Madame Web

JP Liz V1

Marvel Sony Presents

https://youtu.be/s_76M4c4LTo

Kinda feels more like a tv show pilot

TheIrishGrover

Sweet JESUS that looked terrible. I want 3 mins of my life back. The "acting". The voiceover. I've seen less wooden acting in Pinocchio! That thing about researching spiders in the Amazon is going to be a meme by the end of the week. "My mom was in the Amazon researching spiders when she took an arrow to the knee"

That was one of the worst things I've seen this year... And I've seen half of Morbius

As you said, it looks like a (Expensive-but-almost-immediately-cancelled) TV show. Something that would have been on the CW back in the day.

That. Was, AWFUL.... Where's that Zack Snyder Netflix thing trailer again?

Agent Coulson

Who is Madame Webb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMZqxeaTzZc

ancapailldorcha

Saw the trailer at Cineworld a few days ago. Nothing alluring about it at all. I'd say they're scraping the barrel now but that was the same impression I got with Morbius.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665880#Comment_121665880

The whole concept was always doomed from the start: Venom kinda fluked it with a fairly unique Odd Couple approach that yielded box office success, but Mobius really whiffed it spectacularly. This and Kraven only underlining what cynical, misguided vehicles they all are, ultimately.

Though at least the trailer has yielded some unintentional comedy with its awful appearance and hilariously bad dialogue.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121665994#Comment_121665994

I didn't even know there was a Kraven film. I go to the cinema a lot so that's pretty bad.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666048#Comment_121666048

I think it was pushed back? Honestly I don't think anyone cares either way and maybe Sony are realising that themselves.

If this also flops ala Mobius Kraven might get quietly shoved onto digital, and nothing of value will be lost. Then perhaps these villains can actually get used properly lol

CastorTroy

Wasn't Keaton's Vulture moved to this universe at the end of one of the previous movies?

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121667192#Comment_121667192

Yup, at the end of Morbius and it was a dreadful scene where Keaton didn't even show his face (probably cos it cracked up saying the terrible dialogue)

https://youtu.be/SSZdfsGypXg?si=4Hnc5majeyfQ1GhI

TheIrishGrover

God all these spider-adjacent Sony movies are coming across as the hollywood mid-budget equivalent of a Roger Corman move: Hey, if we don't use these characters, we lose them so let's chuck out a bargain-basement movie until the rights are worth more.

Venom was knowingly fun. But Morbius? Jesus. That Kraven looks cheap and silly while still being humourless.

And this? It looks like Charlie's Spider-angels: "Hey, girls can do action too! Look!" And all the patronising sexism that goes with that. Remember that god-awful scene in Avengers? Note, I'm not even describing the scene or which of the four Avengers films I am referring to but we ALL know which one I'm on about.

Now compare this with the last episode of season 2 of The Mandalorian. A show that has its own faults but when the cavalry arrives and it's all women you think "Oh that's right, never occurred to me that they were all women." It wasn't pandering, it wasn't patronising, it just was what it was.

Both this and Kraven look straight-to-streamer fodder/filler. Simply to add another 4-5 hours of content to wherever they turn up. With minimal promotion and impact.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669210#Comment_121669210

And this? It looks like Charlie's Spider-angels: "Hey, girls can do action too! Look!" And all the patronising sexism that goes with that. Remember that god-awful scene in Avengers? Note, I'm not even describing the scene or which of the four Avengers films I am referring to but we ALL know which one I'm on about.

I see that now that you say it, but my main takeaway was more Sony's anxiety to shout at viewers, "look look, this film definitely has Spider People in it this time!" where even the villain appears to be dressed in a (slightly cheap looking) Spidey suit of sorts. Maybe with the Spider-Verse films doing such a good job at bringing well-known Spider People from the comics into the mainstream like Gwen Stacey or Miguel O'Hara, they figured given they have a bunch of minor live-action ones themselves - why not use 'em? Albeit extremely tangentially.

IIRC, Sony are/were also trying to get a "Silk" movie produced, being another notable Peter NotParker. And if you've no idea who Silk is: she's Cindy Moon, a girl who just so happened to get bitten by the same spider that Peter was bitten by, was raised in captivity & secret for years and I think was a bit of an antagonist for a while. Oh and because "comic books" she had an uncontrollable lust for Peter Parker due to her spider powers. That part will probably get shelved for the adaptation.

Penn

I honestly don't know if it's a joke or not, but I saw on Twitter that Madame Web will feature a twist on the usual "With great power comes great responsibility", and will instead be:

“When you take on the responsibility, great power will come.”

Which would be such an idiotic idea and isn't even a laughably-bad and needlessly-wordy rephrasing of the line like Martin Sheen in The Amazing Spider-Man "He believed that if you could do good things for other people, you had a moral obligation to do those things! That's what's at stake here. Not choice. Responsibility."

"When you take on the responsibility, great power will come", essentially means "If you do good things, you'll be rewarded by getting powers!"

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121666088#Comment_121666088

Agreed. It's hard to see what the point is. You could almost say that of Spiderman himself now that he's been shorn from the MCU. I know it's to do with the rights but it's still crap for the fans. Not sure how much longer Holland fancies the role since his value as an actor has skyrocketed by now.

TheIrishGrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121669511#Comment_121669511

Any worse than?: "Ezekiel Sims, he was in the Amazon with my mom when she was researching spiders right before she died."

Basil Exposition in Austin Powers

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121671210#Comment_121671210

I'd say yes. That Amazon line is bad just because it's awfully written, clunky, and hilariously bad exposition.

The other line I posted, it's like they tried to do their own version of the iconic "With great power comes great responsibility" line, but ended up completely changed the meaning of it to mean almost the exact opposite.

The original line is about having a moral responsibility to use your powers for good. Their version of the line means you should do good things so you are rewarded with powers.

pixelburp

Here's a funny little tidbit I only just stumbled across while listening to a podcast: apparently only days after the first trailer for this appeared, Dakota Johnson changed her agent.

Of course it could have been entirely coincidental on Johnson's part, but it wouldn't be the first time an actor hasn't seen the final product 'til the rest of us did - and was as shocked as well.

... Johnson’s conspicuous jump from WME to CAA in November — just days after a baffling first trailer debuted — raised industry eyebrows, along with a razz in her recent “SNL” monologue describing the film as “like if AI generated your boyfriend’s perfect movie.”

https://variety.com/2024/film/features/sony-marvel-universe-kraven-madame-web-venom-1235884120/

gmisk

First reactions generally abysmal

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/madame-web-first-reactions-premiere-1235823341/

TheIrishGrover

Shocked, I say. SHOCKED!!!!!*

*Not shocked

pixelburp

If this bombs as spectacularly as it threatens to do, I wonder where that leaves Kraven; it's still on course for August (I think?), while IIRC Venom 3 is due November; Venom's probably safe enough given those movies have been the only ones to scrape by - but Kraven suddenly looks an even stinkier prospect.

Penn

It's still insane that half these films ever got the greenlight at all. So desperate to use the Spider-Man rights to make anything remotely linked or referential to Spider-Man, without using Spider-Man, and completely ignoring the fact that what people like in the Spider-Man universe.... is SPIDER-MAN!

Why they didn't just say to Marvel to go make whatever Spider-Man stuff they want and include whatever Spider-Man characters they want, and just give Sony a cut of the profits, is beyond me. I mean Christ.... Morbius and Kraven? They'd be low on the list for who people want as Spider-Man villians never mind having their own "anti-hero" films.

pixelburp

I've seen it confirmed that the now ruthlessly mocked line about "He was in the Amazon with my mom when she was researching spiders just before she died" isn't actually in the final cut of the film, so you'd have to presume Sony had it pulled out of desperate panic over the crazy amount of bad press it created. Bit of a bolting-horse & stable situation mind you.

ancapailldorcha

I'm a lot better at resisting my urge to go to the cinema for its own sake. This looks absolutely abysmal. It appears that I missed out on nothing by skipping Morbius so I'll pass on this as well. Even the Venom films are pretty bad and the bar isn't exactly high.

Hande hoche!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121762827#Comment_121762827

Reminds me of the rebellion line from the Rogue one trailer, wasn't in the final product. Sony seems to have awful luck with some of their decisions.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121762827#Comment_121762827

Dakota Johnson was asked about the line in an interview and what was her opinion on it going viral.

“Why did that go viral? Somebody brought this up, and I have no idea what it’s about,” Johnson said in an interview with HuffPost UK. “But isn’t any sentence out of context…out of context? What a silly thing….’He was in the Amazon researching spiders with my mom before she died.’ That seems like a basic storyline to me, but maybe I’m just underneath it.”

https://www.superherohype.com/movies/566806-madame-web-dakota-johnson-talks-trailer-line-meme-going-viral

johnny_ultimate

I appreciate Johnson’s candid press tour, and honestly I think she’s a pretty good actress with plenty of charisma on screen who just has pretty awful luck with the projects she settles on. Outside a handful of films like The Lost Daughter it’s a fairly lousy run of films, but it’s usually the film’s fault rather than hers.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121762166#Comment_121762166

Of these recent spidey-spinoffs, Kraven's the only one i've been actively interested in. Always liked the character, and it works well as its own standalone story. Decent casting with Aaron Taylor-Johnson and Russell Crowe, and the director's got a great record as well (made Margin Call, All is Lost, and A Most Violent Year). The awfulness of Madame Web (seriously who the fck thought anyone wanted a Madame Web movie?!) and Morbius might well tarnish its reputation long before it even hits the screen though.

gmisk

Currently 23 percent on rotten tomatoes ouch.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121763148#Comment_121763148

Worst case scenario I suppose is Kraven gets a couple of weeks in the cinemas then turns on one of the streaming platforms, fast-tracked to try and recoup "something" through an early transition to digital.

I wonder what Marvel/Disney make of all this; you'd have to imagine the internal memos and whatsapp are spicy when it comes to Sony's little attempted universe of "villains".

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121763185#Comment_121763185

Ah sure who knows with Kraven the hunter, I thought the trailer made it look pretty awful but in a fun way kind of like Venom.

Though I will say Venom has decent name recognition, I don't think many people outside of more hardcore fans would know much about Kraven, in fairness same goes for Madame Web.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121763168#Comment_121763168

18% now

Quite the summary

https://twitter.com/theBurk3nator/status/1757570025676746897

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764127#Comment_121764127

Kraven looked at least it has more purpose and energy I'll admit; not to a degree I'd pay money to see it in the cinema, but definitely had more "something". Madame Web was always off to a rough start as something brazenly cynical given anyone passingly familiar with the character would know her as a wizened, blind lady in a chair - and someone who decidedly does not look like Dakota Johnson.