Increase in Anti-EV Media Articles

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761346#Comment_121761346

on 2nd hand cars course they do. go to 3 different dealers you'll get 3 different trade in prices. I'm browsing at a new car and the same car same spec is varying by 3 to 4k with different dealers. now there's some small mileage variations but none look worn out.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761415#Comment_121761415

Dealers currently hold the upper hand over customers. It’s all too convenient for them to dismiss secondhand electric vehicles as practically worthless and present low offers. The issue of battery degradation exacerbates this situation. Beware of articles like “My VW ID.4 Lost 15% of Its Battery Capacity in Three Years,” featuring disheartened owners standing next to their cars. But does this matter in the grand scheme of things? After all, we don’t scrutinize internal combustion engine (ICE) cars for similar issues. Interestingly, this trend benefits consumers purchasing used EVs. However, as someone who doesn’t typically buy secondhand cars, I can already envision the dealer handing me a document: "Apologies, but your battery has degraded by 15%. Our threshold is 8%, so I can only offer you X amount for your car."

Flinty997

Dealers might say we can't sell red EVs cars so we are only going to give X amount for your car.

Dealers might say we can't sell diesels with all their potential problems so only offer you X amount for the car.

Dades

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761665#Comment_121761665

As someone who just bought a 2 yr old EV, I think the lack of clarity around the state of the battery must be a big factor in that initial huge depreciation from new. The uncertainty probably does benefit second hand buyers, except in the cases where a previous owners charging habits haven't had regard for the long term battery health.

It must be a deliberate move by manufacturers to avoid measuring (or releasing) battery health over time (similar to phones) for fear of what the effect might be. But instead people are struck with FUD, thinking that second hand EVs must be all running on empty.

With ICE cars, people use mileage, and maybe google known issues for the model, but the outcome is no less uncertain. There's always the fear that something was about to go horribly wrong with any car. Especially if the price seems good.

Dades

Also, I watched the Harry's Garage videos on EVs. I'm a big fan of his channel (purely for the classic stuff), but his comments and conclusions were very much focussed on high-end EVs, their massive depreciation and insurance cost, as well as his own transport requirements.

If you're not driving a Taycan or an e-Tron, and your trips are 99% urban, then his conclusions are not relevant to you.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121762191#Comment_121762191

Nissan Leaf have a SOH indicator on the dash.

If you are a second hand buyer you'd want to get battery health you can get it from the ODC port. Failing that a range test or even a full charge will tell you if the battery can hold and deliver a charge.

https://www.datgroup.com/ev-residual-value/

All Harry said it that it should be easier to access. Which is fair point. Not that it can't be got. Obviously Bjorn does it in his tests. Hes obviously had faulty ones to test, exactly because they are faulty.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761665#Comment_121761665

I don't feel all that sorry for customers who can afford to buy new cars if it helps customers who buy used cars who will have access to the info. The dealer will only low ball you if they want you to go away and not buy another car from them.

Either way, the ship has already sailed and it's being introduced by regulation. If you do keep getting burnt by a particular dealer, take your money somewhere else.

n.d.os

According to the comments, the manufacturers have no idea what they are doing and hydrogen is the future. Nothing new there then. 😂

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121765324#Comment_121765324

i can understand her view that it is an uncertain time for dealers (with EV values taking a hit recently) and that she needs to protect the business. however as more and more EV's hit the second hand market i wouldn't be surprised if ashford motors pivot back to EV's to take advantage of the business.

as for the comments underneath...haha better left unsaid!

bruschi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121765324#Comment_121765324

the thing I really cant get my head around is the amount of people who feel the need to comment or tell everyone that electric cars are scrap and wont work and how hard they are. And also all the "I know a guy" stories of people who either returned them or lost money or had warranties voided. The regurgitation of these urban legends then as if it is the truth. I genuinely couldnt give a toss what people drive or how the vehicle they drive functions, but the amount of times I get asked what the range is, or if I am afraid of running out of power or losing money etc etc. Its mental what people believe and take on face value, particularly on social media sites. Its probably not confined to just EVs, and they certainly have a very similar following to a lot of conspiracy/anti vax/"do your resurch" type folks.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121770618#Comment_121770618

Feels very similar to the conspiracy stuff. For sure there's some truths in there, but its drowned in hysteria and hyperbole.

You know I see the same thing at work. People in meetings pluck bat crazy statistics out of thin air. People seem to assume no one will check anything that is said.

MojoMaker

Is that a wind up or a press release?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121780300#Comment_121780300

Promoting how they resolved the issue to the customers satisfaction would be a far better sales tactic than tabloid social media sound bites. Which seems to have just as much negative responses.

But people are obviously sucked into it without thinking too hard about it. Lack of critical thinking imo.

You shouldn't lead with defending something, that no one has challenged. It sets a negative tone from the start.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121780441#Comment_121780441

Lol...

Old diesel

Several things to consider here.

1) note that she had to go to a Hybrid car for a real life story to back up her EV stance.

I would like to know what kind of hybrid it was.

Not only is the traditional "self charging" Toyota Hybrid one of the best modern ICE cars for reliability.

But from what I can see Toyotas back up service when things go wrong is very good.

I'm wondering if the Hybrid is actually a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV where Mitsubishi are no longer in Ireland.

This would be further complicated if the vehicle was actually out of Mitsubishi warranty but sold by the dealer under the dealers own warranty..

Mitsubishi were quite active in the PHEV game too - they were doing it on Outlanders before lots of the other manufacturers got into PHEVs.

It seems obvious to me that if it was a manufacturer still actively selling cars in Ireland and the part was still under its relevant warranty from new.

Then in a "we literally dont make the part anymore" situation. The obvious end game is that the manufacturer would have to find some alternative way to ensure the customer is looked after.

Anyway the fact she couldn't line up a bad BEV story for her stance is rather telling to me.

2) let's reflect for a moment her target audience. She does petrol head type cars as a flagship component of her business.

Her videos will frequently appeal to petrolheads.

Many of whom will lap up a good negative EV story because many will be sceptical of EVs.

3) she talks of EV batteries being 20 k to replace. But is imposing a blanket EV ban even on cars that still have battery warranty left.

She would refuse to sell a 3 year old EV with 30,000 kms even though there's 5 years or 130,000 kms warranty left from the manufacturer on that "20,000 euro warranty".

4) because of the way anti EV stories spread this is actually good publicity in terms of selling her used ICE cars...

Even if its just sceptical of EV drivers valuing her "honesty" and deciding she's someone worth buying from.

If I found the right website for her she actually sells a variety of ICE cars. She had a 1.4 Auris diesel for example.

Old diesel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121780558#Comment_121780558

My reading of her comments on the video is that it WASNT one of her cars she sold.

But it was either another dealers car or it was a story she was told by someone.

The way it was phrased is very much that another dealer was involved.

Whether it was a franchised dealer for work that should have been done under the cars original new car warranty if the part was available.

Or if it was a used car dealer (not Nadia) under that dealers own warranty isn't clear to me.

Was very much presented as "a story she was told the other day" imo

ColemanY2K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121782316#Comment_121782316

She says in the comments it's a French car.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121782350#Comment_121782350

Doesn't matter which dealer.

Who ever hears the story 3rd or 10th hand won't know which dealer. It just create doubt about used car dealers.

Same with dieselgate, dsg, dpf, get a reputation and the customers will walk away. Look at the issues with Land/Range Rover in the UK.

MrMusician18

This is the kind of arguments the EV is coming up against in the press. Some are vehemently anti EV

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785524#Comment_121785524

Is anything in the graphic false? I note they haven't mentioned the importance of the source of the electricity and the difference between coal/lignite based and solar

Mr Q

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121785619#Comment_121785619

The part about brakes is absolute bullshit anyway. If they're saying they are worse than an ICE car for pollution.

crisco10

And the potholes point is disingenuous, trucks and buses etc have at least 10x impact and cause the most damage.

The 50k mile figure is also debated. I've seen studies have it closer to 10k.

And all these infographics negate the environmental impact of fossil fuel distribution.

Shoog

It seems to me that the whole hydrogen hype is just another example of ethanol as a petrol alternative, promote a technology which cannot economically work to divert resources away from EVs which do work.

The whole point of hydrogen and hydrogen promoters is that it doesn't work. I bet if you dig down you will find that the hydrogen boosters are all petro shills.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121765324#Comment_121765324

She has created an account and was posting on the main motors forum about this "video". Seems after all the talk of not selling electrics and using a hybrid as a reference, She will sell hybrids.

Also took screen shots from boards and used in a response video.

All a bit odd but as I pointed out on other thread at the moment she has no stock of electric cars so trying to tell people large combustion engine cars will increase in price is just trying to sell her stock. If some clowns lap that up then fair play to her for catching them in it

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787116#Comment_121787116

Her target market is obvious. I suppose there's just no need for these videos. Even with Harry's garage you have to wonder if his reasoning is disingenuous. I know dealers like Nadia are worried about EVs and I get it because they've been selling used ICE cars for years and a time will come when they have to change their business model. If anyone is familiar with Tony Gravelwood on YouTube, he spouts the same stuff. He's terrified of EVs but the market is volatile at the moment and second hand dealers are blaming EVs which I can kind of understand. Being a second hand EV dealer would be challenging in these times.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787199#Comment_121787199

The market is volatile because electric cars for years have been massively overpriced so the market needs to fix itself now.

People paid huge money for new cars which now have seen huge depreciation because a new car had to drop once the market slowed down. Was always going to happen. When you seen people advertising a used Kia Niro at the same price they paid 3 years and 60k km's later you knew something was wrong, plus paying 40+ for a Renault.

Most people who follow cars knew this was coming. It was unsustainable and Tesla jumped first and the rest saying they wouldn't last year was just noise

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787217#Comment_121787217

Tesla are in a price war for market share with Chinese manufacturers. That's the only reason they are dropping prices. It's competition that's mostly driving the fall in prices.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121787326#Comment_121787326

But the prices of electric was far too high, this was seen before with VW when they lobbed off 5k no problem on the eGolf, now with the ID models and 10k, plus all other manufacturers can drop the price in Europe.

The market has slowed down as well because the people who wanted an electric above everything else now have them, the rest of the buyer will look at all options so they have to be more inline with combustion engines.

I don't know about the china angle, Tesla and VW I know are mad after that market