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487832#Comment_121487832

Notice how those Sinn feiners who would wrap themselves in flags and patriotism are also very anti spending anything on military (and gardai) because something something get drafted into EU army

But having the Brits defend us? Yeh that’s all cool 👌

Or sign up to serve the country in defence forces who are looking for people and funding? Neh none of that

eastie17

Embarrassment, we just need enough to be able to detect and harass. We're never going to be able to fully defend ourselves against the likes of Russia but not being able to do the basics is actually being completely delinquent as a sovereign government. Feck what people might say on Liveline or Primetime or whatever those programs are called if funding on defence increases, its a non negotiable

CatLick

So the government is literally drowning in money. But we can't house ourselves, provide quality medical services or drive off nosy Russians cruising around Roches Point. Time for a government that can actually do something.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487898#Comment_121487898

Should be an election issue but will probably get lost among all the others as usual.

Kaisr Sose

Maybe waiting for a buy sonar and get free static ANPR or red light monitoring cameras.

It's scary that we can have Russian warships probing our sea bed at territorial boundary (or inside it) and we don't know anything about it.

As a nation, we are historically excellent at over spending on the basics, yet habitually lag or underinvest when it comes to essential equipment or resources.

eastie17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487979#Comment_121487979

Change in government wont change anything as regards the medical services unless they are willing to take on the unions and completely restructure the HSE, which they wont have the balls to do because it will lead to massive unrest, strikes etc.

What major civic undertaking has there been in Ireland since the 1960s that you could say we could be proud of, or that has made a significant difference to the quality of the citizens lives?

Motorways perhaps is the only one I can think of.

We seem to be incapable, no matter who is in power, of executing on big projects or big investments (reform of the Defence Forces for example to stay on topic)

The root cause for that I believe is in our democratic system, there is little reward for a TD to concentrate on anything except the needs of his local constituents. Very few of them will recognise him/her for doing something nationally.

Electoral reform where county councils were elected to do local work, and TDs were elected to do national work. It would be an ethics violation for a TD to deal with any local matters, local roads, planning, schools, medical cards etc, the councils to be funded to have the power to do things locally and reduce the number of TDs. We would then vote in TDs on how they are doing on the national stage and what they are achieving for the country as a whole.

RobbieV

The sub was in international waters

Not half as many of these cables pass through irish waters as people think they do. In fact most are nowhere near Irish waters .

Non story for the military loving types to latch onto. Dad's army

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487992#Comment_121487992

What would we have done if we did know about it?

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487898#Comment_121487898

The current embarrassing state of affairs has nothing whatsoever to do with Sinn Fein, it's the other lot who are wholly to blame.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488252#Comment_121488252

The shinners and the looney left are totally against any spending on defence.

duck.duck.go

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488252#Comment_121488252

That’s is also true the current government could be spending on a lot of things but are being told to save up for rainy day after being scarred by last recession

However with Sinn Fein we do have a history of fearmongering about defence and EU army nonsense (and of course Gardai they hate for erm legacy reasons) I will never forget their anti EU stance at every referendum going back decades

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488297#Comment_121488297

So what? Sinn Fein have never been in power and can't be held responsible for the way things currently are.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488210#Comment_121488210

Best option would be to sink the sub on the sly and let the Russians get blamed for it .

1874

What does it mean the British came to our aid?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058326653/the-uk-had-to-come-to-irelands-aid-as-a-russian-submarine-was-hovering-12-miles-from-cork-harbour

What do you mean the British came to Irelands aid? We weren't under attack, and we likely don't even have the capability to detect anyones subs. The article says the British chased off a Russian sub, just outside Cork harbour, but also just outside the 12mile limit, so which is it, 12 miles isn't just outside Cork harbour. The US does this frequently just in international waters and it's never a problem? The RN have a record of dragging trawlers, even sinking at least one, I'm sure more than that. Telling Irish fishing boats to get out of their way in our exclusive economic zone, they have even lied about incidents where trawlers have been hit or snagged stating no RN submarines were in the vicinity and only later admitted it was an RN sub.There have been a number of near misses by RN subs with Ferries.

Lets hope the RN weren't in our territory when they were doing us this favour

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488297#Comment_121488297

So are FF and FG (FFG), who have been in power for decades

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488329#Comment_121488329

Well they won't be able to play that card for much longer, chances are after the next election they will be on the other side of the chamber and lets see how they get on with the housing crisis, health,immigration and defence.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488446#Comment_121488446

I never suggested otherwise.

I don't support any of those parties.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488453#Comment_121488453

WTAF? has any of that got to do with your post? and do you really think the mess that has been caused by successive Govts for decades, even FFG cant clean it up (although they have no intention). Whatever you think of SF, you can hardly think it is reasonable for any party to fix a prior mess in record time, it's been decades in the making. It appears, despite some petty squabbling, they are mostly aligned on the things that affect us.

On defence, years of either FF or FG or both (FFG) have allowed the PDF to get to where it is now.

enfant terrible

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488443#Comment_121488443

What will happen if the RN were in our waters?

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488499#Comment_121488499

Once again you seem to be under the impression I'm a supporter of FF/FG and I'm here to fight their case, just to clear up an confusion I'm not on both counts.

You on the other hand seem to be either a die hard shinner or else someone who has swallowed their BS hook line and sinker, they won't fix anything because housing and health are the 2 things that no government can ever get a handle on.

But back on topic defence is not something any left leaning party has any interest in funding.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488593#Comment_121488593

Probably dragging a trawler to its doom, maybe a diplomatic complaint? I dont know what the official steps are.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488499#Comment_121488499

Get the excuses in early!

Anyone with half a brain knows that SF aren't going to improve the issues with health and housing one iota.

But sure it's better to be doing nowt on ministerial wages than in opposition, just keep banging the drum and hope eventually enough start marching to the beat to get there.

enfant terrible

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488608#Comment_121488608

Probably nothing so.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488210#Comment_121488210

Twelve miles isn't international waters, how has this information been leaked now, different agenda possibilities.

Jack Daw

This is seriously embarrassing for us as a country but sadly nobody in the Dáil gives a toss and the general public doesn't seem to care either.We should be at the bare minimum have some sort of defensive capability and be able to look after ourselves.Smaller countries than us have invested properly into their defence forces so should we.As other people have said here it's not as if our tax payer money that is not being used for defense is being spent wisely elsewhere.

Gusser09

Ireland are correct to what they are doing. Let the EU, UK and the States pay to protect those cables. We'll have all of the FCA lads on here giving it loads about how we should have fighter jets and submarines. Mad stuff.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488605#Comment_121488605

Once again? what are you talking about? you seem to be the one that is a bit confused, I never said you were a FF/FG supporter, but you did come in and blame another party none of which I support. The fact is FF & FG have been in power so are responsible where anything has gone poorly,badly,wrong. Deflecting as to why SF aren't good, wont be better, that sounds very like a typical FF or FG tactic. Imo they are all as bad as each other, you made it plain you have an obvious thing against SF.

You then start issuing your opinion of who you think I support, I dont support any party, this makes me think you are a closet blueshirt because complaining about and blaming SF are par for the course for FG supporters in particular.

BACK ON TOPIC! you were the person who took it off topic blaming SF (just to clarify in case you start jumping to conclusions), I dont support any political party at this point, nor have for some time, I have voted for a few specific individuals in local elections and I have mostly turned up and spoiled my vote for national elections, as in obviously spoiled with some commentary, not accidentally marked incorrectly or made my vote invalid like it was an accident.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488210#Comment_121488210

That Dad's Army slur is very outdated.

Besides we are obviously talking about naval capabilities in this case

AngeloArgue

It's evidently obvious that we must host British military forces in the Republic of Ireland, as part of NATO, to protect us from the Russians. Royal Navy ports and RAF airfields dotted around our coastline.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488222#Comment_121488222

Nothing of course ...but we would know and knowing may be enough.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487659#Comment_121487659

A defense policy based on "sure we'll get away with it, everyone loves the Irish" is becoming rather childish.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488443#Comment_121488443

"Let's hope the RN weren't in our territory when they were doing us this favour"

What would we do if they were, get Mickie to send a strongly worded letter?

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488329#Comment_121488329

True but he's correct in suggesting that SF and the rest of the far left are even more on the "neutrality" dreamland boat than the FF/FG lot.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488453#Comment_121488453

I really hope you are wrong about that because if you think things are bad now they would be a lot worse with Sinn Fein in power. The international markets would look at us think we are gone crazy and decide not to lend to us because they would be afraid they would never get there money back. You think the 2008 crash was bad. This would make it look like it was nothing compared to what Sinn Fein being in Government would be like.

Anyway back on topic.

I think the easiest way to protect out waters is to buy a few submarines maybe second hand off the Americans or the British or French.

Podge_irl

Submarines are useless for protecting your water. What you want is a visible and clear deterrent. Even a Naval Service vessel approaching the area would have had an effect, the problem is that they are incapable of seeing anything.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489132#Comment_121489132

If that was the case, you’d be correct.

Thankfully it’s not the case.