Will Andy Farrell get the adoration Jack Charlton got?

ottolwinner

Not sure it’s a pure rugby question, more a national pride question. What are the opinions?

the.red.baron

If he wins a world cup yes

17togo

For getting to quarter finals in a tournament played at an elite level by a handful of teams?

Rugby fans will no doubt talk of him as the second coming of Christ.

Personally I think it won't compare to what Jack and that Irish team did for the country.

But I hate Rugby and everything that comes with it and will enjoy it if they lose, so probably not the right person to be responding to this. 😁

Strumms

Jack was Ireland manager for 10 years, Farrell about 4 years in charge of Ireland.

Jack managed a team in a sport multiples more competitive…

Xander10

He is a legend to me anyway.

Not bothered what non-rugby people think

ottolwinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207620#Comment_121207620

I’m not a massive rugby fan and never played it but curious why you hate it so much?

Seamus4life

Ironically there were more Irishmen in jack's team than Andy's.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207620#Comment_121207620

No for becoming a father at 16. Surely that makes him the ultimate lad?😝

Pauliedragon

The big difference is we went into this world cup as 1 of the favourites. We are expected to do well. Anything short of of a semi final would be deemed as a failure (with the caveat the draw was a farce). Italia 90 just qualifying was a success story making the quarters was a massive bonus.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207620#Comment_121207620

If the new feckin Boards allowed me to multi-quote, this post would make more sense.

Speaking as a rugby fan, no. He will not get Jack Charlton status, because, football is universal, its so simple that you can play it anywhere, with anything. I remember playing "football" in the small concrete square outide the school using a crushed coke can as a ball.

I agree with 17togo, Jack Charlton did something for the country when it needed something. He brought hope after years of hopelessness.

Things are tough at the moment in ireland, rising living costs, but plenty of jobs around. Yes accomodation is bat-shyte crazy but life is manageable. From what Ive been told of the 80's there was no hope of anything good happening, and Jack, brought something good.

todolist

no.his team loses to new zealand.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207661#Comment_121207661

 From what Ive been told of the 80's there was no hope of anything good happening,

As Oliver Callan or somebody said, "All we had was Maurice Pratt, Pat the Baker and Philomena Begley"

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207620#Comment_121207620

Versus what like, a sport played by no elite teams in the country

Or a sport with no international outlet

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207632#Comment_121207632

We beat romainia...

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207678#Comment_121207678

I was 6 when Italia 90 happened. I just remember it being a thoroughly boring time. The TV was permanently on the soccer channel. The adults were getting lubed up(drink wise), before, during and after, and there was nothing else to do. I watch a game now and it flies along, but when you are 6, 90 minutes seem interminable.

Mr. teddywinkles

No song yet so. Were all part of Jackie's army.

SuperBowserWorld

Italia 90 was a party just to be at the competition. And summertime and much more frequent matches etc. Lots more variety of countries involved. Was a real novelty.

The rugby team have to win this one or people will be disappointed. Totally different experience and pressure. It's like the leaving cert.

17togo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207647#Comment_121207647

I actually find it hard to put a finger on why I actually dislike it so much now. I used to like it growing up and into the early noughties. I used to love Simon geoghegan and everyone loved Jonah lomu.

Nowadays, it's the over the top media attention. They've been more hyped by the English football team over the years. And we used all complain and laugh at the English hype and then revel in them crashing and burning.

It's the lingo and the fans, fans that seem to be experts in the "gain line" and rucks and off loads (a pass 🙄) but wouldn't watch proper club rugby if you paid them.

It's the residency rule. It's the general poshness of it. And the pass the players get from the Media. A few years ago a certain Irish player pissed on a guy in a bar in dublin, **** all was said. Imagine if once of the soccer team did that. But because he was one of our hero goys, he got a pass in the media.

It's Neil Frances and his sport of the people remark! Just the general elitist pedestal it's put on!

And Johnny Sexton, my god he seems like such a wanker.

Was having this same discussion with a friend from home recently and he said I'm listening to those Leinster D4 lads too long. He might be right. 😁

Turns out I could put a finger on it afterall! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

ottolwinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207810#Comment_121207810

I think your last line was the response I was going to give your post but self correction is always good.

yea I totally get ya. I’m not a massive fan but I suppose all those things that annoy you pass me by I don’t even pay heed to.

I was more thinking if the Irish Team win the tournament will Andy Farrell be revered by the Irish public. Rugby seems to draw great divides as much as it seems to draw unity

Pherekydes

Type your comment

Pherekydes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207690#Comment_121207690

It was a draw. Didn't win a single match in '90

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207810#Comment_121207810

You dislike the armchair fans, the over the top media attention, nowadays aka the media. You dislike the elitism - I dont get why trying to be the best is a bad thing, but ok. Johnny Sexton is Rugby's answer to Roy Keane. Top of his class and can be a prick when he wants to be. I think you'll find that in all sports.

Padre_Pio

A

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207620#Comment_121207620

I'd argue that football is played at an elite level by a handful of teams.

Brazil

Germany

Argentina

France

Italy

Spain

Dr. Bre

If we get to a final then yes. Only about ten countries are good at rugby

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207810#Comment_121207810

Too funny. Nothing to add, but this did make me laugh

Damien360

You are not comparing like with like.

The Ireland rugby team supporters have a superiority complex with expectations of winning the tournament with good players.

The Ireland football team of that era had an infreiority complex despite good players.

We hadn't a hope of winning in football but every win was a success.

Irish Rugby is at peak world class currently. Expectations are much higher so Andy Farrell will never achieve cult status.

Rugby is still a little bit too niche. Has not got the wide spread appeal of soccer. Also times have changed since Big Jack's era, there was bugger all else to follow/watch back then

GSBellew

He won't but he should, I'm not a Rugby fan, but I have been watching the games, it is great to see an Irish team being successful.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207895#Comment_121207895

Possibly, but it's much harder for a small country like Ireland to get to and go deep in a soccer world cup than it is for the rugby team.

There is a massive drop off after the top 8 or so in rugby that doesn't exist in soccer.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207955#Comment_121207955

Its maybe not politically correct to say this but GAA has an impact too. In Spain, Italy, Brazil, etc there is one sport* - football. As a small country our elite sports people are divided between Gaelic Football, Football, Hurling, and Rugby.

*Yes, I know they have other sports in those countries

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207690#Comment_121207690

We got to a World Cup quarter final…

Zaph

People are ignoring the fact that before Italia 90 there was Euro 88. That was the first time that Ireland had ever qualified for an international soccer tournament and it was brilliant craic. The amount of goodwill towards Jack and the team after that was huge, and when he managed to steer the team to the World Cup it went into overdrive. Even more so as the team then progressed further than anyone ever dreamed it could. The current rugby team are elite players, nobody could accuse Chris Morris, Andy Townsend or Kevin Sheedy, decent as they were, of being anywhere close to the same relative level. So to get to the quarter finals of the World Cup with a squad like that deserves far more adulation than doing well, or even winning the tournament, with the number one ranked team in the world.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207955#Comment_121207955

I don't know how true that is either.

Irelands rugby team is no1 in the world, and has consistently performed well for 15+ years. That's not an accident or chance.

I get there is a large gap between the top 10 and the rest, but the same is true for soccer too. I'd say 8 of the top 20 international soccer teams have never gotten a sniff at a world cup, and Rep of Ireland isn't in the top 50.

Also, the same teams that are top 10 in soccer like Argentina, France, Italy and England are top 10 in rugby too, so all things being equal, Ireland shouldn't feature.

Soccer would be far more popular than rugby by a long way, but it's not reflected in the performance of our international teams.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208008#Comment_121208008

Soccer and rugby are very different. Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales are all ranked in the top 7 in the world in rugby. And those other three teams are considered to be on relatively bad form in recent times. But given that the sport is barely played to any real degree outside of these isles and some other countries you can count on one hand, it's barely imaginable for Ireland to drop out of the top 8.

Whereas in soccer, there are dozens upon dozens of competitive teams. Sure, there are 10ish "superpowers" that almost always win, but that's because the bar is so high at the top, not because other countries don't play. Also it's a major stretch to say the top teams in soccer and rugby are the same. As I mentioned, Wales and Scotland are near the top in rugby and nowhere in soccer. And where are Germany, Brazil, Spain, Holland etc in rugby?

Even getting into the top 50 in the world in soccer is a good achievement for a country the size of Ireland, never mind getting to a world cup quarter final.

Fr Tod Umptious

It happens every RWC or when Ireland are winning a Grand Slam.

People trying to compare rugby with soccer, and even worse rugby success with soccer success.

There is no comparison.

The top 12 teams at a RWC automatically qualify for the next RWC.

In soccer the top 1 team at a world cup doesn't even qualify for the next one.

bucketybuck

Jack Charlton was a huge part of the cultural zeitgeist of Ireland at the time.

Andy Farrell hasn't even emulated Joe Schmidt yet.

And if they lose on Saturday then he will just be yet another Ireland rugby manager who won a 6 nations but couldn't cut it at the big boys table.

If he does win the world cup, he still won't emulate Charlton because the world isn't like that anymore, a week later the event junkies will have moved on to the next bandwagon and Farrell will be yesterdays news.

lbunnae

Considering many in Ireland don't know his name. Then I would say no. I love the rugby team though.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208453#Comment_121208453

That's very true

It was a different era.

If Charlton came along in this day and age and got a team that had never qualified for anything to a Euros and world cup I don't think he would even get the adulation he got back then.

No chance a rugby coach or team gets it.

SEPT 23 1989

I would say that half the country don’t know who Andy is while Jack will be written about in the history books of this country for centuries to come

jippo nolan

Were all part of Andy’s army!

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207652#Comment_121207652

There really wasn't.

Tom Mann Centuria

If Ireland win the Rugby World Cup he's guaranteed to get a yearly slot on The Late Late show.

So it's not all good news.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208559#Comment_121208559

Ok let's try and see, I don't know the answer so I'm not trying to argue one way or the other.

I'll use the current RWC and Italia '90 as the sample.

Irish born* players in the Italia '90 squad.

Bonner

Stan

Moran

Whelan

O'Leary

Quinn

McGrath* was born in England but grew up in Ireland so I'll include him as well

Seven out of 22, 31%

Rugby 2023

Irish born* players

I'm not even going to bother counting because it's more than 31% just glancing at it.

Big Bag of Chips

I'd consider myself an "average" person. I was a primary school child during Euro 88 and Italia 90. Until "We are the Boys in Green" I didn't even know of the existence of an Irish soccer team. I had never heard of Jack Charlton. By Italia 90 I knew who Jack Charlton was and could name the entire Irish soccer team.

Reading the thread title here I thought Andy Farrell was the current Ireland (soccer) manager. I then googled the current manager and recognise his name, but could tell you nothing about him. I'm not sure I could name many/any of the current Irish soccer team.

The Jack Charlton era was a different time and a different world. The whole country knew who Jack Charlton was. The whole country jumped on that particular bandwagon and got caught up in it all. As I said I consider myself to be an "average" citizen. I'd say the "average" citizen doesn't know who Andy Farrell is, and couldn't name many of the Irish rugby players.

So I'm going to say "No" to the question posed in the thread title.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208607#Comment_121208607

Let's see. Jgp, Lowe, hansen, aki are the players I can think of at present that are playing through the residency rule the rugby world cup.(squad of 33).

Edit: Plus McGrath was 10000% Irish. His place of birth doesn't matter.

Would you consider heaslip or o'gara non Irish?

How many players at this world cup play outside of Ireland?

robbiezero

Pointless discussion right now.

Jack took the Irish team to places it had never even been close to before.

Andy has taken the Irish team to where they have almost always gotten to. They are in the last 8 out of 9 teams, the absolute bare minimum expected of an Irish rugby team.

Maybe in a few weeks, it might be a bit of a discussion, but if Ireland lose next weekend, then Andy is going to be very quickly forgotten.

spakman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207810#Comment_121207810

I like rugby and love watching this Ireland team (yes, a bandwagonner, everyone loves following a winning team), but I completely empathise with every point in the post above.

I just ignore all the shite I dislike, which includes TV analysis - cant be watching the likes of Shane Horgan or Jamie Heaslip!

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121207620#Comment_121207620

On reading the title, I immediately wondered had Kenny been sacked.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208654#Comment_121208654

Where are you getting 9 teams?? 5 of the six nations and NZ, SA and Oz? Edit Argentina

Larbre34

We're 35 years on from the Charlton era, the Country is basically a different Universe than the Italia 90 I remember as a 14 year old.

1990 was the emergence of the Country from the economic doldrums, unemployment, emigration, greyness. The football team became a totem, a beacon of hope.

Thats just not needed now and rugby isn't as universal as soccer was and is.

And so if Ireland won the rugby world cup, it would be a massive achievement by the players and coaches and the model that the IRFU have developed and got behind, but would it be life changing for the citizenry of Ireland? No.

the.red.baron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121208682#Comment_121208682

Universal in what way