The part about brakes is absolute bullshit anyway. If they're saying they are worse than an ICE car for pollution.
Is anything in the graphic false? I note they haven't mentioned the importance of the source of the electricity and the difference between coal/lignite based and solar
This is the kind of arguments the EV is coming up against in the press. Some are vehemently anti EV
Doesn't matter which dealer.
Who ever hears the story 3rd or 10th hand won't know which dealer. It just create doubt about used car dealers.
Same with dieselgate, dsg, dpf, get a reputation and the customers will walk away. Look at the issues with Land/Range Rover in the UK.
She says in the comments it's a French car.
My reading of her comments on the video is that it WASNT one of her cars she sold.
But it was either another dealers car or it was a story she was told by someone.
The way it was phrased is very much that another dealer was involved.
Whether it was a franchised dealer for work that should have been done under the cars original new car warranty if the part was available.
Or if it was a used car dealer (not Nadia) under that dealers own warranty isn't clear to me.
Was very much presented as "a story she was told the other day" imo
Several things to consider here.
1) note that she had to go to a Hybrid car for a real life story to back up her EV stance.
I would like to know what kind of hybrid it was.
Not only is the traditional "self charging" Toyota Hybrid one of the best modern ICE cars for reliability.
But from what I can see Toyotas back up service when things go wrong is very good.
I'm wondering if the Hybrid is actually a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV where Mitsubishi are no longer in Ireland.
This would be further complicated if the vehicle was actually out of Mitsubishi warranty but sold by the dealer under the dealers own warranty..
Mitsubishi were quite active in the PHEV game too - they were doing it on Outlanders before lots of the other manufacturers got into PHEVs.
It seems obvious to me that if it was a manufacturer still actively selling cars in Ireland and the part was still under its relevant warranty from new.
Then in a "we literally dont make the part anymore" situation. The obvious end game is that the manufacturer would have to find some alternative way to ensure the customer is looked after.
Anyway the fact she couldn't line up a bad BEV story for her stance is rather telling to me.
2) let's reflect for a moment her target audience. She does petrol head type cars as a flagship component of her business.
Her videos will frequently appeal to petrolheads.
Many of whom will lap up a good negative EV story because many will be sceptical of EVs.
3) she talks of EV batteries being 20 k to replace. But is imposing a blanket EV ban even on cars that still have battery warranty left.
She would refuse to sell a 3 year old EV with 30,000 kms even though there's 5 years or 130,000 kms warranty left from the manufacturer on that "20,000 euro warranty".
4) because of the way anti EV stories spread this is actually good publicity in terms of selling her used ICE cars...
Even if its just sceptical of EV drivers valuing her "honesty" and deciding she's someone worth buying from.
If I found the right website for her she actually sells a variety of ICE cars. She had a 1.4 Auris diesel for example.
Lol...
Promoting how they resolved the issue to the customers satisfaction would be a far better sales tactic than tabloid social media sound bites. Which seems to have just as much negative responses.
But people are obviously sucked into it without thinking too hard about it. Lack of critical thinking imo.
You shouldn't lead with defending something, that no one has challenged. It sets a negative tone from the start.
Is that a wind up or a press release?
Feels very similar to the conspiracy stuff. For sure there's some truths in there, but its drowned in hysteria and hyperbole.
You know I see the same thing at work. People in meetings pluck bat crazy statistics out of thin air. People seem to assume no one will check anything that is said.
the thing I really cant get my head around is the amount of people who feel the need to comment or tell everyone that electric cars are scrap and wont work and how hard they are. And also all the "I know a guy" stories of people who either returned them or lost money or had warranties voided. The regurgitation of these urban legends then as if it is the truth. I genuinely couldnt give a toss what people drive or how the vehicle they drive functions, but the amount of times I get asked what the range is, or if I am afraid of running out of power or losing money etc etc. Its mental what people believe and take on face value, particularly on social media sites. Its probably not confined to just EVs, and they certainly have a very similar following to a lot of conspiracy/anti vax/"do your resurch" type folks.
i can understand her view that it is an uncertain time for dealers (with EV values taking a hit recently) and that she needs to protect the business. however as more and more EV's hit the second hand market i wouldn't be surprised if ashford motors pivot back to EV's to take advantage of the business.
as for the comments underneath...haha better left unsaid!
According to the comments, the manufacturers have no idea what they are doing and hydrogen is the future. Nothing new there then. 😂
I don't feel all that sorry for customers who can afford to buy new cars if it helps customers who buy used cars who will have access to the info. The dealer will only low ball you if they want you to go away and not buy another car from them.
Either way, the ship has already sailed and it's being introduced by regulation. If you do keep getting burnt by a particular dealer, take your money somewhere else.
Nissan Leaf have a SOH indicator on the dash.
If you are a second hand buyer you'd want to get battery health you can get it from the ODC port. Failing that a range test or even a full charge will tell you if the battery can hold and deliver a charge.
All Harry said it that it should be easier to access. Which is fair point. Not that it can't be got. Obviously Bjorn does it in his tests. Hes obviously had faulty ones to test, exactly because they are faulty.
Also, I watched the Harry's Garage videos on EVs. I'm a big fan of his channel (purely for the classic stuff), but his comments and conclusions were very much focussed on high-end EVs, their massive depreciation and insurance cost, as well as his own transport requirements.
If you're not driving a Taycan or an e-Tron, and your trips are 99% urban, then his conclusions are not relevant to you.
As someone who just bought a 2 yr old EV, I think the lack of clarity around the state of the battery must be a big factor in that initial huge depreciation from new. The uncertainty probably does benefit second hand buyers, except in the cases where a previous owners charging habits haven't had regard for the long term battery health.
It must be a deliberate move by manufacturers to avoid measuring (or releasing) battery health over time (similar to phones) for fear of what the effect might be. But instead people are struck with FUD, thinking that second hand EVs must be all running on empty.
With ICE cars, people use mileage, and maybe google known issues for the model, but the outcome is no less uncertain. There's always the fear that something was about to go horribly wrong with any car. Especially if the price seems good.
Dealers might say we can't sell red EVs cars so we are only going to give X amount for your car.
Dealers might say we can't sell diesels with all their potential problems so only offer you X amount for the car.
Dealers currently hold the upper hand over customers. It’s all too convenient for them to dismiss secondhand electric vehicles as practically worthless and present low offers. The issue of battery degradation exacerbates this situation. Beware of articles like “My VW ID.4 Lost 15% of Its Battery Capacity in Three Years,” featuring disheartened owners standing next to their cars. But does this matter in the grand scheme of things? After all, we don’t scrutinize internal combustion engine (ICE) cars for similar issues. Interestingly, this trend benefits consumers purchasing used EVs. However, as someone who doesn’t typically buy secondhand cars, I can already envision the dealer handing me a document: "Apologies, but your battery has degraded by 15%. Our threshold is 8%, so I can only offer you X amount for your car."
on 2nd hand cars course they do. go to 3 different dealers you'll get 3 different trade in prices. I'm browsing at a new car and the same car same spec is varying by 3 to 4k with different dealers. now there's some small mileage variations but none look worn out.
Battery durability reporting is being introduced anyway, it's in the interest of consumers buying used cars and owners who are maintaining their cars. I don't think your approach to hide the state of a critical component of your vehicle because you're fearful of a dealer giving you less for your car compared to a same model that's in better condition is valid.
Dealer trade-ins are about getting you in to a new vehicle and getting another car they can resell. That doesn't change just because they have access to information that accurately reflects the state of the vehicle. The dealer isn't out to screw their customer, they are in the business of selling you cars.
And if battery testing becomes a thing it will be mileage, age and battery health. The dealers will take advantage of this and penalise you for every percent the battery is below whatever made up limit they put on it. I'm sorry but this system has too many holes in it and only benefits dealers and second hand car buyers. New car owners are the ones that will suffer once they try and trade in their car after 3 years.
Anyway. I'm repeating myself at this stage. Lot's to think about.
You have it backwards. On a car in warranty the dealer doesn't care, its covered by warranty. It usually mileage or age.
If you have an failing battery on a car out of warranty its a bigger deal.
That said, the reason you don't see many battery repairs or swaps is because its rare. Its also why some manufactures can offer longer longer warranties on EVs.
On your first point, you're completely mincing my words and misinterpreting what I originally said back in #273.
I agree with you on the second point. Testing batteries that have expired warranties is not a big deal. The real issue is with newer cars, especially those that use PCP finance. It's possible the dealer will only give the guaranteed minimum future value of the car, and nothing else if the battery condition does not satisfy the dealer’s standards. Like with mileage limits on PCP's, they will make this impossible to achieve.
Battery testing, is not hypothetical in the sense you can do it, and find a problem and repair it.
But any car past the warranty of the battery will not be under the main dealer network. They won't be taking it in as a trade in, or being low balled.
Anyone who wants a 10 year old, high mileage EV would want to know how to test the battery. Or buy from an EV specialist.
I get your point about healthy batteries not being rewarded and maybe that is how we can improve the value of secondhand EVs in the future.
The problem with that approach is that you won't be rewarded for looking after your battery and will be low balled anyway because the dealer will say sure I've no idea how healthy your battery is so will have to discount the trade in to compensate for unknown risk.
It doesn't matter anyway because it's only matter of time before manufacturers are mandated to provide this information to owners. As I said before if I can get the Leaf battery SOH using a free app available on Google Store its a nonsense to be arguing that this information should be hidden from owners of EVs that are light years more advanced than the Leaf
