We don't know our rate. Or we do and it has been ignored. This was happening whatever the stats were.
According to the article I linked in 2018. We had a collection rate of 70%.
Which given we have been told 30% of plastics bottles are used on the go, that would mean at home recycling was as near 100% as we could get.
As the environmental minister noted at the time, we have completely dismantled a collection scheme that was working to try fix a separate problem of littering. A problem caused in large part by LA's and CC's absolving themselves of anything resembling trash management or collection. The deposit will just become another accepted tax, people will continue to litter or just throw them into a general waste bin if they are fortunate to find one when they are on the go. The idea put forward by the green cheerleaders that people will walk literally miles to find a working machine to get back 15 cent was always hilarious.
It's pure theatre.
But but but Germany, no the Germans are not simpletons, they would built on what worked not got rid of it.
Oh I'll have a check - thank you!!!!
You shouldn't have to bring it back to same place, assuming the products have been registered correctly.
If you check the barcode on the can here, does it register?
https://re-turn.shanehastings.ie/
Can I ask what might be a stupid question please ?
If you buy own brand products, do you need to take them back to the same place ?
I've a bundle of Lidl beer for the weekend but some others bought in Tesco - be good to get them all returned to the same place.
Thanks all!
While everyone will say - "but Germany", it is not a like for like situation. The German scheme was their first, and still only, way to recycle plastic bottles. Their mother tongue, to coign a phrase, is the pfand system. They went from not recycling plastic to this solution, and have stuck with it.
In Ireland, we are starting a very different place to Germany, we have 20 years kerbside collection for plastic, an entire industry has been created and allowed grow for both recycling and waste management, and we have been reasonably successful in that.
When we agreed to better collection rates from the EU (something that is good), we did not agree to, nor were we directed to use any specific method to achieve it. But instead of trying to find a way to build on the kerbside collection and recycling - something we ultimately have to do anyway [for all other waste streams] - we instead "copied Germany".
We are adopting a course of action that was correct 20 years ago, but is not a solution that will address coming challenges we face today.
Great post from Genghis. Pretty much sums it up.
It was only opt out if you can get to a certain rate through other means wasn't it? But we were never going to try to invent something novel, we always copy other countries, with enough tweaks to make it useless, and the exact form of return was left to the industry.
The EU leave it up to the member state to create a bespoke system to suit their needs (like you mention our small market) and plan for any country specific issues.
The EU didnt put Re-Turn together.
I don't agree.
Wasn't the EU directive around a minimum collection rate rather than a specific scheme to do it?
If the EU perscribed this scheme specificilly how specific were they around the details of it?
Not true. The EU directive had an opt out clause. Not every country in the EU have adopted it.
The Green Party have been trying to ram this through for years.
"These schemes" is a very broad and vague reference. There are "exceptions" here to how it was implemented abroad. It is not the same system in practice with regard to manual returns, the exemption for take back etc
Unfortunately this is one of the things that would have been implemented sooner or later by whoever was in government because it's an EU directive, but it's being used as another stick to beat the green party with.
People will just give up making the effort to use them..
all very well that chancer Ryan telling citizens what they should be doing for the environment but when we look at him, what he should be doing, he has overseen a situation whereby very unreliable machinery has been green lighted by him and his mob, and they don’t work so well…..
A right shïtshow, but is anyone surprised considering this is……Eamonn Ryan… ?
another thing, how many people make extra trips in the car to the local machine because they don’t want the extra hassle on shopping day etc… you’ve all your empty bags to take with you into the shops so you won’t want or be able to be taking bags of recyclables too.
So ultimately extra car journeys in many cases….
Also older or people and or people with medical conditions / disabilities who don’t drive….. they are getting charged unnecessarily…..it’s all a bit of a fûcking fiasco. Arrogance in action….they are not going to want or in many cases be able to safely or without great difficulty and or risk to participate in the scheme … nice to expect some person with a nerve disorder to walk to their supermarket on a frame with bags of bottles and cans hanging off the thing, nice one Eamonn. Maybe they should taxi it Eamonn… ?
There should be dedicated manual return places, where that's their only job, to take returns, should be at recycling centers.
There's a lot of things that work all over Europe, that won't here.
Driving on the right for example.
Half joking.
Joking aside, would you always make the assumption, without question or review, that if something works somewere else, it will work here?
I like how people assume that even though these schemes work all over Europe, it'll fail here. Irish exceptionalism at its best.
Oh, I know, the whole thing is a mess. People who don't recycle will continue to not recycle because they don't care. Pages and pages ago I said it was the new electronic voting machines. But sure, re-turn will make a lot of cash.
Went to tesco earlier dropped in a few items. 1 can had a dinge on the barcode but still went through. So far went to use the return bins 3 times and no rejects so far. Then again only have taken back 1.35 worth to date small drink bottles and 2 cans.Can't complain so far.
Indeed. But its not the stated goal of the scheme - that would just be a beneficial side effect - but it something that could have been achieved without this environmentally unfriendly scheme with no changes to existing infrastructure.........
Yep, that seems likely to be a result. And also likely why we may see both the drinks manufacturers, distributors and retailers... quietly going about torpedoing the scheme in due course. Even early days we have heard some retailers trying to back out and stating that really the LAs should be siting and maintaining these machines/ system.
There's nothing wrong at all with the new scheme as a litter management system but it was criminal not to integrate the existing system and piss off the majority.
I suppose it depends on the meaning of what the scheme is meant to achieve. I would imagine most people who were diligently recycling via their bin for years are now thinking about how best to reduce their purchases of in-scope bottles / cans. I guess if that's the goal then it's probably a winning scheme.
Surely that all depends on your definition of failure and what is being measured and indeed who looks bad if and when things fail.
I believe in one country PET use has increased significantly since the scheme started there. I am not clued in enough to know the downsides elsewhere to be honest.
We aren't moving from a Zero recycling economy to one that needs something like this. We have some very well defined and followed methods of recycling down the years and really just needed to be tweaked. I am firm on that but because of successive government ineptitude AND the hands off approach of LA's we somehow "need" this over complex and environmentally unfriendly scheme......
What you've done with this is pi$$ed off those that have followed the rules for years. You'd have to ask, do you think that those that didn't follow the rules in the past, will suddenly decide to do so now, because that is what it will boil down to.
I suppose we are talking about return here, not other labelling that is coming down the tracks.
Equivalent systems have not failed anywhere else and it isn't going to fail here.
I wasn't including you in the people wishing for its downfall - those are getting every more desperate and posting ever more delusional statements about how it'll fail now that it's in place and working. But it won't.
And if you think that overstickering a Re-Turn logo is going to stop certain thing being imported, wait til you see the cancer warnings that the government are going to require on all beer/wine/spirits, including that in glass bottles. That absolutely will cause companies to refuse to allow their products to be sold here even if a distributor was willing to oversticker.
Greedy and incompetent producers (Surely this in itself is the biggest worry?)- Check.
Bin prices going up as a result of this scheme - Check. (Myself and others have been impacted by this already, don't worry, its coming)
People bringing back stuff they were charged a deposit on but can't claim back the deposit - Check.
Machines out of order - Check.
Net environmental damage as a result of the scheme - check.
Consumer annoyance at best, anger at worst - check.
Multiple issues with the scheme since inception - check (People who shop on line, the elderly, those who cannot travel easily, northern ireland issues, potential for producers not providing certain products into Ireland - none of these issues by the way have any plan in place for resolution)
If they are not systematic issues with the scheme, I don't know what are/is?
I am not "wishing" for the scheme to fail, as it's been doomed to fail from the start (You only need to look at this and other threads) but we'll be told that all is good in the world and sure lookit, tis only a few greedy and incompetent producers the issues is with.
That is fine if you are in an area with competition. I have the option of ONE waste collecting company. Collection every fortnight, don't put out a bin or bins, matters not. You pay for bin collection over a time period regardless whether you do not put out bins on a given collection day. And, as I have posted before my monopoly waste collection has increased prices since December.
Add "greedy" to "incompetent" producers.
My bins haven't gone up - and most of the price increases given are on per-lift which people will now often do less anyway so it will even out for them; and basically all the other issues here fall in to the already mentioned categories; or are user error - people bringing back stuff that was never in scope and never had a deposit paid for it (bringing it back when it was never in scope but you were charged for it is a retailer error.
There's a few people on this thread that are actively wishing for this to fail and will amplify anything and everything in to it being huge, systemic issues. Their weird reality is not actual reality.
Only €3 in your case and multiply that by mmm few hundred instances per day-somebody's on to a winner-It ain't the Consumer.
I've a similar issue with Guinness Nitrosurge and Lidl, I went into Lidl earlier to get a couple of things and to return 12 empties that I was charged a deposit on and the machine says they are not recognised. I then end up having to walk around Lidl with 12 empty cans in a bag and when I ask the girl at the till, she doesn't know what to do.
Also, the info@re-turn.ie address on the website doesn't appear to work.
What a pain all this is and where is all the money going to? It's only €3 in my case so not the end of the world but I'm sure it's happening everywhere.
You reckon the prices of certain drinks will reduce back to pre return days or bin charges will drop?
What about the issue of the base price of these items going up by 10 percent in some cases, the issue of recycle bin costs going up and the myriad of other issues mentioned less than ten posts back from your own?
You just reminded me of Sainsbury's doing a 25% off 6 bottles of wine offer. Every 3 months they also used to send out a code for £18 off a total order of £60 or more. Both offers stackable. Carpark collection too. Very handy. 18 bottles of Chardonnay and pino for under £3 per bottle. Roughy 100 euro saving compared to Donegal. I know glass isn't in scope but the price rises in general on top of this scheme (unrelated of course 🙄) are really making me want to head into NI for everything I can now.
