Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533337#Comment_123533337

In the most democratic state in the Middle East, apparently…

With the most moral army in the world, also apparently.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533347#Comment_123533347

Do Israelis use child soldiers, launch rockets from the roofs of schools and hospitals, throw gay people from skyscrapers, redirect aid for their own people to build tunnels and launch attacks on neighbouring countries?

While I'm no fan of Israel, Hamas are far far worse in almost every sense and are possibly the worst thing to ever happen to the Palestinian people

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532983#Comment_123532983

David Mencer certainly did work for David Lammy. He was his campaign director for his London mayoral campaign.

The same David Lammy who condemned as racist, speculation as to whether the smoke from the conclave of cardinals was white.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-21764636.amp

Odhinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533403#Comment_123533403

You've a source for that claim re the gay people?

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532990#Comment_123532990

You may think him a dick but he does buy his own clothes. He also is unequivocal in recognising that denying food, water and medicine to an entire population is a war crime.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533403#Comment_123533403

throw gay people from skyscrapers,

I've read this a few times; did/does this happen in Gaza/West Bank? I am aware of IS(?) doing this in Iraq but there was a video circulated that was purported to be Palestinian but was, conveniently, mislabeled.

Hamas are far far worse in almost every sense and are possibly the worst thing to ever happen to the Palestinian people

Israel have committed documented war crimes before and after October 2023. They've committed multigenerational oppression and acted with violent impunity against a civilian populace; yet people will go out of their way to make excuses for them.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533403#Comment_123533403

I'd imagine being at ground zero when a 2000lb Israeli bomb lands is probably worse.

Though in fairness, you wouldn't know anything about it as you are instantly vaporised.

The IDF use human shields, anally raped a prisoner with an iron bar, sniped nuns, even sniped sheep, sniped civilians waving white flags - even three of their own hostages, set an attack dog on a Down's syndrome boy and left him to die, alone, allowed neonates in incubators die and decompose, executed 15 medics and buried them and their vehicle in a shallow grave.

Israel is a country mile worse than anything visited upon the Palestinians by anyone.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533289#Comment_123533289

It’s interesting how Israel blowing up and burning children is explained away by blaming Hamas for using “human shields”.
What is your understanding of a shield and a “human shield”?

“A human shield is a non-combatant who either volunteers or is forced to shield a legitimate military target in order to deter the enemy from attacking it.”

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533460#Comment_123533460

I've read this a few times; did/does this happen in Gaza/West Bank? I am aware of IS(?) doing this in Iraq but there was a video circulated that was purported to be Palestinian but was, conveniently, mislabeled.

I don't have hard proof although Hamas don't deny it happens. If you are looking for free, open and unbiased media in Palestine you might not be looking for it in the right place. The burden of believing whether it is true or not lies with us as a result. No smoke without fire as they say

Israel have committed documented war crimes before and after October 2023. They've committed multigenerational oppression and acted with violent impunity against a civilian populace; yet people will go out of their way to make excuses for them.

Hamas have committed documented war crimes before and after October 2023. They've committed multigenerational oppression and acted with violent impunity against a civilian populace; yet people will go out of their way to make excuses for them.

No side of this war is perfect

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533468#Comment_123533468

This is all according to Hamas yes? Or as some news outlets call it "the health ministry of Gaza"

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533148#Comment_123533148

The only thing the Israelis are allowing into Gaza is weapons for their ISIS affiliated thugs.
Anaesthetic for the amputation of a child’s leg? No, here are some guns instead.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533403#Comment_123533403

Are you seriously asking if Israel “launch attacks on neighbouring countries”?

Seriously?

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533152#Comment_123533152

Or that Israel simply want to ethnically cleanse Gaza. Which senior ministers have stated categorically, multiple times.

Israel are somewhat trying to protect civilian lives in Gaza

Do you seriously believe this?

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533492#Comment_123533492

At the very start of this thread we had posters strenuously argue that footage of dead children was in fact dolls. They argued that it was Hamas propaganda and Israel does not kill children.

Then we had posters arguing that reports that Israel attacked a hospital was a “blood libel” and absolutely false.

Those posters no longer argue that the dead children are dolls or that Israel doesn’t attack hospitals.

Sudden Valley

Israel is much worse for the Palestinians as they have for generations stolen their land and will continue to do so after this conflict, even in the West bank where Hamas is not present.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533492#Comment_123533492

I can only assume you've missed much of the current campaign - the news reports, videos, investigations etc.

The three Israeli hostages executed by the IDF, the 15 medics executed by the IDF and the anal rape of a prisoner was all confirmed and admitted to by, err, the IDF.

Videos taken by IDF soldiers and popped up on TikTok showed multiple executions. So many that Israel warned the soldiers to delete all evidence before they went on their hollybops in case they were arrested for War Crimes.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533482#Comment_123533482

I don't have hard proof although Hamas don't deny it happens.

You stated it. As fact.

"Hamas don't deny it" - what, did you ask them this morning?

If you are looking for free, open and unbiased media in Palestine you might not be looking for it in the right place.

I'm asking you the basis peddling, what now looks like, completely false propaganda that's all too easily peddled by those who simply wish to make Israeli actions somehow acceptable.

The burden of believing whether it is true or not lies with us as a result. No smoke without fire as they say

This makes absolutely no sense. Zilch.

Hamas have committed documented war crimes before and after October 2023. They've committed multigenerational oppression and acted with violent impunity against a civilian populace; yet people will go out of their way to make excuses for them.

If you're going to simplistically re-use my quote word for word with the assertion that Hamas have acted in the same manner, in reference to the multi generational abuse of power along the same scale and time frame as Israel have; I'm sure you will be able to show us all the reasoning and back up for this…..

No side of this war is perfect

Ah well that's grand then. Let the genocidal acts and war crimes continue.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533501#Comment_123533501

If their plan is to ethnically cleanse Gaza they are doing it very slowly. 65k dead (according to Hamas) out of a population of 2m in about 18 months. That equates to around 2% annually. Another 48 years it will take them to finish the job, assuming no births, if indeed that's their plan

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533148#Comment_123533148

This will unfortunately be a significant part of the news for weeks and months to come.

Though I believe the number of white shrouded starved children's bodies will soon outnumber those executed whilst trying to get food.

The emaciated adult bodies will come later.

Desperate and shameful.

Hard to believe there are still outliers who support and justify this.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533527#Comment_123533527

Tiktok… The one news source I never thought of for accurate information

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533535#Comment_123533535

You seem happy enough to take everything hamas say at face value. Do you really think they are being honest?

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533544#Comment_123533544

This is simplistic stuff. Ethnic cleansing is not solely based on killing people. There are multiple methods.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533544#Comment_123533544

Holy Mother of God - I can't believe you actually posted this.

I'm stunned and speechless.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533551#Comment_123533551

You seem happy enough to take everything hamas say at face value. Do you really think they are being honest?

Nice try at misrepresenting what I said/asked.

You made a statement. I asked for some sort of back up/verification. It's that simple.

Edit: What's also evident is the ubiquitous weak fallback of; criticism of Israeli actions leads to the accusation of automatic support for Hamas.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533551#Comment_123533551

Honest you say?

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533551#Comment_123533551

You'd need to ask the IDF soldiers who use it to video their atrocities and give their followers some kind of a laugh I guess.

Do you believe the IDF and the Israeli Govt. are honest?

I could list out pages of corroborated evidence that show the multiple lies told over the 600+ days but I suspect another tired and debunked riposte.

Even Israel states that Hamas Health ministry casualty figures are correct. That would be because Israel requires every baby born in Gaza to be given a unique identifying number. Which sounds familiar of course.

DayInTheBog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533535#Comment_123533535

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533560#Comment_123533560

He's not wrong.

Funny how Israel has moved chunks of the population to safe zones while they targeted Hamas. Not exactly a picture of ethnic cleansing is it. Meanwhile the stated aim of Hamas is to wipe out Israel.

I'm not saying Israel have been perfect in all this but I don't buy into the hysteria that Israel is bad and the " ministry of health " is good.

It's not so long ago we had hysteria in the press with Israel firing a rocket at a hospital. By the end of the day it's disproved and it's actually Hamas firing a rocket and it landing in the hospital car park. All to be neatly brushed under the carpet

In the last few days AlJazera put out video of an Israeli attack on a feeding station in the morning, repeated by mainline media and by the end of the day it's actually footage from another city at a different time of the day than alleged. Again brushed under the carpet.

A doctor reporting the carnage coming from a feeding station caused by Israel. She wasn't even there. She's just repeating the line fed to her by the ministry of health.

The hysteria is irrational. I don't see the same response to all the women and children killed by Russia in Ukraine or the babies killed in Yemen from Israeli and American attacks.

Everyone is believing the Hamas ministry of health reports without questioning it. Makes me wonder do Irish , British , whatever other people support Hamas.

DayInTheBog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533386#Comment_123533386

Perhaps they need to talk to their Hamas leaders about why they sleep refusing every peace deal and tell them they don't want to get bombed anymore.

I'm sure Hamas will always their fears of bombing by putting a bullet in them

Can't have the populace going against their aim of wiping out Israel at any cost

J Mysterio

Israel continue to bomb the 'safe zones', killing men, women and children in tents, and killing people lining up in cages for insufficient 'aid'.

They are slowly herding the Palestinians to the Sinai.

I can't believe you are referencing the rocket attack at Al Ahli when - despite their denials - Israel has actually gone on to destroy multiple hospitals, and 'justified' it.

It's genuinely pointless debating with some of you people, and you are best ignored.

dmcdona

Here are some selected quotes from Ben-Gvir (convicted terrorist) and Smotrich that have resulted in their sanctioning by U.K., Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Norway:

Ben-Gvir:

"The food and aid depots should be bombed in order to create military and political pressure"

"We will encourage voluntary transfer of all Gazan citizens. We will offer them the opportunity to move to other countries because that land belongs to us."

"It is very possible that even after the addition of the new prisons is completed, the many terrorists will still be overcrowded in prison. I have already proposed a much simpler solution, of enacting the death penalty for terrorists, which would solve the overcrowding issue - legislation to which the Shin Bet is also vehemently opposed."

"Occupation, settlement, and encouragement of emigration. Only in this way can we solve the problem of Gaza. To occupy all the land. To settle in all the land. And of course, to encourage the voluntary emigration of as many [Palestinian] people as possible to other countries"

"Why are there so many arrestees? Can't we kill some? Are you trying to tell me they all raise their hands? What can we do with so many arrestees. It's dangerous for the soldiers."

"The only humane solution for Gaza is the mass deportation of its inhabitants."

Smotrich:

"Tulkarm and Jenin will look like Jabalia and Shujaiya. Nablus and Ramallah will look like Rafah and Khan Younis. They too will be uninhabitable ruins, their residents will be forced to migrate and seek a new life in other countries."

"The time has come to completely stop the transfer of humanitarian aid to Hamas, to stop these entrances and exits at the risk of our soldiers, the time has come to occupy the Gaza Strip, to seize territory from them permanently as a response to the terrible massacre and to prevent the next massacre."

"If we hadn't torn Gaza to pieces, no one would be talking right now about how we need to find another place for two million Gazans"

"It is possible to create a situation where Gaza's population in two years will be less than half its current size."

"We won't let them rebuild [Gaza] ... Nothing moves, and what moves - dies. That's all. And is attacked and annihilated."

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533703#Comment_123533703

It's a pity Israel won't let the media in. I wonder why that is. I wouldn't trust Hamas or Israel but you seem to take everything the IDF says at face value.

You stated ealier Hamas is not interested in peace. Well Neither is Bibi.

The IDF uses human shields too.

You wouldn’t dismiss it as just casualties of war if 2000lb pounds bombs were dropped on residential areas of Tel Avi that are close to an IDF building and a hospital . Also deliberately withholding aid is a war crime.