Increase in Anti-EV Media Articles

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122015898#Comment_122015898

Their design life is 150k miles before they become blocked with ash. The regen cycle shortens thereafter causing a significant increase in running cost and potentially damage to turbos. Its a very common issue and the only solution is to replace the DPF.

I talk to my mechanic and he says he sees it in lots of cars over 10years old and most of the time it's not econical to put them right. He says he wouldn't recommend a diesel to anyone who doesn't do most of their driving on motorways.

denismc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122015898#Comment_122015898

Are you sure your Jeep has a DPF?

They only became mandatory around 2009/2010 so depending when your car was built it may not actually have one.

My 2009 Octavia didn't have one but the newer engine released a few months later did.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122015898#Comment_122015898

Just because yours was ok doesn't mean they are all ok.

We've had diesels l that had no problem and others that just had no end of problems with it. Russian roulette with them. Hence why theres so many "questionable" modifications with them.

https://www.irishtimes.com/advertising-feature/a-car-with-a-dpf-filter-removed-cannot-legally-drive-on-public-roads-in-ireland-1.4119079

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122016044#Comment_122016044

We had an Astra that didn't. Last car we had that didn't..

Hotblack Desiato

64k for a diseasel shitbox, the world has gone mad.

Red Silurian

In a change to the usual. Pat Kenny read out a text on his radio show a few mins ago. Somebody was at a garage with his "reliable" petrol car and the mechanic had a Mercedes EV in that needed a new €20k battery

In fairness to Pat he completely rubbished the text with the facts and questioned who is spreading the misinformation so much. Alluding possibly to the oil industry being the culprit

Patser

I'm sure all those who come in here taking about EV battery degradation and range, will equally be all over the EU commision report that the WPTP test looks to have been out by 20% on petrol and diesel consumption, also on CO2 and other emmisions being much higher than claimed by Manufacturers

https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/motors/2024/0415/1443651-fuel-consumption-of-new-cars-may-be-higher-than-claimed/

Old diesel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122009911#Comment_122009911

THIS.......

What you have to bear in mind is that many diesel drivers think diesel is the only thing that works.

They would feel lost if given a 1.5 TSI, a PHEV or a Toyota style hybrid. Asking them to drive an EV is almost like asking them to hand their licence to drive back.

If they are getting the vibes diesel is on the way out.

It's totally unsurprising that lots of them are trying to get into a 241.

Which they can then drive indefinitely (they think).

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028921#Comment_122028921

A significant portion of people I know personally who have a vendetta against EVs simply can't afford an EV. The remainder are waiting for charging infrastructure to improve(on street parking, destination chargers).

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029093#Comment_122029093

Do they have a vendetta against ICE cars that can't afford.

I don't have a vendetta against Ferrari's because they are expensive and impractical for me.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029288#Comment_122029288

yes they do. It's partly attributed to jealousy. Obviously my acedotal observation isn't applicable to all Anti-EV, but certainly those I know.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029580#Comment_122029580

In fairness that's got nothing to with EVs..

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029580#Comment_122029580

I don't think it's all jealousy that is motivating it. I think it's more related to a fear that an "inferior" experience will be forced upon them. Yes, I know "inferior" is a loaded and triggering word around here.

It's worth remembering that while the leaf was an innovative vehicle for its time, the terrible battery has left a damaging legacy. The people that are not into cars hear about used leafs that have degraded to less than 100mi of range. You also have the disappointed owners of newer cars that have real world ranges that are significantly lower than wltp. Three four years ago you had another wave of early adopters, less informed than what came before and now that disappointment is getting an airing.

Lastly, the media see the "culture war" around EVs as being relatively harmless. It's certainly not as controversial as taking a stand on gender or migration but delivers lots of engagement and clicks. The Irish media are happy to feed people's biases in this context.

I think you won't see a turn until the next generation of battery tech starts to arrive in mid market cars and real world ranges of at least 700kms highway. That's probably at least 2 years away.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029093#Comment_122029093

Let's look at 3 examples, according to AIG the top selling cars in Ireland in 2023 were

• Hyundai Tucson - Medium SUV - Starts at €37,795
• Toyota Corolla - Family hatch - Starts at €33,310
  
• Toyota Yaris - Small car - Starts at €26,330

EV equivalents

• MG ZS - Medium SUV - Starts at  €30,495 - €7,300 savings
• MG4 - Family hatch - Starts at €27,995 - €5,315 savings
• Fiat 500 - Small Car - Starts at €24,995 - €1335 savings

So the next time the significant portion of people you know make that claim simply point the above, could save them a few quid on their next car.

And that's before we talk about second hand deals

Shoog

I think the main grievance people have is seeing the car that they paid €50k for two years ago been sold for €30k new now. Its hard not to feel ripped off when that happens.

Such is the lot of the early adopters. I remember when the first CD players came out and we're been sold for a thousand - only to find better machines selling for €200 a few years later.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029731#Comment_122029731

What car is this? I know of 75 to 55 drops, but not 50 to 30.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029905#Comment_122029905

No specific car, but the proportions are reflective of what happened.

Gerrymandering reborn

Take this for example

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/volkswagen-id-3-pro-150-kw-family-58kwh-5dr-auto/36600923

This was probably close to 40k when new and is on sale from a Dealer for €17,500

I'd reckon the owner got about 14k for it from the dealer.

BTW this EV still has its warranty

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029952#Comment_122029952

The ID.3 Family spec was €37,514 new in 2011. The car has covered 137,000km (34,000km/year) which is quite high for a 3-year-old car and has lost 54% based on it's advertised price. I'm not that surprised to see a high mileage car depreciate that much over a 3-year cycle. It's done about 6 years of average mileage.

It only has 23,000km left on it's battery warranty.

fits

^ it also has 137000 km on it and is wrapped.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029952#Comment_122029952

Shoog was reflecting/imagining 50→30, but new both times, not 2nd hand.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029712#Comment_122029712

I've tried to explain with similar cost examples including fuel savings but some people will not listen to reason. EVs aren't for everyone but suit a lot of people's needs, wants are a different story.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029672#Comment_122029672

I guess no one's buying petrol cars that don't have 1000km of range so.

My old petrol car hits the red in about 360 around town.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030166#Comment_122030166

Oh sorry, my response was purely in relation to cost

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030267#Comment_122030267

I suppose the main reason you'd want more range in an EV than in a petrol/diesel is to do with the differing speed of refueling. A petrol car with a small range (say 300km) could do Cork to Belfast (420km) with one stop lasting 5-10 minutes. In an EV you're talking a minimum of 30 minutes to 80%, and that's assuming you're not waiting at the stopoff for a charger to become free

Now before I get berated I will say you will likely be stopping off for a toilet break anyway and I would also say that with the way fuel prices are going you will soon be saving a significant amount of money doing it in an EV (the 3X Rule suggests 70c/kWh is equivalent to €2.10/L) and that it would be well worth the inconvenience. But it is inconvenient and we need to counter the mentality

Shoog

I am all for EVs but recent price drops will leave a sour taste in many early adopters mouths and this will likely leak out to a willing media been paid to promote bad news stories about EVs.

As soon as I can afford one I will be getting one.

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030770#Comment_122030770

Not sure where the minimum of 30mins comes from, seems outdated.

A standard range Model Y for example would be around 15mins required, a long range Model 3 wouldn't need any stops.

Patser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030822#Comment_122030822

It really does depend on your timimg though, and how you define an early adopter.

I imported a BMW i3 in 2018, when EVs were still seen as a real rare exotic, and pre-Brexit was able to get it for €17k - I'd see myself as an early adopter.

Traded it last year for an MG4 and got €12.5k trade in.

The recent price drops didn't really affect the true early adopters - they affected those who bought when all cars, especially EVs were at a high price due to Covid production issues, and just prior to production and supply ramping back up. EVs took an especially large hit as at the exact same time Chinese producers like MG and BYD came to Europe.

So EV producers like Stellantis, VW and Tesla had been living a high price bubble hidden partially by Covid excuses - then the pin prick of BYD and MG came along to burst it. Tesla reacted quickly and mercilessly by slashing almost 20% off prices immediately, leaving all the others scrambling to find a place between 'bargain' MG prices and 'premium' Tesla prices.

So, yes, early adopters of the Gen 2 EVs have been caught out by a combination of Covid inflation, and sudden rapid competition - but that is now being turned into a fear that EVs will continue to rapidly devalue and also twisted by media that this is driven by fear of EV problems - as opposed to pure competition.

Odds are the prices have reached their new levels. MG and BYD can't really go much lower, and are only achieving their margins due to Chinese Govt subsidies - which could dry up as the Chinese market is satuated now. European manufacturers are struggling to make a profit at new level so can't really cut more. Only curve ball is Tesla, as Musk has shown to be unpredicatable, their share price is plumetting as suddenly they are producing more that demand (after years of not keeping up). He could suddenly decide on another big drop - but by all accounts Tesla cars are just barely profitable by unit.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030770#Comment_122030770

If least stopping is the only metric then diesel is the only choice. Same with only using motorway fill ups. Assuming prices don't change.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029905#Comment_122029905

I'll give you real world example. ID5 GTX asking 83k brand new at some stage in 2023, obviously didn't sell, that's etron 55 money, cars are not competitors, delusional money, my uncle enquired but said no thanks, ended up he bought it for his wife in late 2023 and ended up paying 51k for it registered as a 241, collected in January, still brand new. It went down to 58k then the big announced VW price drop they discounted it a further 7k with a simple phone call.

That's 32k off without it ever being a used car. I did the deal for him, the paperwork, the calls everything..

I wonder did anyone in the country buy an 80k+ ID GTX car, or even a 70k+ car....I really hope not. That's an awful wallop.if someone did