Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532647#Comment_123532647

Even if Egypt does, Israel will not open their side. So probably moot.

The publicity may match the recent events off the Gaza coast but this Haaretz opinion piece does make good points:

"The flotilla activists will go home heroes, having looked straight into Israel's blockade and earned the badge of honor that comes with time in an Israeli holding cell.

Israel's government will count the affair as a hasbara win – a bloodless interception of self-aggrandizing but impotent foes.

Everyone played their part, and everyone got their bouquet of flowers and a round of applause. 

And Gazans will wake up hungry again tomorrow"

Linda Dayan

Hellrazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532188#Comment_123532188

Ive already said I absolutely condemn what Hamas did in October 2023.

However I can see what brought them to this extreme reaction.

Palestinians have been under the rule of Israel for decades where Israel hold all the power.

Israel are capable of turning off the electricity, the water , the food chain when and how the see fit and that has been going on long before October 2023. I witnessed it first hand when I visited Israel in the late 90s - the Israelis just decided to turn the water and power off for a few weeks at a time.

What happened in 2023 was a reactions albeit an extreme one to the way the Palestinians have been treated for decades by their more powerful neighbour and Id wager that any country treated in a similar fashion would resort to extreme measures.

I dont support what they did but I can understand it. That doesnt make me an anti-semetic or Hamas supporter which is the way some users on here would describe me after this statement.

Hellrazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532508#Comment_123532508

Also, can't speak for that poster, but I would suggest that he means he can understand why Palestinians would resort to extremism and terrorism in the face of the brutality they have endured. Doesn't mean anyone agrees with it.

I couldnt have put it better.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532720#Comment_123532720

I dont support what they did but I can understand it. That doesnt make me an anti-semetic or Hamas supporter which is the way some users on here would describe me after this statement.

It has unfortunately been the de facto response to many similar posts for a very long time. I was accused in the last day or so of being a Hamas apologist.

It's a tired response that is the only reposte left in the pro-Israeli arsenal.

It simply repeats the Israeli Govt Hasbara since the start of this campaign - they've called everyone who disagrees with them antisemitic and a Hamas supporter/apologist. Even our own President.

That's all Israel supporters have left - name calling. Their position in supporting what's going on in Gaza is morally bankrupt in my opinion.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532747#Comment_123532747

You can see that British guy Mencer doing this all the time

dmcdona

Here's another prime example of how Israel responds to any criticism:

United Nations:

An independent United Nations commission has said Israeli attacks on schools, religious and cultural sites in Gaza amount to war crimes and constitute an attempt to "obliterate" Palestinian life.

Israel:

Israel rejected the commission led by South African judge Navi Pillay as "an inherently biased and politicised mechanism of the Human Rights Council" and said the report was "another attempt to promote its fictitious narrative of the Gaza war".

So, what the world sees and hears every single day about Israeli atrocities in Gaza is pure fiction? That the ICC and ICJ are deluded? That the five nations sanctioning Israeli govt ministers are off their trolleys?

No - attack is the only defence Israel has left because what it has done and continues to do is utterly indefensible and shameful.

https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2025/0610/1517635-gaza-middle-east/

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532774#Comment_123532774

It's so obvious that Palestinian civilians are the direct target of the IDF. Nobody believes for a moment any longer that they are merely trying to kill Hamas members.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532720#Comment_123532720

So if they wanted to fight back against Israelis taking their land, turning off the power, building settlements and the army going into Gaza on previous occasions why did they attack a music festival to shoot the men and kidnap and rape the women?

None of the kids at that festival were doing the things you mentioned.

A music festival for peace BTW.

I'd have thought the reaction would be to fight the IDF and the Israeli army.

Gerry T

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532930#Comment_123532930

Thats a great point. The answer is hamas are terrorist scum and need to be removed, for good.

Now ask yourself. So if Israel wanted to fight back against Hamas, for killing civilians, why did they shoot the men, women, children and babies and rape the men and women.

None of the ordinary people of palestine were doing the things you mentioned.

Ordinary people being controlled by israel for decades BTW.

I'd have thought the reaction would be to fight the Hamas.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123529388#Comment_123529388

David Mencer was chair of Labour Friemds of Israel. He never worked for David Lammy.

the same David Lammy that has just sanctioned two Israeli ministers and cut off trade talks with Israel.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123529537#Comment_123529537

it was orchestrated because Corbyn is a dick and was totally incapable of running a political party, let alone a country.
Thank god it did happen as well, Putin would be running Europe by now.

Bishop of hope

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532701#Comment_123532701

That's a good response in fairness. I, like you have no doubt of Israels intention to rid gaza of Palestinians if possible. It is doing so in probably the most dehumanising way possible too. My hope is that if Hamas remove themselves and release the hostages that Israels chief Allies, the US, UK etc, will then say that's enough, now back off and let the aid in. The fact that Hamas still exist there and are dictating terms of ceasefire is the biggest stumbling block imo. I know they're a spent force, but they're still the fuse for the poor excuses for Israels campaign.

Gaza and its people are the forever sufferers in a basically religious blood feud. If there is any hope I think Hamas have to dissappear. Its easy to be cynical too, Israel are hell bent on ending this with total control of Gaza forever. Only international intervention can stop that.

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123530206#Comment_123530206

And yet again this morning. Every day now, starving people, begging for flour, get shot dead.

https://twitter.com/WAFANewsEnglish/status/1932706940389621997

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532998#Comment_123532998

For certain Hamas need to go. With all the fighting that's been going on the last year I do wonder why the civilian population of Gaza aren't actively seeking out Hamas and throwing them to the Israelis

The fact that it's taken this long suggests that either Hamas have some really good hiding places in a very small plot of land or else Israel are somewhat trying to protect civilian lives in Gaza

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532496#Comment_123532496

The question you asked that guy shows the fact that you don't really understand this conflict. Understanding why terrorists do evil things is important if you want a solution.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532983#Comment_123532983

He sanctioned two personal individuals, not as Israeli government ministers. The UK has not sanctioned anybody in the Israeli government or the government and the trade talks quietly resumed a few days after the 'announcement'. Performative gestures is all they are

J Mysterio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532930#Comment_123532930

It wasn't a 'music festival for peace'. 🤣

It was a trance music festival, taking place right at the border fence of the open air prison.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533168#Comment_123533168

OK so seeing as you seem to have an understanding maybe you can explain how raping young women and driving around the streets of Gaza with the body of one of them was going to further the Palestinian cause?

Worth remembering that hundreds lined the streets cheering and spitting on her body.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533233#Comment_123533233

Actually it was a festival for peace, sounds like you think the young people deserved to be murdered and raped.

Weirdo.

Mod Edit: Warned for personal abuse

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533261#Comment_123533261

sounds like you think the young people deserved to be murdered and raped.

Misrepresentation of words is never a great start.

J Mysterio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533261#Comment_123533261

Care to share a source for that assertion?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_music_festival_massacre

"Supernova Sukkot Gathering was a weekend-long outdoor trance music festival that began on 6 October 2023 and was produced by an organizer called Nova (also referred to as Tribe of Nova). It was the Israeli edition (pre-festival event) of Universo Paralello, a psychedelic trance festival started 23 years earlier in Bahia, Brazil."

Further, evidence shows that many of those who fled the festival were attacked and killed by the IDF themselves. Over 20 Apache helicopters emptied their bullets and missile caches within an hour, firing indiscriminately.

DayInTheBog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532998#Comment_123532998

Hamas have no interest in a peace deal. Their sole aim is to destroy Israel and they'll use as many Gazans as they can as human shields. All we hear about from Hamas is how many are dead,never how many of their fighters were killed because that would defeat their propaganda campaign to tar Israel as the baddies.

Yes innocent Gazans are being killed but it's a war and civilians get killed in wars.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533289#Comment_123533289

use as many Gazans as they can as human shields.

Another day, another misunderstood misrepresentation of what constitutes "Human Shields".

Yes innocent Gazans are being killed but it's a war and civilians get killed in wars.

And this is a woefully inept understanding and acceptance of civilian killing.

Maybe we should have let the RUC/UDR/British Army do as they pleased in the North under the automatic get out of "sure it's a war". Ties a nice bow on Bloody Sunday.

Hellrazer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123532930#Comment_123532930

They should have targeted IDF forces though and not civilians.

I did say that in my original post.The same can be asked of IDF though - if they want to kill / get rid of Hamas why are they bombing hospitals, starving civilians , bombing tent cities that they asked the population to move to.

Hamas = scum.

IDF / Israel = scum.

Both as bad as each other.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533182#Comment_123533182

two personal individuals that are also government ministers.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533152#Comment_123533152

 With all the fighting that's been going on the last year I do wonder why the civilian population of Gaza aren't actively seeking out Hamas and throwing them to the Israelis

Because Hamas have guns? Because the civilians are all just trying to survive? Because the israelies have itchy trigger fingers and so the civilians try to avoid them.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533306#Comment_123533306

That's the thing. If you list out all the reasons that Hamas are bad, it's very clear that hamas are very, very bad.

However if you then ask if the Israelies have done similar, the answer is yes.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533283#Comment_123533283

Attack helicopters, after their first pass, returned to base, reloaded and had a second go. Over 70 cars were shredded.

Israel has not released the numbers of their own citizens executed under the Hannibal Directive.

Haaretz reported corroborated evidence that at the Be’eri kibbutz, a brigadier general ordered a tank to fire shells at a house with Hamas militants and 14 Israelis inside. 13 Israelis were killed.

Yoav Gallant (alleged War Criminal, at large) admitted that the Hannibal Directed had been ordered multiple times on Oct 7th.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533289#Comment_123533289

Care to explain how civilians that are being actively starved to death are somehow dying as a result of war?

That thought process would mean the Holocaust was a result of war and therefore legitimate. Which of course it wasn't. Just like Israeli killing of civilians is also a War Crime.

dmcdona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123533289#Comment_123533289

I can imagine the only thought on every innocent Palestinian's mind is pure survival for the next 60 seconds.

And Israel is tarring itself as the baddy quite well without any intervention from anyone at all.