Gardai now best paid workers in the state - CSO

Padraig Mor

Interesting stats released by the CSO here, reported by the Irish Times here, particularly in view of the now globally acknowledged policing - free lawlessness of Dublin, and perennial claims that Gardai are poorly paid. Across the broad categories of workers as delineated by the CSO, Gardai have now rocketed to the top of the list with average total earnings (including overtime etc) of €1579 - equating to annual pay of over €82,000, up 16% in a year. Total of basic pay vs premium pay is not recorded but given that Gardai also have the highest number of hours worked per week (45.9), it's safe to say that premium payments contribute substantially to their pay packets. With the background of controversy over Garda rosters, note that it's been previously reported that "the new [current] rosters proved hugely popular. Because Garda members were working for 12 hours, they were eligible for more unsocial hours allowances." I guess now we can see just why they want to keep those rosters! One has to wonder though whether such high payments represent value for the taxpayer given the many, many stories of lack of interest by Gardai in pursuing even the very basics of policing. Note also that, for all the talk of collapsing Gardai numbers, it's the same now (14300) as a year ago, and only down 200 since pre Covid times.

One thing to note is that the payment figures represent the average of all grades in the organisation. While this inevitably brings claims that the average is significantly increased by a few top Gardai, this is not the case according to separate stats released previously by the Gardai - as the large majority of Gardai are at 'rank and file' Garda rank, their average is likely to be not hugely below the overall average.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058324821/gardai-now-best-paid-workers-in-the-state-cso

Pay scales are here:https://www.gra.ie/documents/PayScales.pdf

Any of that pay you would describe as high?

I think most people, the ones I have talked to is said serious understaffing is the issue. Hence why the high number of hours worked per week.

The pay scales for everyones in government/public sector are available and if you researched them(quick google) then you would know that Garda are not highly paid which is the suggestion you are trying to make I think.

If you think the Garda are so well paid then I suggest you go and work for them.

SharkMX

I would want at least double that to be a Garda. There are hard jobs and there are hard jobs.

sniperman

with what garda have to deal with sometimes,they are well underpaid...same for nurses

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058324821/gardai-now-best-paid-workers-in-the-state-cso

Is it still the case that they can retire after 30 years with a guaranteed "Golden" pension too? That is a huge perk perk of the job, or at least used to be, not too many other people could retire by age of 50 or whatever on a nice tax free lump sum of 18 months pay plus 50% of income.

On a funny note, I remember a few decades ago some parents telling their children not to bother studying hard at school or getting a degree, just become Gardai instead. They probably did not want the cost of their third level, maybe they were half joking but they had a point.

Padre_Pio

As above, it's easy to make money with overtime payments.

If the Gardai were fully staffed the wages would come down.

Ten of Swords

Here is an Irish Times article from 2 months ago

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2023/08/31/garda-to-offer-better-pay-for-new-recruits-in-effort-to-increase-and-retain-staff/

Starting pay €34K up to €56K over 19 years. That does not compete at all with most industries or professions in the private sector.

If the CSO report shows a huge weekly average rate then there are 2 conclusions that can be drawn. There could be additional bonuses or premiums being paid to gardai mixed into the CSO figures and/or there are more gardai on higher base rates of pay because they have been serving for several years suggesting there are so few newer gardai on the lower rate.

Smee_Again

Aren't they working more overtime than ever before to make up for the lower numbers of Gardaí?

I'd like to see the median number of OT hours worked.

TheValeyard

You would want your Gardai well paid to attract the best individuals to carry out dangerous and difficult work that it is.

commis chefs and kitchen porters earn more money than a junior member of the Gardai.

They are certainly not paid well.

Also if that €80k figure is before tax etc wouldn’t the take home be around €50-55k?

I doubt there’s many garda on €80k a year either but anyway.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429040#Comment_121429040

They are certainly not overpaid and this topic has come up many times.. but

in general, its neither difficult nor dangerous, in ireland, yes more dangerous than being an office worker, but not a farmer or a builder etc etc

most of it is plodding, monotonous, boring and safe, one of the more dangerous parts is the large amounts of driving being done and thus the change of a crash.

it also had the ability to be rewarding in a way most jobs can't

No doubt somewhat frustrating in parts also, blame the government, but that's the job

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429113#Comment_121429113

If you believe the above , how do you think they certainly arent overpaid?

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429118#Comment_121429118

because of the numbers quoted above

the main issue with being a garda, is well you are one

its has social repercussions.

The hours could be an issue too, but same as many jobs

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428933#Comment_121428933

As the State Pension does not start until 66, a current Garda will not be getting 50% of their former pay directly at retirement.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058324821/gardai-now-best-paid-workers-in-the-state-cso

They deserve every penny having to deal with the general public.

Hodors Appletart

If you work an extra two weeks worth of hours in every four week period, you'd be very well paid also.

This is a nonsense article, with a very claickbaitish headline.

Someone is doing a favour for Drew the way that article is presented.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429093#Comment_121429093

is it not accepted that wherever pay is reported, in any context its gross not net?

Regardless i wouldnt do it for double the pay, hard job imo.

hoodie6029

High pay, that’s why they’re leaving in their droves, low morale and can’t fill senior positions.

Can’t see it getting any better if opinion polls are anything to go by…..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429198#Comment_121429198

I would have to imagine it’s gross wage so before tax.

Geuze

All wages are always quoted gross, as taxes depend on the individual.

Here is the data:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq22023finalq32023preliminaryestimates/

Geuze

Here are average weekly earnings by sector:

On a weekly basis, the Gardai are not top.

Geuze

On a weekly basis, the Gardai are the best paid in the PS:

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429297#Comment_121429297

I'd say the evidence is in the table above.

Every other PS sub-sector has wage fluctuation by about €100 a week over the past 5 years.

Gardai have €500 a week.

That is all allowances and overtime, not basic pay.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429187#Comment_121429187

Plenty of jobs deal with the general public 🤣

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429322#Comment_121429322

Gardai deal with the "general" public.

reactadabtc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428895#Comment_121428895

19 years to get to 55K. Why would you take that job?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429182#Comment_121429182

Can, and do Gardai not still retire with a 18 months tax free lump sum and half salary after only 30 years service?

Is it not a case that between the garda penion and the state pension , they always get 50%?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429322#Comment_121429322

Do those jobs involve arresting criminals and putting your life on the line to keep the peace?

I look forward to your reply 😂

MegamanBoo

I think most of our public servants would be quite well paid, were it not for the housing costs a lot of people face in Ireland.

I'd say there's nothing the government would love to do more right now than give generous wage increases to certain groups of public servants that are in high demand, gardai, teachers, GPs etc.

The problem is they'll then have to increases wages across public pay, which will put further massive inflationary pressure on housing.

So many of our problems stem from housing failures. I guess that's what happens when you ignore a decade of warning signs to increase supply!

El Gato De Negocios

Whatever they are being paid is not enough for what they have to deal with. And the overtime isn't earned for nothing. Guards and nurses should be the best paid of our public sector works but in reality, considering what many have to deal with on a day to day basis, they are probably the worst.

MegamanBoo

Is it still the case that when Gardai finish training they're just assigned to another part of the country?

I'd say that's very off putting these days to potential recruits.

I think typically these days people might see AGS as a job for life which they might go for in their late 20's or 30's. At this point they'd likely have a stronger idea of where they want to settle, or ties with partners or kids.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429494#Comment_121429494

No of course not, that statement would have made way more sense. Your OP was just an odd minimalist statement and could be assigned to huge swathes of professions.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428933#Comment_121428933

Never heard that in my life about not to bother to study hard.

The requirement have come down but still a decent level of education required so to me they don’t have a point if it was true

Plenty of other professions which don’t have a requirements around study and a lot easier than the Garda and a lot better paid

By the closing date of the competition applicants must:

(a)     have obtained an Irish Leaving Certificate with a grade D3 or O6 minimum in five subjects at Ordinary Level*, or

(b)     hold a minimum of a Level 5 Major award (120 Credits) on the National Framework of Qualifications (NFQ), or

(c)     hold a recognised qualification (at Level 5 or greater), deemed comparable to the above in terms of both level and volume of learning as determined by Quality and Qualifications Ireland (QQI)          

AND

(d)     be proficient in either or both of the following:

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429497#Comment_121429497

the pay scales are all available for every job on the web.

Dealing with the public is the reason why none of them are well paid and comparison mean they are not

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429560#Comment_121429560

Really, sure.

So do you think the gardai are worth the money considering the points I’ve raised, or are you happy enough to criticise them?

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429721#Comment_121429721

I've no idea if they're over/under paid to be honest.

Id have to know one personally to truly know.

I remember being a young man working in my local Bank branch pre crash and the amount of gards with multiple rental properties was eye watering.

hymenelectra

That's great news for the 11 gardai still employed in the country.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429847#Comment_121429847

Actually found this on a thread on boards from 2007. God knows why it wasn't archived but how was a Grada buying multiple properties in the boom on 40k max wages?

Pay and Allowances

During the initial 58 weeks training period, €169.46 per week, plus lodging allowance (€68.18 per week while in the Garda College, €115.00 while training in Garda Stations).

On Appointment to An Garda Síochána

Annual salary of €22,523.00 rising by increments to €40,472.00 (July 2004 rates). Rent and other allowances are also payable.

tayto lover

If you have to rely on overtime then you are in the wrong job.

Peter Flynt

The Irish Times .... in the service of FF/FG with lies, damned lies and statistics.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429988#Comment_121429988

The standard reply of every Official Ireland/FF/FG bootlicker on here is to talk about the extra money they can earn from overtime. . . . as if the public sector are the only ones paid for overtime.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429988#Comment_121429988

Or your outgoings are too high?

Cut your cloth and all that.

con___manx1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428968#Comment_121428968

I work the same roster as the gardai and belive me it's not easy to do overtime. Your talking about a 60 hour week then.

mikethecop

That thread sort of blew up in your face there didnt it op ?

just so you know i got paid approx 640 Euro Last Thursday at midnight , mind you i was standing on a street wearing body armor and helmet and worked approx 30 more overtime hours between then and Monday , I ll be working xmass eve and xmass night as well as new years this year instead of being with my family ,

how much do you feel its worth ? how much would you ask ?

Goldengirl

To be fair I think a lot of people would think that overtime is overtime and is not included in annual salary.

It is usually serving some agenda when salaries are published including overtime ,and usually inaccurate generalizing about the amount of such extra work people actually do. And not everybody works 'overtime '.

Why should people not get paid extra for work that is outside of normal working hours ?

Also maybe the gardaí should be applying for danger money after the abuse they got last week and the aggression many face everyday from the clientele they deal with ?

Its not like they are particularly given the tools to deal with such dangers.

I would not like to see armed police on the street everyday but at the same time it's not on to expect people to face such aggression in their work with either no protection, or no monetary compensation .

I suppose by getting rid of favourable rosters and overtime we are doing the general public a favour ,is that the implication ?

Who would benefit from cutbacks? Not the ordinary person but thugs , criminals or others intent on antisocial or criminal behaviour.

I also question the existence of this thread and why now?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429847#Comment_121429847

Yes . Bank officials used to get danger money iirc ...go figure

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430423#Comment_121430423

Not during my stint in a branch we didn't and that was during the peak of so called toger kidnappings.

We'd get emails telling us to change routes home/look our for suspicious cars etc but no dollars.

Padraig Mor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121430309#Comment_121430309

Strange way to look at it TBH. What is very worrying though is the number of people who don't seem to comprehend simple statistics. I've seen multiple posters here who cannot look past their belief that Gardai are lowly paid and fall back to "but but point 1 of the salary scale is €xxx", "I only got paid €yyy", etc. For clarity:

1. These figures are produced by the Central Statistics Office, not the Irish Times.
2. The figures represent the *actual amounts paid* to workers in the period under examination. Of course overtime and premium payments are included - indeed, that's one of the main points - the overwhelming majority of Gardai 'top up' their listed salary by significant amounts (given they've been mentioned multiple times, note the same is true of nurses).
3. Of course they're pre tax figures. People saying they only received €640 or whatever is being disingenuous - the gross figure will be well in excess of that.
4. The ~€1580 weekly figure is the payment received on average by Gardai in Q3 2023. Yes, some Gardai will earn less (especially those earlier in their career). Yes, some will earn more. But given the breakdown of Garda ranks, it is undoubtedly accurate to state that "most" Gardai earned around that figure.
5. I have not said that Gardai get paid too much or too little, although I personally do question whether the public are getting value for money. However, a debate on the issue cannot be had without established accurate facts first - especially given the furore with Gardai refusing to move back from the temporary Covid rosters - because (it seems to me) - it's a handy number for them with guaranteed comparatively large amounts of premium payments.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428895#Comment_121428895

Basic pay is further supplemented by 25%-30% (depending on shift pattern) in allowances. The majority of these allowances are for working "unsocial" hours- nights/weekends/public holidays etc. (Source: Minister Fitzgerald, Parliamentary Question response).

Working these hours is part and parcel of doing a 24-7 job and it is what was signed up for. It is perfectly reasonable that these additional payments are made for working these shift patterns.

The 12 hour COVID working arrangements enhances pay even further - as pointed out by others.

Potential-Monke

Yeah, the overtime money was great, especially if you could get the handy overtime at matches, or festivals, etc, where not much extra follow up work was expected (public order overtime sucked, guaranteed extra follow up work with no extra time to do it). Was great to see the extra few bob come in. But it wasn't worth it. I haven't worked a single hour of overtime since I quit, and I don't miss it (and earning less). I'm earning the initial wage and I spend all my time at home. I can't understand people who think it's a money making job. It's not. It's average at best with some of the worst work available. It's only good if you climb the ranks high enough, and that's not available to most members. Sure, some jobs are more "dangerous", but very few will have actual people out to get you, that's the hard part of a Garda. Just ask D/Gda Donohue, if heaven exists. The higher ups are definitely skewing the figure. Harris is on €250k before additions...