Life passing by people in their 30s

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273183#Comment_121273183

A family member returned from a year in Australia recently and not only did she not save, she built up a debt level similar to a significant house deposit.

We have lots of choice in our lives,we are entitled to live it as we choose, but all choices have consequences. Not everyone can understand that

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273350#Comment_121273350

Why do you think you can tar an entire demographic because of a single profligate family member?

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273360#Comment_121273360

I wasnt. I was giving an example an clearly stated I was talking about 1 person

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273380#Comment_121273380

And pretended it was representative by implication.

As I said before, this could have been an interesting topic but instead we got nothing but baseless generalisations.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273328#Comment_121273328

And yet, depending on the day of the week and what contract I've signed up for, I work in each of those roles; and when I'm in festival mode, I'm working/dancing alongside all the other "boring people". Over this side of the Celtic Sea, we have exactly the same career opportunities and shortages as in Ireland, as well as many of the same societal challenges. It remains a lifestyle choice, and it is within the reach of just about anyone who's motivated to make such a choice.

timmyntc

Most peoples opinions on this subject are based on anecdote or even general hearsay, whereas the data does not back it up.

Housing is unaffordable for people due to massive asset price inflation relative to wages, not due to avocado toast or too many lattes. This is a position backed up by stats, unlike those deriding "millenials" for being entitled because "my mate goes on 3 holidays a year and then complains about housing".

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272963#Comment_121272963

Oh that is not fairness, that is you trying to bend the world to your own agenda. People have been voting on all of this for decades and SF will be no different because they need the votes just the same as everyone else. We want cheap crap, low taxes and to own a house and anything that gets in the way of that will cost you votes - including cutting off the cheap labour supply.

As for the Irish language it has been on life support for the hundred years and is reaching it's ultimate end. Trying to discriminate against anyone on the basis of their knowledge of it is blatant racism and just shows how far these kind of people will to go with this nonsense especially since most of them would not have a clue what I was saying if I wrote this in Irish for them.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273272#Comment_121273272

I work as an accountant and I am well aware of the profits construction companies are making and yes they can afford to make much less profit and still be doing well. In new estates prices on the exact same type house can go up huge amounts in various phases of the development for no good reason. This is due to 2 things - demand and greed by developers.

The costs of building a council house is huge, The cost of renovating a council house is huge and often unnecessary. At the end of the day nobody is managing costs correctly in housing depts or housing charities - its not their money so its ok to spend it and not get value.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273340#Comment_121273340

I agree FF/FG and SF none of them will make a difference to housing whatsover.

They all make load of promises when not in power and then do sweet FA when they do get in power!

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273393#Comment_121273393

Dont dare come on here spouting actual irrefutable fact! Thats the thing its not actually up for debate , its factual. The thread is meant to be about the social repercussions of that fact. Instead its auld codgers moaning about their relations going on holidays.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273183#Comment_121273183

So many things nowadays compared to even years ago keep people from starting to earn.

Cheap flights - People spending their money more often to go abroad every chance they get.

Coffee craziness - Need I say more. 20 years ago you wouldnt be getting 3 or 4 coffees at €3 each BEFORE you even start the day.

Time in education - Now people seem to spend much longer in education than they used to. Delaying their entry into a career and earnings.

This need to travel for a few years or take career breaks at the beginning of your career.

People getting married / settling down later in life.

All of the things above and more have the combined effect of delaying peoples launch into responsible adulthood.

Things are just different these days, in more ways than just house prices.

Then you have the things that effect house prices. People coupling up to by houses becoming the way to buy a house. Singles cant compete with them. They compete with each other and drive the price up.

Rent controls - These have fcuked rent and purchase prices more than anything else has.

Charities, REITS, even the state jumping in to buy up anything built.

Its all a big mess. Dont know how it gets solved. I actually dont think it will ever be solved. There is a tipping point and we are well past it. there simply are never going to be enough houses to buy from here on. And all of the controls, like rent controls and the like, are only going to increase rents as they are driving investors out. The only investors entering are those backed by lease agreements from the state.

I could go on. But it depressing enough already so I will stop.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273327#Comment_121273327

I asked him how much it costs him. €40 for a wash cut and beard trim. My local barber charges €12 for a haircut and comes to the house and is done with my hair in less than 5 minutes :)

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273476#Comment_121273476

Does he also tell you about his busy weekend banging supermodels?

AyeGer

Someone mentioned earlier Larry Goodman owning 2000 properties, there are many others like him gobbling up properties particularly in the larger towns and cities. An old teacher of mine owns 8 properties. These people drive up prices for younger people,

My first house I had a mortgage of €525 pm for a 4 bed house in a midsized town. I had friends renting in the same town for more money. Paying their rent to a guy who also lived in the town and owned multiple houses.

If we are serious about housing then we need a whole new model. A large percentage of properties should be set aside for purchase by actual homeowners who intend to live in those properties.

JDD

I'm in my late 40's, and had a hedonistic 20's and early 30's, regret nothing. But had to save like a mofo once I got married and had kids - which was bloody difficult with rent and childcare. It was quite the lifestyle shock. In the end, we saved half a deposit and we were helped out by our families to make up the rest. Otherwise we'd still be renting with three kids. We were very lucky.

I have thirtysomethings and twentysomethings working on my team, and I see a real difference between them. Not in their circumstances as such - they are all either living at home or in houseshares. But the twentysomethings are saving already for a property, and two of them have done since their very first jobs at 23ish. They don't drink much (I dunno about drugs), they holiday but not in far flung places, and they are way more mature than I was at that age. I think going through the recession in your early teens can have a serious effect. They all expect to get on the housing ladder at some stage.

The thirtysomethings are different. Their lifestyles are much more like mine was in my twenties. Gigs at the weekend, they all pay gym fees, they all seem to drink in high end places where cocktails are €15 a pop, they all go out to get lunch when they're in the office. And if they are single they're nearly resigned to their fates as regards buying a property, despite most having a chunk of savings. Just not enough to buy the property they want. Now I get it, if you are in your thirties, you're stuck in a bit of a quagmire. You're afraid to buy a one bed apartment, which would probably cost you upwards of €300k, in case you meet someone and want to start a family. Where we work, near the docklands, there were kids toys packing the balconies of most of the high end apartments in the area for years, as most were sold to single people or couples in 2006/2007. But if you want to save for a house, you really need two incomes, or choose to live in Wexford or Louth and commute up to Dublin 2/3 times a week. So it seems they are waiting it out. Waiting for house prices to come down, and in the meantime are trying to have the life that they planned to have (weekends away etc). It's a bit of a dangerous game, as the older they get, the less they can borrow. And they'd have to bank on quite a steep downturn, without the bank's becoming stricter on lending.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273484#Comment_121273484

I think you must live in some sort of fantasy world :) If you dont think there arent lots of people that arent spending that kind of money on grooming products or hair cuts, colour, even teeth or botox, then either you only traveling in circles over 40 years old or you live in a different country.

The amount of young wans where I work not getting lip filler, botox all the time is shocking. Some of them even traveling abroad for teeth or hair treatment. All talking about it as if its totally nromal, which it is getting. The last one was a couple of them went to Turkey to get their lips tatooed. I sh!t you not. I never heard of it before.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273493#Comment_121273493

Many of the people of your teacher's generation took whatever they could grab from both ends.

The generation before them provided them with help and assistance. But then when the teacher's generation got into power, they decided that instead of helping to set up the following generation, they would instead hold onto everything and squeeze as much as they could out of them.

Look at what we had back in the 70's and 80's. Lot's of unemployment but the State built plenty of council houses so that the private market was depressed (why pay a load for a house privately when the council would build one for you and then allow you to buy it over time for below it's actual physical construction cost). That left the private property cheap for those that had jobs.

What is the system now that those people subsequently implemented? Well they tax the younger people and pump that tax into the private housing market to inflate the value of the assets they themselves got.

Your teacher probably had one of those gold plated pensions. A handy full time job that was in effect part time hours. And the security of the job (probably walked into it at 22) allowed them access to credit which they could leverage off and become rent-seekers. The ironic thing is that if that teacher had been in the higher performers among their peers, they would have left during one of the many brain drains.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272857#Comment_121272857

It wasn't necessary, but thanks for proving me correct.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273143#Comment_121273143

Equivalent to Connemara? Yes and no. West of Connemara, you have a few thousand km of ocean and not much else, so that changes things a bit. The further you go into a "far flung corner" of France, the closer you get to somewhere else (which, not coincidentally) is why we settled on the exact centre of France as our preferred location - a consistent 600-650km from every neighbouring country, or a single day's drive/bus/train journey. When I go to Switzerland next month, I'll do it by public transport - bus to the station, train to Paris, train to Basel, train to the village where the festival's being held, walk the last 1km. 60€ each way. My nearly-30-not-letting-life-pass-him-by son went to a water-hockey tournament in Milan last year, same story.

We might live in "the middle of nowhere" but we're not cut off from the rest of the world by any means. Oh, and we've just been hooked up to fibre broadband (the last of the local areas, because we already had really good 4G coverage)

As for "very little work opportunities" - what country are you talking about? Because there are notices and flyers and banners up all over this area offering full time jobs. With French lessons, if you need them. And if you're lucky enough to be in one of the "critical" professions, the local council will probably give you a house and an office/surgery to work from. And maybe a few tens of thousands of euros to get settled. That is the key difference I see: since the 90s, the attitude in Ireland has become very Americanised (?Americanized?) - your home is no longer a home, it's The Most Important Investment You'll Ever Make and it's notional monetary value is paramount. Similarly the arguments for and against childcare/stay-at-home parenting - so often it's framed in terms of "lost salary" rather than what additional value you might be able to contribute to the community by not being tied to a global corporation's working hours expectations.

Over here, property is part of the background: it's who you are and what you do that matters most. We were welcomed with open arms because (a) we were buying an un-occupied dwelling and bringing a bit of life back to this townland of 400 people; and (b) putting our four children into the local school increased the class sizes by 10% and kept the school from losing one of its two teachers. That gave the town council the breathing space to promote our village as a Good Place To Live, and we now have a population of about 500.

The many 30-somethings I cross paths with (and who sometimes end up staying with me for a while) are quite happy to dip in and out of salaried employment, and instead of saving their bollix off so as to be able to buy a 400k house, they'll offer their labour and creativity in return for board and lodgings and settle for somewhere like the 80k place for sale up the road from me. 8 beds, 4 reception, 2ha of land, 5km from nearest (toll-free) motorway. Needs (a lot of) renovation, but all the friends you've made helping other folk do the same will make short - and cheap - work of that.

Edit: I've just seen that the price for that place has been dropped to 60k. :-p

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273520#Comment_121273520

I think the fantasy world is extrapolating random anecdotes to general application.

I could make up an anecdote about a 28 year old living in a hut off-grid and with only a small solar panel who only eats what they grow in their garden who cycles everywhere and doesn't buy any tech or have a phone because they are saving for a house deposit and present that as proof that all 28 year olds have it extremely difficult.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273393#Comment_121273393

financialisation of our property markets has been a catastrophic failure, and we re not alone, many advanced economies are now experiencing this failure, and public policy and the institutions that have been implementing such policies, are dead set on continuing it!

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273541#Comment_121273541

All sounds like a very positive story. I still think it's a bit of a stretch to make out it's easy/seamless route to take.

Id agree that we all just fall into the pattern of life that we're most familiar with ie what you grow up in.

There'll always be people like yourself who go outside those parameters and more power to it but I think moving to a tiny town in France to avail of cheaper property prices and potentially do odd jobs sounds like a much harder path than staying in Ireland surrounded by your family/freinds and buy a more expensive house.

What youre describing is more like what I'll do over the next few years as a holiday home. Only in northern Spain.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273502#Comment_121273502

I remember watching some irish show about doing up a house. Might have been one of the Dermot Bannon ones a few years ago

Was watching it with my mother.

The couple were early 30s and had good jobs. I remember being flabbergasted at what they were planning to spend on the house. But looked like it was going to be extraordinary. The house turned out to be amazing. Marble walls and floors everywhere. Huge wall sized windows. Sound system installed in the whole house. Jacuzzi and sauna room. Gold leaf in the bathroom. They said the kitchen cost €75k alone. They went over budget by around 50%. They said they had to borrow more money from the bank and asked their parents to borrow the extra money and still had to ask their grandparents to borrow more for them. And had to get a few loans off friends.

So heres what happened next.

My mother turned around to me and said dont ever you even think about coming to us with that kind of sh1t.

Always willing to stir the pot, I said why not?

Response - "Ungrateful little spoiled sh1ts decide they want an amazing house they cant afford. They run out of money and put their parents and grandparents in debt. Then they sit there showing the world around their lovely house, meanwhile their parents and grandparents are living with what they earned all their lives, now in debt up to their eyeballs, living on bread and water probably, for two gobsh!tes who cant possibly pay what they borwoed from the bank plus everyone else they borrowed in a reasonable timeframe. This is just two arses banking on everyone else dying soon, so they can have what they cant afford. And the worst part is thinking about their parents and grandparents sitting in fron tof the telly watching this while eating their bread and water. They must be so proud"

That was me told.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271837#Comment_121271837

I know a few people like that. Good solid jobs during the recession, bought houses for very cheap post 2008 when market was at it's lowest. Small mortgages. Now they look down on people who struggled through that period, and laugh at them not being able to buy a house in today's market.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273582#Comment_121273582

Who said anything about "odd jobs" ? Sure, that's what you might do in your spare time, but there are plenty of "real" jobs available too. Our local county town is a hub for aeronautical engineering, if you want to put your physics degree to good use (and many of the ads specify fluency in English is mandatory). Between my house and the local supermarket, there are recruitment ads for specialised builders (especially roofing), mechanics, various roles in the food service industry, general shopkeepering and wait-staff for restaurants. There's huge demand for home-care for the elderly, and a chronic shortage of nurses, pharmacists, dentists, vets and doctors.

Ironically, one of the reasons for that shortage is because it's so easy to get out and to work somewhere else - if you're the kind of person who feels the need to earn Big Money.

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273584#Comment_121273584

But im sure it was utter horseshit. I say their parents and grandparents were quite rich.

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273393#Comment_121273393

This post needs to be put at the start of the thread.

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273582#Comment_121273582

Course its a stretch , the chap moved to feckin rural France. Most irish people have a zero% interest in that.

It's the gods of the market.

Spending habits have little to do with it, not nothing to do with it though, all stereotypes have some kernel of truth.

This is a good example and it is something that is happening wholesale if an individual has a degree or professional capable of giving them an income of 50 to 55k for example and they choose to get a low-level civil services job paying 30k because they don't like their original job that choice is going to have huge effects on their life, it the same with choosing to be in music or art or being an actor.

I have a lot of empathy for those on their own trying to buy who have done everything right, stuck with a job, saved, and still can't get anywhere.

As for young people as far as I can see it is divided between, expensive hair, a cute dog, an expensive car, clothes, and cocktails everything has to be new, both males and females vs everything from pennys or secondhand, board games, cheap fights, Airbnb, saving.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273632#Comment_121273632

I have friends who got deposits from their parents for houses. Not quite in the style of that TV show but their parents were definitely not rich. Once of my uncles even tried to borrow off me (and im pretty sure my parents too) to get money together for my cousin for his house deposit.