Separation

Alonzo Mosley

Best of luck Tom, hope it all works out - stay strong.

Ezeoul

If you move back in its almost a guarantee that her next move will be an ex-parte application for a Safety / Protection Order, even a temporary barring order, on the grounds of emotional abuse and intimidation, and that you are putting her in fear. She doesn't need to "create an incident" to do this.

She has already recorded you in the past, which makes me think she was thinking of going down that road, when you left voluntarily.

I'm not telling you to move back in, or not move back in. Only you can decide that.

But I would advise you to think very carefully, and not to let the rented room you do have go immediately.

Alonzo Mosley

If she does get a protection/safety order contest it when you are in front of the judge. The judge will adjourn your case and it will be up to her to produce the evidence that she fears for her safety.

Put the ball back in her court. Don't roll over so easily - stay strong.

thatshowthelightgetsin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193518#Comment_121193518

100% this. She is earning €20k more than you so is evidently not exactly the sort of stay-at-home mammy Irish legislators were thinking of when they wrote the Family Home Protection Act in 1976. In this context, Just why should she get more of the family home and parenting rights than you? Think about that answer for your circumstances, and never mind the female entitlement. One thing's for certain: if you go in looking for only 40%, you won't get 50% and you very probably won't get 40%. That money will matter down the road - especially as she is currently earning substantially more than you. If the man were in her position, the woman would demand far more than 50%. You need to change tack and look for 70% of everything.

thatshowthelightgetsin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195637#Comment_121195637

Plenty of forced sales of houses by judges, even when there are young children. If the family home has substantial equity, as very many do in the current high property prices, it's all but a certainty a judge will order the sale of the family home or allow one person to buy out the other - both of which amount to the same thing in terms of removing one, or both, person from the mortgage liability.

It's comical that people still think all these mothers working outside the home should be entitled to keep control of the family home and kids but the father who has the same working-outside-the-home situation should lose these rights. There's no rationality to it, all it is is gender-based entitlement.

See O'L verse O'L for a case where precisely such court orders to sell the house happened even with a young child present.

"This requirement to consider the accommodation needs of each spouse will not necessarily result in a right of residence or complete transfer being awarded automatically to one spouse. The needs of both spouses must be considered, which can result in the sale of the family home and the division of the net proceeds. This was deemed by McGuinness J. to be both the appropriate and necessary measure in the case of O’L v O’L:

* “In all the circumstances I am satisfied that common sense and justice require that the family home be sold and that the proceeds of sale be divided so as to provide as far as possible for the purchase by the wife of a smaller house ... and to provide for the husband something towards a deposit on the purchase by him of suitable accommodation for himself.”

In this case, it should be noted that the learned judge believed the child would be relatively unharmed by the move'* (end)

From: 'Divorce in Ireland: The Csse for reform' (Law Society, 2019)

https://www.lawsociety.ie/globalassets/documents/submissions/divorce-in-ireland-april-2019.pdf

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121202836#Comment_121202836

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121204687#Comment_121204687

Unfortunately it is much to the disgrace of our family law courts how frequently such fraudulent claims succeed without any objective evidence.

Depriving someone if their fundamental right to their family life is a serious matter and should require serious evidence, unfortunately it often doesn't.

Tomlad79

bit of a update , Im going to move back into my home it’s what my kids want not sure how my ex wife will react, she has phoned me twice in the last 2 weeks to come to the house and talk about the children and at this stage I think it’s best I’m in the home for them my solicitors b thinks it will be over 2 years before the separation goes before a Judge it’s a long time so I’m going to move back in keep to myself and and see how it goes it’s 3 months since I moved out

rtron

Hi Tom, totally sympathize with your situation I'm going through something similar. I've decided to stay in the family home. I've seen far too many men move out only to be paying a mortgage and rent at the same time and no money for themselves at the end of the month.

I've accepted she will move on with her life as she sees fit, it's sort of tolerable at the moment and I hope it gets easier. But right now I'm here for the kids as best I can be.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121223972#Comment_121223972

If it will take over two years before your separation will go before a judge I'd suggest applying for divorce as soon as the law allows i.e. July 2024, two years after she claims you started living separately.

If you can get a good solicitor to file the application for divorce for you it may give you the opportunity to put your case better and put your wife on the back foot.

I'd have your divorce application ready to file two years to the day as your wife may be thinking along the same lines.

There is no point in going through the court process twice, once is traumatising enough.

thatshowthelightgetsin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121226584#Comment_121226584

He might be better simply applying for the Judicial Separation after one year, and making it clear that he will seek to convert it into a divorce when the (backward) two-year waiting period in Irish law for a divorce is up (as it will be before he gets a court date). It will not cost him anything extra to do it this way, and he will be able to be the Applicant in the proceedings after one year rather than after two years.

If he waits for two years before starting the process, it will just delay the case even more.

thatshowthelightgetsin

All men should be very wise to how ubiquitous false allegations are in family law proceedings. They are, in fact, an absolutely integral part of the family law system designed to hold up cases for years and destroy fathers.

Known as the 'silver bullet' in family law circles, their purpose is to remove the man from the family home and thus undermine his role as a parent and thus his rights to the family home. It is that simple. Invariably, such false allegations lead to a criminal case which in effect stops the civil/divorce case for years. When the criminal case finally gets to court after years, the divorce can be dealt with - all the time while the mother stays in the family home based on that false allegation. And when the divorce finally gets to a family law court judge, you can fully expect the supposedly "learned" judge to say something to the effect that "Well, the children are settled into the new reality and the father has shown he can pay rent outside the home so let's keep it like this for the next 18 years until your youngest child becomes 23 (assuming they go to third-level)". The evil of false allegations are entirely encouraged by the "I believe her" cult where false allegations by women should, we are told, be believed without challenge. The secrecy of all the family law courts only exacerbates enormously the kangaroo, misandrist nature of the family law courts in Ireland in 2023. Women are a protected species, and the government's refusal to open up the family law courts to expert and international observation perpetrates injustice, overwhelmingly against fathers.

Unless you can get a Section 47 report early in the process, these allegations will sit there, unsubstantiated of course, and will undermine your character in every court application you make until the end, when a judge might make an opinion on the lack of substance behind the allegations. In essence, women control the guy via these and because the court case will take years, no section of the Irish courts' system will challenge your ex about these false allegations at the start of the process so an innocent father will, in effect, be deemed guilty in Irish family law without the opportunity to clear his name for years. False allegations are both an incredibly effective mechanism to control the father, and they have an unparalleled silencing effect. After all, 'there's no smoke without fire' so don't tell anybody what has been alleged!

It is extremely rare that any mother who lays a false allegation against a father is punished - and she will, of course, maintain complete anonymity in the whole process even if at the end of the process she is found to have lied - as the following incredible recent story makes clear. It will, however, cost the father a great deal of mental anguish, an enormous amount of money in legal fees and more in accommodation fees (as the allegations will be the basis for removing the father from his home if the mother merely claims she's "in fear"). As incredible as the "In fear" claim sounds as the basis for destroying a father's life it happens every day of the week in Ireland's kangaroo family law courts.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41225728.html?fbclid=IwAR1npM8bY4MjPomF_eHaysnM3NuS4s3zS78mhzCgjw_QoUdFZbCP0RkVdIk

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121230428#Comment_121230428

As the wife has already applied to court for a judicial separation it is past the point of the OP applying for a judicial separation. The OP may be able to make back some ground in court if they can remain in the family home and apply for a divorce before the judicial separation comes up in court and before the OP's wife applies for divorce.

Tomlad79

I have been told by my solicitor I can love back into my home the locals have not being changed and it’s been 3 months I have spoken to both my teenagers and both are begging me to move back in, at this stage my ex wife dose not know my plans, my only concern is a Barron order, how easy is it for my ex wife to lie to get one which would result in me been removed from my home thank lads

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121233518#Comment_121233518

It's very easy for your wife to lie. Your solicitor might be able to advise how likely those lies are to succeed. It's as important, if not more important, to know the measure of the local judges as it is to know the law.

FishOnABike

I have been told that some judges have the attitude that 'the husband is going to be out of the house anyway so it may as well be now as later'.

People are more inclined to complain when they are hard done by. The fairer judges may go unnoticed but there certainly are some bad eggs out there

Your solicitor might be able to advise what way local judges lean.

It wouldn't be unheard of for your wife's solicitor to manipulate and play the system to have any application she makes end up before a judge who leans her way. There's plenty of dubious practices they can use to their advantage.