Deposit return scheme (recycling)

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121894916#Comment_121894916

"These schemes" is a very broad and vague reference. There are "exceptions" here to how it was implemented abroad. It is not the same system in practice with regard to manual returns, the exemption for take back etc

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895675#Comment_121895675

Not true. The EU directive had an opt out clause. Not every country in the EU have adopted it.

The Green Party have been trying to ram this through for years.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/naughten-accuses-environment-committee-of-greenwashing-waste-reduction-bill-1.3505402

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895675#Comment_121895675

I don't agree.

Wasn't the EU directive around a minimum collection rate rather than a specific scheme to do it?

If the EU perscribed this scheme specificilly how specific were they around the details of it?

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121827642#Comment_121827642

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121825975#Comment_121825975

The EU leave it up to the member state to create a bespoke system to suit their needs (like you mention our small market) and plan for any country specific issues.

The EU didnt put Re-Turn together.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895758#Comment_121895758

It was only opt out if you can get to a certain rate through other means wasn't it? But we were never going to try to invent something novel, we always copy other countries, with enough tweaks to make it useless, and the exact form of return was left to the industry.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121693774#Comment_121693774

While everyone will say - "but Germany", it is not a like for like situation. The German scheme was their first, and still only, way to recycle plastic bottles. Their mother tongue, to coign a phrase, is the pfand system. They went from not recycling plastic to this solution, and have stuck with it.

In Ireland, we are starting a very different place to Germany, we have 20 years kerbside collection for plastic, an entire industry has been created and allowed grow for both recycling and waste management, and we have been reasonably successful in that.

When we agreed to better collection rates from the EU (something that is good), we did not agree to, nor were we directed to use any specific method to achieve it. But instead of trying to find a way to build on the kerbside collection and recycling - something we ultimately have to do anyway [for all other waste streams] - we instead "copied Germany".

We are adopting a course of action that was correct 20 years ago, but is not a solution that will address coming challenges we face today.

Great post from Genghis. Pretty much sums it up.

Vote4Squirrels

Can I ask what might be a stupid question please ?

If you buy own brand products, do you need to take them back to the same place ?

I've a bundle of Lidl beer for the weekend but some others bought in Tesco - be good to get them all returned to the same place.

Thanks all!

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896111#Comment_121896111

You shouldn't have to bring it back to same place, assuming the products have been registered correctly.

If you check the barcode on the can here, does it register?

https://re-turn.shanehastings.ie/

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896117#Comment_121896117

Oh I'll have a check - thank you!!!!

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895882#Comment_121895882

We don't know our rate. Or we do and it has been ignored. This was happening whatever the stats were.

According to the article I linked in 2018. We had a collection rate of 70%.

Which given we have been told 30% of plastics bottles are used on the go, that would mean at home recycling was as near 100% as we could get.

As the environmental minister noted at the time, we have completely dismantled a collection scheme that was working to try fix a separate problem of littering. A problem caused in large part by LA's and CC's absolving themselves of anything resembling trash management or collection. The deposit will just become another accepted tax, people will continue to litter or just throw them into a general waste bin if they are fortunate to find one when they are on the go. The idea put forward by the green cheerleaders that people will walk literally miles to find a working machine to get back 15 cent was always hilarious.

It's pure theatre.

But but but Germany, no the Germans are not simpletons, they would built on what worked not got rid of it.

sundodger5

To avoid other government shenanigans i am lucky enough to be close to the border regularly. So to avoid MUP on alcohol i stock up on beer.

Guess what, the cans i bought recently have the return logo and are accepted here.

It's like a discount per can 😄

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895675#Comment_121895675

Its not an EU directive. Thats a myth. Many EU and non-EU countries have adopted DRS systems, some are still discussing it, but there is no directive from EU saying you must implement it.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896208#Comment_121896208

That's a serious win win for traders across the border. If they can acquire stocks of products with return logo and sell it to southerners, it's win, win, win big time. They get loads extra business and we get extra cash back. Whooppeeeee.

A rep of motor fuels in Ireland was predicting similar the other day for petrol & diesel sales. That between scheduled excise duty increases and carbon taxes down south here that there'll be a seriously attractive price differential soon north of the border. God bless the border!

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896281#Comment_121896281

Yip. Local media in Donegal reporting on it steady now. Predicting 15c per litre cheaper in the North from April 1st.

So into to Derry it is. Stock up in Home Bargains on canned / plastic bottled goods and anything else significantly cheaper which is a lot. Fill your tank with fuel and get 120kg coal put into your boot in the drive-thru on the way out.

I see Home Bargains have a big store in Newry. I recommend a visit.

Maybe someone will produce a list of NI products accepted by Re-Turn RVMs soon or perhaps it's just a case of using the existing barcode checker for containers sold in NI without the logo...

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896497#Comment_121896497

And some people want to get rid of the border!!!

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895758#Comment_121895758

And the laughable thing is that we already had a fantastic Green solution in the simple wheelie bins. Low tech, reusable multiple times, few moving parts and no energy required other than from the householder to wheel them out.

And what did the current Greens go and do. Fecking idiots the lot of them now.

RayCon

I'm really fckin sick of this now. Walked to the local Lidl with 8 x 330ml cans of Galway Bay Althea, 1 x empty Coke Can & 4 x 330ml Blue Moon cans I had accumulated (instead of just putting them in my recycling bin because I had paid the €0.15 deposit on them). 

Both machines in Lidl were out of service .... so walked to the Tesco further up the road. Machines working but didn't recognize the 8 x Galway Bay cans. ... so those 8 cans went into the public bin outside Tesco and I got €0.75 for my troubles. Ask my hole.

And no, I wasn't bothered to queue up at Tesco Customer service and argue the point with a disinterested teenager who just wants their shift to end.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896780#Comment_121896780

Ive given up on the process, all cans are going into my green bin.

I am however saving up my toilet roll inserts.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896780#Comment_121896780

Galway Bay cans have black on grey barcodes, totally out of spec and an absolute balls to get to read. Producer fuckup.

Ashbourne hoop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121888481#Comment_121888481

Wife said that too, and you're right, but I can't be arsed to be honest. Think retailers are counting on that attitude....

bog master

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121895891#Comment_121895891

a GREAT post from your goodself also!

Floppybits

Why did they have to make it so awkward? Surely they could have made it simpler by being able to use the voucher in any store and not just the one you brought it back too. I have no problem bringing the bottles to a machine and getting the a voucher, I do have a problem where I can only use that voucher in the shop where that machine was located or having to go into the shop to ask for change for the voucher so that I can go to another shop to spend it. Ridiculous, maybe it would have been better for the government to spend the money on the machines and put them in various places like where people bring the glass bottles, then they could get rid of the plastic ones and glass ones at the same time, get a voucher that then can be used in any of the shops. It's not rocket science, leaving it up to private companies like the shops or manufacturers is nuts.

bog master

MY FIRST Recycling at RVM.

Cans bought at SV yesterday with deposit charged. In town today for for bringing neighbor in for Dr. visit.

Aldi was closer, brought 12 cans in, 11 accepted tho all from same multi pack. No problems, easy enough. Area clean, tho no bin for cans/bottles not accepted. And, still yet to see anyone else using the RVM.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896845#Comment_121896845

Ching, ching for Return

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896163#Comment_121896163

Whether it's a directive or target or whatever I'm convinced we'd end up with the exact same scheme sooner or later no matter who was in government, the UK are doing it and they certainly don't have an EU mandate. We just don't have the capability to implement our own more appropriate plan that takes account of preexisting kerbside collection. The problem is FF and FG leadership are very quiet on this and will use its unpopularity to undermine the Greens come election time.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897028#Comment_121897028

The reason certain governance are so keen on it because they don't actually have to anything.

Again, centre-right policy, farm it out privately. Looking to do something without actually doing something. Green Theatre.

The review on this is every 3 and a half years.

The only tool they have at their disposal is to keep increasing the deposit amount.

Re-Turn can't lose, if they don't hit their targets it's not because of a bat shít inconvenient mess of a scheme, it's because Irish people are terrible.

Therefore the beatings will continue.

BoardsBottler

i had a weird experience today, listen to this. i had brought a small black bag with just a couple of things in it to an rvm recycling machine. Not the usual massive amounts i bring just a small black bag with like around 5 euros worth of stuff. Anyway i timed out on the first machine (which has'nt happened me in a while now as i've become quicker at returns cans/bottles), so second try it all works out and i get rid of everything. i have a €1.50 receipt voucher and a €3.50 at this point. As i'm in the que i can't seem to find the 3.50 voucher so i just hand in the 1.50 for cash. afterwards i find the 3.50 voucher in a separate pocket entirely (i was wearing a glove and could'nt feel the receipt in that pocket when i initially checked as the paper itself is so paper thin (no pun intended) and difficult to feel while wearing a glove.

Anyway i went back in 2 minutes later and que'd up again but at a different till. When it was my turn in the que to swap in the 3.50 voucher, the cashier radio'd the previous cashier on the headset thingy accusing me of using the same receipt i had given to the other cashier despite the total amounts being entirely different, and asking her to check her till to see if the receipt was still in there before handing me over any cash.

i don't mean to be a karen, and should'nt really take it personally, but is it something that should be reported or should be let slide? let me know what you think.

this is another example of inconvenience by the scheme or something, well i can't really blame the scheme itself but rather the workers. Also after they scan a barcode its meant to be invalid, so even if what she was saying w as true, it still would'nt work and come up on the register. needless to say i got my €3.50 eventually and left.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897099#Comment_121897099

This makes me think there's no validation of the receipts in that store, no connection between the machines and the tills, receipts aren't necessarily unique. When you posted your €200 receipt a while back the 200 and number of containers were clearly coded in the last few barcode digits, if the rest of the numbers are common it sounds like it would be very easy for a scammer to print their own receipt for any amount which is why they're cautious I bet.

Neowise

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897099#Comment_121897099

Maybe they have no security on the vouchers and if you counterfeit the receipts you can just print receipts and shop will hand you over the money. If this is the case, it's an easy way to rob shops, much easier than sticking barcodes on toilet roll empties.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897134#Comment_121897134

Considering the lack of planning and thinking that has gone into the rest of this system, I highly doubt the encoding of the barcode has been extensively engineered. I am sure we have not yet scratched the surface for ways of getting around the system. The printing your own barcodes has already been demonstrated to work.