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Separation

  • 04-10-2023 10:47am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 Tomlad79


    Hey all hoping to get some advice myslef and wife split 10 months ago she has started the legal separation we both agreed the date of 25th November 22 as our date we split , but she has lied on her affidavit and changed it to July 22 to suit her, I had to move out of our family home due to harassment and constantly being followed and recorded by her,we both pay the mortgage 50/50 for roughly 100,000 left on the mortgage , she wants the house in her name now , I would like her to buy me out or the or the house sold when the time is right and we split 50/50 she won’t agree , she earns 20,0000 more than me , do you think the judge would agree 50/50 sale thanks

    Post edited by Tomlad79 on


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Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do you have children? What age?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 Tomlad79


    16 and 14 , I have no problem with the house being sold when they are finished education , my ex wants the house signed into her name now or the house split 70/30 to her when it’s sold but I’m hoping it’s 50/50



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The house won't be sold until both are 18 (or 23 in full time education) - judge won't force any sale (including to your ex) until that point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 Tomlad79


    I have no problem with that it’s the 70/30 that she is looking for in not happy with



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,832 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Not absolute. It might be unusual but it would depend on whether there would be enough to provide a suitable alternative or not.

    For example, in this case, both parties might want the house to be sold but the split could be the sticking point. If there would be enough left to provide a suitable house for the children, the judge could well order it be sold and split in a specified manner

    The date you split does not have to be the date you moved out. People can be "living apart" while living in the same house.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 Tomlad79


    We had a argument on the 22 November which cause the marriage to be over we were good up until that argument , we both agreed that was the date we would used for the separation and the date she told revenue but. Or she changed it to 22 July on her affidavit to bring the separation forward



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,888 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    hang in there, play the long game and agree to nothing,

    if she buys you out now say, her net cash flow will be diminished and your maintenance hit will go up and all the capital appreciation on the house will be in her favour.

    the car move was clever, won't appear as an asset in her divorce papers and she may well try show the bullet payment as a liability but don't let the happen without the car being listed as an asset


    Avoid going to court if you can at all.

    Don't get fixated on 50/50, you need to move on and have a life so don't let 50/50 dominate the battle space.

    I settled at 60 40 in her favour recently without going to court to get it closed

    the 10% of the net proceeds from the house would have gone on a few days in court and 60 40 gave certainty rather than risk it with the judge.

    Re the 70 30 split ask, paper never refused ink

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 Tomlad79


    She turned down the medication that we offered her , on her list of means she has a 6,000 car loan coasting 126 euro a week no mention of the 30,000 That it’s worth , definitely going to play the long game and have no problem with the house being sold when the kids finish education, she wants the house signed into her name , maintenance for her and the kids, a lump sum , basically everything



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭BronsonTB


    'She turned down the medication'

    Only works if both are agreeable otherwise waste of everyone's time. (Not legally binding either)

    Only sign over the house after you get a payment. (And you'll need to check with mortgage bank if they will even entertain taking you off it, banks are nightmare to deal with for anything like this)

    Good luck working it all out....long road...

    Sligo Metalhead



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 Tomlad79


    Thanks and I know it’s only the beginning and she is being hard to work with I’m paying my share of the mortgage and the personal loan we have for work on the house and maintenance, but now she says I can’t call to the house anymore to see or get the kids she is definitely getting nasty



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,059 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    If the house was sold now I believe the split is three ways ie one-third hers, one-third yours and one-third for the kids. Not 100% sure on that though but you could look into it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,832 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    She earns 20k more than you

    Offer that you will quit work to become the primary carer and stay in the house to mind the kids up until they are finished education, at which point it can be sold and you can revisit how much maintenance she gives you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭Alonzo Mosley


    TomLad, the only bit of advice I can give you is aim for 50/50 and nothing less. I was in a similar position 12 years ago and my head was a mess. I didn't want any cut of the house , my head was so messed up. My solicitor said no - go for 50%. If your house is worth €500 doing 60/40 or 70/30 is loosing out on thousands.

    The judge awarded me 50% , no questions asked. We both had similar salaries.

    As it turns out I have I remarried and divorced again. I am starting fresh again and I can tell you the 50% equity will allow me to start again.

    The moral of the story is you never know what your circumstances will be in the coming years so don't sell yourself short, it's your house - 50%.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 Tomlad79


    Thanks for the reply



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 CatLick


    It's in her interests to threaten you and try to dissuade you from taking things to court. Unfortunately when that happens it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and you ll have to go to court... 50/50 is the best starting point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 409 ✭✭holliehobbie


    That’s totally wrong tayto! Children in Ireland can’t even own property for a start.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 409 ✭✭holliehobbie


    There is also the option of the wife buying the husband out so the house doesn’t have to be sold at all!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 409 ✭✭holliehobbie


    That’s wrong to lahinch! I know someone selling a house now and the children are still in primary school!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,234 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Depending on how long it takes the judicial separation to get to a full hearing it might be worth making your own application for divorce in July '24 if the judicial separation isn't finalised by then.

    Get legal advice, but I don't see any point in going through a judicial separation and then a separate second set of court proceedings for divorce before things are finalised (in so far as they can be in family law).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    Why would you sign the house over to her?

    You are paying your half. Don't be walked on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    Your lucky your kids are that age, you won’t have long to wait until you are totally rid of her.

    also don’t agree or sign that ye separated on the date she specified. If ye end up in court she will need evidence to that fact unless you agree and she will be lying in court also. Also your kids will be older again by the time ye can apply for a divorce which will benefit you also.

    don’t sign over the house to her either, on what grounds does she think that should happen.

    maintenance for her? On what grounds is that based on?

    Maintenance for your kids? She is presuming she will be primary carer?

    getting joint custody for yourself you might not have to pay any maintenance for the kids.

    with her attitude you will more than likely end up in court and to be honest ,

    the fact your kids are that age, and she earns more money than you , if she went in to court with that list of demands she might get a rude awakening.

    don’t agree nothing, sounds like are both in good places financially? Kids are not very young , so 50/50 on everything might very well be achievable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    If you have a suitable home for them, there's no reason why your children shouldn't live with you, with you as their primary carer. Your 16 year old is old enough to decide for themselves. What do your children want, where would they be happiest?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 Tomlad79


    Between renting and paying half the mortgage and half a big loan we have when we did work on the house and paying maintenance I’m barely getting by, drives me mad that she would go get finance on a 30,000 merc only a few months ago and now she wants to ruin me with what wants off me

    Post edited by Tomlad79 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Two households cost more to run than one so everybody will have to adjust to reduced circumstances. She may yet end up being ordered to downsize her car to something more cost effective.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,916 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    One thing a judge can't do is order the bank to remove your name from the mortgage - does your ex earn enough to take out a new mortgage big enough to pay off the existing mortgage plus enough to buy you out of your share?

    That's the only way she will get the house fully in her name now, and the Bank have to agree to take your name off it.

    I agree, her earning more than you, she might get a rude awakening in Court.

    Keep in mind, as the lower earner, you can also apply for spousal maintenance from her!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 409 ✭✭holliehobbie


    Spousal maintenance isn’t really a thing in Ireland anymore! Otherwise my ex would have applied for it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,916 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Yes, I know.

    But he can make sure she is aware that as the higher earner of the two, it's more likely she'd be ordered to pay spousal maintenance to him instead of the other way around! Especially if they share custody 50:50.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,916 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    How many years is left on the mortgage?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 Tomlad79


    18 years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,916 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    That is a long time to be left paying a mortgage with someone.

    If the house was to be sold now, I agree you should each receive 50%

    But if a property adjustment order was made in Court that you stop contributing towards the mortgage NOW and she take over the full payments, in return for you receiving a smaller percentage of the equity when the house is eventually sold in maybe 10 years time, (allowing for kids to finish FTE) would you consider that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 Tomlad79


    I think this would be a good option for me as the mortgage is only 500 a month



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,916 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Fair enough! Make sure you get good legal and financial advice - especially if you want to try and buy again in the interim.

    Best of luck.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    Must have been some arguement, what was it over?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 Tomlad79


    House is valued at 320,000

    i worked long hours late shifts so she could go to college in 2016 so she could get a job that pays the money she is on before that she only worked part time cleaner or waitress type jobs now she works in sales

    when we got the mortgage I was working 45 hours a week and she was working 20

    her parents gifted us 25,000 towards the house and the day we signed with the solicitor she was told this money was a gift and she could not look for it back if we ever spilt , but now she wants it back

    Post edited by Tomlad79 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    she sound like a nightmare, it’s rare I would say go to court, but you might be better off to be honest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,006 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    For someone that's been on the forum for 13 years you should know better than asking questions like this; you know well that literally has nothing in a sense of helping the OP. Why even ask it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,916 ✭✭✭Ezeoul




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭Alonzo Mosley


    Guys, just a question for everyone. Is it correct that when you go to the family court in a separation or divorce case or a maintenance hearing, is the amount of maintenance the judge orders is for the upbringing of the children?

    Am I correct is saying the judge makes the order and then it's up to the other person living in the family home to pay the mortgage. In short the judge doesn't make an order to pay the mortgage but rather to give to the spouse with the intention of looking after the kids.

    It's up to the spouse whether to pay the mortgage or not after that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    You think so? You don't think that this arguement which apparently tipped this marriage over the edge might indicate why this divorce could turn nasty/messy particularly if one of the parties feels hard done by.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,006 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    It literally doesn't matter to us what the argument was about. Whether someone cheated, or love fizzled or whatever. It literally doesn't matter to us in regard to the advice being given.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    It's difficult to take posters who misuse the word "literally " seriously never mind trying to explain the relevance of a question to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,006 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    In this context, literally was correctly used.

    I can’t comment to you again - don’t want to be lousy to the OP taking things off topic completely.

    Just please read your comment back in comparison to the rest and look at the tone of it. It doesn’t help.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,636 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Maintenance is usually for the upbringing of the children. Spousal maintenance is not common but not unheard of either, it all depends on circumstances (and the judge).

    In a judicial separation or divorce, other orders can be made e.g. property adjustment orders, pension adjustment orders or any other orders the judge sees fit.

    Those orders can vary in who has the right to stay in the family home, for how long, proportioning mortgage payments between both parties, equity and eventual division of that equity between both parties on sale of the family home either between both parties or to a third party.

    The judge can order anything within reason (and at times what may seem beyond reason).

    The outcome can vary from judge to judge and it is not unknown for one side to manipulate the system so that a case is heard by a judge who might be considered more favourable to their side



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 Tomlad79


    ??

    Post edited by Tomlad79 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,059 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    Sounds like you haven't really thought anything through here. I mean surely you knew when you moved out that you would still be paying a mortgage and also now have to pay rent. What advice exactly are you looking for here?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39 CatLick


    Be very careful if you move back in. She might try to create an incident and then say you are to blame. Swiftly followed by a Barring or Protection order. Definitely don't drink on the premises for a start as that's the first thing a Garda will look for. And have a plan to get out again quickly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    Why do you say " she might try to create an incident " ? From what I can gather from the posts so far is that he walked after an argument and then went on the Internet looking for advice of some sort. He now thinks that he can just move back in because he's feeling the pinch financially. So I don't believe "she" is the one most likely to "create an incident ".



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