Increase in Anti-EV Media Articles

Flinty997

Unless they start removing them I don't see how there will be fewer.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122124196#Comment_122124196

they cost money to maintain. If profit isn’t been made they will just be shut down.

ColemanY2K

In 5 years time the charging network will be extensive, it's expanding rapidly at present. In addition cars will have the range to allay range anxiety fears.

What we're in at the moment is the growing pains stage.

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122126706#Comment_122126706

I don't agree that cars will have the range to allay range anxiety fears.

Creating cars with huge batteries for some edge cases makes little financial sense for most manufacturers, and is a case of diminishing returns.

Faster (800v+) charging, and better infrastructure is likely the way forward,especially in a small island like Ireland.

For the overwhelming amount of people, lugging around (and paying for) a huge battery that you rarely need to use even a quarter of the capacity makes little sense, if you have plentiful chargers on major routes that can add the 150km needed to get home, in less than 10mins.

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122126888#Comment_122126888

If battery technology stood still then you'd have a point but it's constantly evolving with a report from China this week that BYD will have an updated Seal coming to the market in 2025 with their next generation of batteries.

Faster charging than what we already have here ain't happening for a long time if ever due to the fact the ESB cannot supply the power necessary.

prawnsambo

The biggest hurdle with charging isn't the voltage, it's the charging curve. If you had a battery that charged 300kW on a flat curve, you'd have a 100kWh battery fully charged from zero in twenty minutes.

Flinty997

I don't think the advantages of an EV are enough to break peoples habits when there's no really disincentive not to buy a diesel never mind petrol.

Consider how slow people are to change mortgage provider, energy supplier, or bank to save money. Then factor a price war with depreciation a big factor. At the same time govt reducing EV incentives.

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122127085#Comment_122127085

I drive a petrol car. It currently costs me €160 per week to fill. To travel the same distance in an electric would cost me €50 with 85 to 90% home charging on my current tariff. Roughly €5k saving over ~46 working weeks in the year.

That's one major advantage I can think of.

Sure for the average Joe/Josephine wouldn't be doing the mileage I'm doing but it's certainly a significant saving folk should be aware of.

MojoMaker

Wow, for most of us the cost of charging an EV at home is about 10% of the equivalent range petrol/diesel price. You must be on a very expensive plan to only still be paying 30% of the carbon fuel cost.

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128345#Comment_122128345

Night rate is 18 cents. I would need to fully charge the battery (Tesla M3 RWD for example) three times a week to cover my commute + a quick splash and dash at a Tesla SUC on those three days.

When I worked out the figures pinergy and energia came behind my flogas tariff in terms of who was the cheapest.

Now the calculation might completely flip on it's head were I to invest in a battery for my solar setup. Something I may factor in for the craic.

MojoMaker

3 full charges per week on the night rate being E30 not E50 though right? That's starting to look more respectable already.

Flogas night rate is 12c now if you wanted to push them a bit btw.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128309#Comment_122128309

You'd get twice the mileage in a diesel cutting that saving in half. So if the depreciation was 10-15k it could take a long time to make that back.

Costs me about 80-100 a fill on my petrol. That range costs me approx 30 on my EV but I'm on a meh 24hr rate. But I only fill once or twice a month. So it would take me even longer to offset that depreciation. Though I don't buy a new EV and I could get that down by getting a better night right. Servicing and repairs were becoming to be significant in my ICE cars though.

That said we so much prefer to do my driving in the EV, mostly short city driving we'd happily pay a premium to do it in an EV.

That said if I was buying new today and doing a lot of motorway driving I could make the argument for a diesel or petrol. But it would for almost none of the reasons in these media articles.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128354#Comment_122128354

I'll probably change mine to a better rate soon. The rates and smart meter rates have all changed in the last 6-12 months. We are using our EV much more than I thought we would. It was meant to be our 2nd car but its now doing about 85% of our mileage.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121453736#Comment_121453736

I honestly wouldn't know an EV if one was in front.

I don't think I would consider buying one though, the generator comes out all too often here and my Lidl 1.7kW might have problems charging a car and running the house basics.

The only thing I would wonder is that maybe you are doing something really "stupid" and anti social in this country and sticking to the speed limit?

I invariably do now, my days of either all brakes or accelerator are long gone. The overtaking that ensues with people cutting in sharply in front of me is usually when the oncoming traffic gives them a bit of a clue why unbroken lines and speed limits are used.

If it is your choice of vehicle I wonder why everything these days seems to attract people of polar opposite attitudes who's adherence to an opinion seems almost tribal or cultist though?

Personally I think it's great that people get away from fossil fuels, it must help the country by saving on imports from countries with a history of poor treatment of their citizens by western supported dictators too.

After seeing what seems like a few seemingly candid reports by many, including some guy on youtube calling EV's "milk floats" as well as some electrician who diverted subject onto his electrically powered van when given one, they seem to be suitable for a very niche market. I used to hate stopping on motorways to fill up when travelling for work, or using the satnav to find a fuel station in some rural bit of Britain and finding it had shut down years back, those niggles would I'm sure be multiplied considerably with an EV.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128413#Comment_122128413

Do you still travel for work and drive around rural Britain? If you are then maybe you need a diesel. Unless you want to make an EV work.

Ozark707

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122123749#Comment_122123749

I know a few people who are looking to buy an EV (they WFH most of the week so low mileage) but unless they come down in price they won't. They would likely buy a 2nd hand one so if they take another step down in prices then I think you will see a lot more join the band.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128485#Comment_122128485

when you say come down in price relative to what? A tesla model 3 or y is already really competitive price wise now against anything in their sector price wise new. What's the theoretical car / price point people are referring to when they make your point?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122126706#Comment_122126706

the majority of new cars already have the range, most people now don’t even charge every night and Ireland is tiny

What we are in now is the “stupid” phase

People incapable of making a decision and just do what they always do because of fear

When you see so many running after a small time car dealer for advice I can only call it the “stupid” phase

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128485#Comment_122128485

How much more do they want them to come down?
Have they done any sums to quantify at what price they want them to come down to or just they have no idea so just fire this out as a statement to sound like they know what they are talking about?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122127085#Comment_122127085

People just don’t like change. Not just cars, for everything as you’ve mentioned.

Remember people paying €40-€50 a month for mobile phone contracts, swap to meteor, €29. Then GoMo. Then 48 @ €7.99. When you tell people they just say “ohh I’ll look into that”.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128530#Comment_122128530

I don't think calling people stupid is going to get them to join the EV club. If I hadn't already done so reading that wouldnt make me agree with you.

I feel stupid for buying a car that depreciated 20k in under 2 years.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128709#Comment_122128709

I’m one of those that pays €50 a month for my phone, not because I like paying it, but because each time I switched to one of the cheaper ones it ended in a debacle that cost far more than the €400 ish one might save.

Hoses for courses. It’s not anti ev to point out shortcomings.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129334#Comment_122129334

The Irish Examiner article was pretty anti-ev. It regurgitated the musings of a bunch of people, at best ill-informed, at worst downright bonkers with no editorial whatsoever. So these "opinions" were never corrected and just published with the implied imprimatur of a national newspaper.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129334#Comment_122129334

Its anti EV to make out something as a EV shortcoming when ICE cars suffer from the same thing, often far worse.

joe199

Where miles off having the battery technology to make the range of a use viable, biggest assist stripper is an EV in these times

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128375#Comment_122128375

True but I've a petrol so saying a diesel would cut the saving in half is neither here nor there for me personally.

The cars worth €10k. If I sold it privately and took out a €20k loan then a 2022 Model 3 RWD could be got for circa €30k. Repayments of €388.73 over 5 years with AIB's green loan make the switch very very tempting.

The only hesitation I have regards the value of a 2022 M3 when for €8k more I could have a brand new Highland. Personally I feel 2022 is overpriced at the moment and certainly a two year old M3 RWD will be much harder to shift at that price in a year or two when second hand Seals appear on the market with bigger batteries and better warranties.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128485#Comment_122128485

Much as I love these vague posts could you be a bit more specific? Such as to what low mileage they will be doing and what price they need the cars to come down to?

If they are truly low mileage and price is a factor then a bus ticket might be the cheapest option for them

MojoMaker

"I know a few people who are looking to buy a new car (they WFH most of the week so low mileage) but unless they come down in price they won't. They would likely buy a 2nd hand one so if they take another step down in prices then I think you will see a lot more join the band".

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122129334#Comment_122129334

I swapped to Gomo when launched and then 48 when released. Whole family on it now.
Hassle free and unless more swap, the larger monopolies will continue to rip yourself and others off.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128425#Comment_122128425

My last diesel cars were Mazda's. I disliked the things, the first packed in, the turbo went after a long, long history of grinding to a halt or even failing to start. A fuel rack was the solution I think. The turbo was replaced and the car sold for next to nothing a week later as the turbo that failed must have sent bits circulating around with the lubricant wrecking the engine.

I now have a petrol car, a basic Seat Ibiza that I bought when I retired and I use it only in rural Ireland so far.

I was concerned about performance I would not have a turbo, I have wrecked too many engines without the need to compress more explosion fodder into the cylinders. Anyway it's fine less than 1000cc but not a liability pulling into traffic. My biggest gripe is the software.

Strangely enough it was with the Mazda Diesel. I was on a clients site the first day and nipped out to adjust an instrument closing the door with the key in the ignition, it locked itself after a few minutes, Do software engineers live in the real world?

I wouldn't touch an EV or diesel, the Seat is three years old on limited km insurance wise and is 32,000 km total.

Not too painful, even if it's the first vehicle I have had for decades that I had to buy fuel for.

My work in Britain or here would not have been feasible with an EV. I could sometimes shift more than one tank of fuel in a day. I suppose One could get the paperwork done while plugged in, but somehow I dont think waiting for a charge is a good idea.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122128943#Comment_122128943

I don’t really care if they do or don’t love to electric

If they are stupid enough to not understand the saving then it’s not my problem to convince them, let them continue to pay my taxes.
Im not sure why everyone is so upset? As I posted if people are stupid enough to take the advice of a small time car dealer and not ask questions then they have bigger issue than what car they drive

in terms of depreciation, sorry but all cars depreciate. Doesn’t matter what fuel you stick into them