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FI Charts ( T120+ onwards) Winter 2023/2024 **READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭Dazler97


    I hope that is flipped where we are in the cold and eastern Europe in a mild air, even a frost on Christmas night will do me ,regardless the heating and fire will be lit



  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    It's 16 days until Christmas Day. It ain't over until the 'rotund she/her/they sings'.


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    A meandering high that eventually sinks looks likely. So a proper cold spell after Christmas could be off the table too. If we are lucky we may get some transient cold spells. I really hope after all the promise of recent weeks we are not looking at a traditional el nino with blocking sometime in February.



  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    Cool with transient cold (polar maritime) the most likely outcome based on current output. After a promising 2-3 days of the GFS setting up a block in the Atlantic with the pre Christmas high regressing toward Greenland heights, we have seen in the last two days the pre Xmas high sink south leaving us with a rather flat zonal pattern. That said the ECMWF clusters/ems are throwing up a mixed bag of everything for Christmas. And the USA is looking toasty for Christmas into New Year.


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    06z gfs ens a tad cooler than 00z, 18z and 12z. The pressure mean brings the mid Atlantic high further south east,while there is greater heights over Greenland. A cooler run into Christmas Day than previous runs on average with nothing exceptionally cold or mild favoured.


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



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  • Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭bazlers


    It is still quiet possible we could see a trend for colder conditions to deepen from the 22nd. Fingers crossed.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Hopefully, after the excitement building about a week ago everything kind of went flat over the past 4 or 5 days. The models could do with a major shakeup soon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Possibly. If the models are under estimating the mjo signal, we could see juicy charts developing for Christmas week yet. At the very least let's have some frost to make it seasonal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,882 ✭✭✭Storm 10


    Christmas market shut in Galway due to storm force winds



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Just took a look at the 6z in terms of warming and there has been a big shift since yesterdays output to support major warmings from Christmas Day. Yesterday there were only 2 ensemble members supporting a major warming developing. This mornings GFS runs has about 8 members going into the red showing the possibilities of an SSW in the works while the majority of the remaining members go for low to intermediate warmings.

    A fairly major shift towards substantial warming in todays models compared to yesterday. We are likely to see a further swing towards a major end of December warming over the next few days, fingers crossed. Current modeling suggests that the PV may come under major pressure final week of December and into the first week of January. What we need to see modeled in about a weeks time is the warming pushing right into the pole with the PV being split into 2 separate lobes and not just a displacement.

    As for the GFS operational it does not go for a major warming, however the PV is being stretched and displaced on that particular run, while at the same time another warming is developing over the med and heading towards Asia.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    As you say we need to see a split. A displacement could lead to a lobe of vortex to the north west and a few weeks of wet weather instead of a cold spell in the heart of winter. We need to see more members going for a proper split to have any confidence that it will happen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Will this be an outlier?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭Dazler97


    Looking at that most of Europe in the freezer and where not quite there ,hopefully a white Christmas in my dreams maybe 😅



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Unfortunately it topples right in time for Christmas anyway.

    The Glosea winter update makes for grim viewing, if correct.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭Dazler97




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Most of Europe appears to be going into the freezer in the days leading up to Christmas but at the moment we of course are too far west and only get a glancing blow of low level cold. Hopefully something will work out for us in January or early February at the latest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    The control run is going for it. It could still be a potent northerly, albeit probably brief.



  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    The charts are going to change a lot between now and Christmas. If this was summer, we would be telling ourselves to cop on if we threw the towel at what we perceived to be the outcome two weeks down the road. More so, what is going in re: the PV is likely to produce some fairly jumpy model output in the next two weeks.

    Last two GFS op runs for same time period for example


    All we can look for is trends. The trend over the past 3 days for the 22-25th period is definitely toward cool (including brief transient polar maritime cold)) weather, but this trend is highly likely to change. A week from now, we may still be guessing. That's why our shared hobby is so much fun. Constantly guessing and learning.

    Post edited by WolfeEire on

    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    The main thing to look out for in the ensembles mean is the high pressure to our south. If you're looking for colder weather this Christmas, this current 'trend' of the high sitting from the azores, through Iberian Peninsula into the continent will prevent the deep cold to our north from sinking south. It basically acts as an American football blocker, preventing any downward shift of colder air. It is a familiar site in Irish winters so it is always a favoured outcome.


    There are a couple of very cold members showing up in the GEFS for Christmas with the majority of the remainder showing cool to average temps for the time of year. For those that do not know, the lines shown represent the 850hpa temps of the various members. 850hpas represent the temperature at about 1.5 km, which is generally above the atmospheric boundary layer. You can view here

    https://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs.php. The ens updates four times a day at around 1230am/pm and 5.30am/pm

    .

    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    The trend does seem to be for heights to stay to the south, with perhaps a northerly or north westerly airflow in the run up to Christmas before the high is flattened. I can't see a dramatic switch to heights been shown moving into Greenland unless the MJO signal has been underestimated by the ECM and GFS and the models suddenly reflect that in about a weeks time. Of course its not a guarantee of a high latitude block emerging, but it would increase our chances of it happening.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    very mild charts this morning, the entire run up to Christmas now looks mild or very mild, however it's still 2 weeks to Christmas Day so changes could happen before then but we're going to need to see a major shift in the models this week if we're going to get anything noteworthy before December is over with. At the moment the Atlantic is looking increasingly difficult to shift and blocking is nowhere to be seen on the latest short range models with low pressures routed over Greenland/Iceland, north Canada. Blocking has packed it's bags and gone on holidays.

    The NAO/AO both have gone positive and these are set to remain positive or become stronger positive over the next week or 2 so not much support for northern blocking to come back in the short term. Hopefully things will be looking different in about 2 weeks time.




  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    A colder GFS op run so far

    but those low systems bursting out of northern eastern canada are determined to break down the Atlantic block. Sooooo close


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,278 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    12z wants to bring a northerly run up to Christmas 🥶



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    We get a northerly but it's dry and it's swept away by the Atlantic 24 hour later, better than nothing I suppose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭bazlers


    Mmmm thats a pretty powerful block it it can stretch further north.. 1045.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,656 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    The GFS precipitation for that time suggest it won't be dry and there maybe some snow around, however these charts are very unreliable. Interestingly enough the UKMO update backs the GFS idea of transient northerlies or northwesterlies, if we are lucky one may fall on the big day but no sustained cold spell in the offing due to the Low heights up north preventing our high going north. Grr.



  • Registered Users Posts: 912 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    Gfs ensembles mean reflecting that shift to NW flow. Latest compared to morning run


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    The 10 day chart from this evenings ECM looks better then this morning at least. Hopefully a sign of better output later this week. May come to nothing or perhaps something decent or at least seasonal for Xmas.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Things probably will change from the 20th of December. We have currently moved from phase 4 to 5 in the MJO, possibly why the NAO and AO have gone fairly positive and blocking has disappeared. We will soon be entering phases 6 to 7 just before Christmas which can have a chance of increased blocking so interesting things could develop between Christmas Day and New Years.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭Dazler97




This discussion has been closed.
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