Life passing by people in their 30s

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289299#Comment_121289299

Wallow in my misery? I was working abroad in 2012. I'm not going into specific figures but if I quoted my net take home then as being a gross salary in Ireland in 2023, it would still be significantly above what most of ye are quoting as "high earners" here.

That doesn't mean I'm going to be sneering at others and pretending that they could have easily done X/Y/Z. the people graduating in 2012 were the ones who chose their courses in 2008 (or earlier for those coming out with postgraduate degrees). All the ladders were long pulled up.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289361#Comment_121289361

I think that it is natural that over time the number attending 3rd level has increased. It is a high cost country, so you need to have some skills to command a higher paid job. Trades can be good, but I think would be regarded by many as quite a volatile area to get into, just look at the property bust. I think the issue for many is the mindset that university is the end goal, it isn't, congratulations you have just finished 21st century school! You now need to go out and find your niche, use what you have learned to try and find something you are good at that pays well. Nobody cares if you got good grades in university, they aren't paying you to take university exams.

I see a lot of complaints from younger people about competing with immigrants. There are 2 types of immigrants, we have the highly skilled immigrants who come here to high paid jobs, but we also have the lower skilled from poorer countries who regard it as a multi-generational project. These people are willing to live in small places paying high rents, working every hour etc to create a better life for their children. Both of these create additional competition, particularly for our own who are not quite as driven.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289361#Comment_121289361

I have repeatedly seen (usually older) posters proclaiming that parents should be pushing their own kids towards trades etc. But then if they mention their own kids, they don't tend to have pushed them towards trades for some reason............

Libraries gave us power. Then work came and made us free. What price now? For a shallow piece of dignity

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289418#Comment_121289418

Well I don't have kids and don't intend to so I've no dog in this fight.

But seems to me housing crisis and nobody entering trades goes hand in hand.

Poetry won't keep people warm at night.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289361#Comment_121289361

That's the crux of the matter, college for everybody has changed the parameters, it started from the 1980s onwards. That's where the main poster in this thread is going wrong they thought a college degree in Dublin = middle-class income a STEM degree is slightly different but only slightly. I know someone who did an engineering apprenticeship and then college they are on a very very good salary. To sum up, when access to something is made easier it lowers the value of the something.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289398#Comment_121289398

I’m not sneering at anyone but to say that the challenges of 30 somethings is all down to how high the property market is now and the lack of housing supply is just not correct - past decisions as to what they did or didn’t do post college does have an influence on where they find themselves today.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289441#Comment_121289441

That wasn't the point. There is nothing wrong with doing a trade. The point is that many of those who exhort others to push their kids into that route, don't think it is good enough for themselves. Would you do a trade yourself? Or manual labour?

People going on about tech etc. I can tell you that a lot of jobs that people work in today won't be being done by people in 4 or 5 years. Other roles will evolve but many of the people doing what they think are "tech" roles today don't have the capacity to take on those other roles. The more "hardcore" ones will be fine. The ones that think they are programmers because they know how to google to find how to write a few lines of python to import library X and blindly call some functions from it might be in for a land. NLP models can already do that very accurately today. Probably more accurately than most of those people.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289474#Comment_121289474

I'm pretty happy with my lot in life but 100% would have gone the trade route.

I've never thought about it more when we bought our shell 10 years ago. The cost and hassle of the renovation would have been 10 timed less if I'd been I'm construction myself.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289467#Comment_121289467

To make out that someone coming out of college at 2012 should have been in a house 6 years now is not really fair. I am sure everyone will have an anecdote on Jimmy-down-the-road's-cousin's-friend who bought 5 houses in that time. But it has to be recognised that it was relatively bleak for those landing out then. I think it was quite common for people to decide to stay on to postgraduate study simply because there was nothing else for them at the time

I used to notice a marked difference when I came home to visit compared to before the crash. I wouldn't be blaming people for going to the likes of Canada or Australia to try to find work for a year or two. I wouldn't be criticising them for "traveling".

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289361#Comment_121289361

True enough re poor through the decades. In terms of the trades, I dunno what’s happening in that industry. I guess the more educated a society becomes the more that type of work becomes less desirable - I never had the aptitude for a trade but for something like an electrician there’s a huge career path long term - from earning small money leaving school as long as it’s a good quality apprenticeship to owning your own business and employing others years later - or move to management or specialist in a tech firm with further education - you’ll never “not work” unless you’re ill.

Its solid good honest work with reasonable to great financial rewards for the right people.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289488#Comment_121289488

Why not do it now? What would be the major difference between telling the marketing graduate to take up programming and yourself heading off at 7am next Monday morning to start your plumbing apprenticeship? Sure, it would be difficult for you both for the first few years. But after that you would be qualified. And at that point your salary would be the same as if you had qualified 20 years ago.

mariaalice

The down turn did change things a lot a not insignifent amount did Australia New Zealand then Canada one after the other because they knew had very little chance of getting a job here, by the time they came back everything had taking off like a rocket including property prices.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289497#Comment_121289497

I haven’t criticised anyone for travelling- indeed I’ve highlighted in a post above that travel and work in your chosen field to gain experience and indeed money is an excellent way to progress a career - many have “travelled” and did small jobs to keep them going - the point I was making was that the clever ones travelled and worked in jobs that gave them skills and experience based on their studies

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289441#Comment_121289441

I don't see how they go hand in hand. I'd make less in a trade than in my current role but my risk of injury would be significantly higher. Trades aren't a paean. They can be very fruitful careers if you learn what you need and then move to having your own firm but some of them can take a heavy toll on one's body over the years.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287153#Comment_121287153

Now that ive finally decided to start saving properly, the further away i am from Dublin city center the better :)

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289535#Comment_121289535

Well you did give that impression

If instead they decided to “travel” and do casual work to keep themselves going, unfortunately they are probably now finding things quite tough. The clever people travelled but worked with the qualifications they had, building up experience be it in nursing technology etc - so you can travel AND make money And grow your career in your 20s but it’s down to the skills you have- someone leaving college with a basic arts degree is kindof fcked if they do the travel thing as they’re no bloody use to anyone - yes a few lucky ones with contacts and the personal skills will succeed but they’re the exception not the rule .

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288924#Comment_121288924

So I'm one of those people in tech that you despise and I'm about the same age as you. I lived in Dublin for a few years, I had to share cause I wasn't willing to pay extortionate rates of rent. Over time I became miserable there and moved. Could afford rent to live on own but I was not in a major city. Eventually moved to Cork, had savings to afford a house but it's far from high end or anything.

Reality is I would not move back to Dublin even if I sold up. I could probably put together funds to buy something but my quality of life would drastically decline. So I'd recommend getting the **** out of Dublin and trying something different. You'll have more disposable income and you will put self out of comfort zone.

Also, nobody looks down on renters, it's the bloody norm for most young people and I have friends who rented well into their forties and they were in relationships.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287696#Comment_121287696

What caused it was after the crash many thought it was great (and it was) to rent for cheap. Then nobody wanted to buy so building basically stopped.

Move on a few years and rents started going up, but instead of building they tried to control rents which was the worst move they could possibly have made, but - populism prevailed. The rest is bad decision after bad decision all building on top of the populist idea of controlling rents and bringing in tall sorts of idiotic one sided tenancy laws.

Only way to make it work for landlords was to charge higher rent, but they couldnt so they are all getting out. Supply is effected and knock on effects galore on both purchasing and renting property.

It all started with trying to control the rental market. Instead of correcting it they controlled it even more with every year that passed. Now we are where we are.

Sunny Disposition

Jobs for tradesmen are going to get far scarcer in time, technology is going to upend the construction sector in a huge way. Modular building is going to change everything within 15 years. It will also reduce prices, which is not before time.

IT jobs are going to vanish too, AI will have made many more jobs unnecessary by 2033. To an extent we might be going back to a time when a good general education is what's needed, because very specific roles are going to be upended by AI. Will there really be a need for auditors in 20 years for example?

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289525#Comment_121289525

I presume you're just being antagonistic now.

As I've clearly stated I'm happy with my lot in life. I've a good career and a home.

I never said to tell people who have gone through their degree to start a trade.

Altho certainly makes more sense at 24 than 38 but let's not let that get in the way of your rant.

I simply said the increase in 3rd level that I saw for dublin postcodes over the last 20 years is huge and trades are surely the area suffering and oh look, we've a housing shortage.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289576#Comment_121289576

That's not really an accurate reflection of what happened. Building stopped at the time of the crash. Because it was the "crash".

There would be no need for rent caps if the government had not spent a decade massively and artificially inflating that market by pouring public money into the pockets of landlords and property owners. But that is a topic for a different day.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289627#Comment_121289627

It's not a rant. If you wanted to do it you could.

Why is it good enough for others but not yourself?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjJCHQ_Igq4

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289628#Comment_121289628

How is the government pouring money into landlords and property owners? I seem to be missing my share.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289536#Comment_121289536

Sitting at a desk for 10 hours a day isn't great on the body longterm either.

Id put money on an active job being waaay healthier for you longterm than a sedentary one.

Same for any job, if you just turn up do the minimum and leave then you won't go far.

There's also the added bonus of cheap labour and DIY on your own house and the carry over of skills moving abroad and getting work.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289644#Comment_121289644

Sitting at a desk can be offset by exercise in one's spare time. An injury in a trade stops you from working altogether. It's on healthier until you get injured or have an accident. There's a reason trades pay well.

There's no reason to do more than the minimum in most positions. If there's a chance of advancement or bonuses then sure but otherwise, it's empty talk to dupe people into doing free work.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289636#Comment_121289636

Because I'm extremely well paid in my current career choice and I enjoy my work life balance that I've achieved through hard graft in my earlier working life.

If you can't see the difference between me saying a trade straight from school is a decent option and me starting an apprenticeship at nearly 40 when I've a great career then I'm afraid I really can't help you.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289656#Comment_121289656

I don't agree with any of that tbh. But we'll agree to disagree.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289668#Comment_121289668

Nothing wrong with that. My aunt married a plumber decades ago and they're rolling in it. It can absolutely work out for some people.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289639#Comment_121289639

Couple of billion a year poured into it through rent supports and schemes and also in the purchase of property from the private market. I think that half of all private renters get subsidsed in some form or another because the renters can't afford those rents. Remove those supports suddenly on Monday and what do you think would happen to rents that private renters (who aren't even receiving the supports) are paying?

Unless I am mixing you up with another poster, do you not work in financial markets? So you should understand the basic idea of what happens when money is pumped into a market

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289661#Comment_121289661

You don't even see the irony. 🙂