Deposit return scheme (recycling)

odyssey06 · 26-10-2023 7:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287519#Comment_121287519

Are you sure about that?

This talks of exemptions.

Retailers operating from shops and off-licences with a retail area of less than 250 sq. ms will be able to apply for a take-back exemption. This is to facilitate smaller retailers with limited retail and storage space.

https://www.drinksindustryireland.ie/re-turn-confirms-take-back-exemptions-for-plastic-bottles-and-containers/

Cienciano · 26-10-2023 7:39pm

Makes sense that there's some exemptions. Not sure how big 250sqm is, they mention stalls and vans. But the official site says "You can return your empty, undamaged drinks container, featuring the Re-turn logo, to any retailers that sells drinks in plastic and steel/aluminium cans." so smaller retailers are exempted. Wonder if the drink bottles are exempt from the extra tax if you buy them there? Think we know the answer

tampopo · 27-11-2023 12:13am

I've also been saving cans for years. I've brought them all back, pretty much. I can only carry so many at a given time.

There's a Lidl that takes them for 10c. so, it's there I go. Pick them up off the street too, like a homeless person too. Easy money. The actual homeless will have them snapped up when the thing is introduced proper in the new year.

27-11-2023 12:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121422395#Comment_121422395

But if you pay a deposit then the scheme is sort of stupid. It’s not incentivising you for any reward they’re just charging you extra and giving it back if you return it.

If a can was €1 and you got 10c back for returning it you could argue you’ve paid 90c or made 10c.

This way the can is going to cost €1.10, so if you return you get the 10c back and therefore pay the normal price.

It’s stupid.

odyssey06 · 27-11-2023 12:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423396#Comment_121423396

There were some LIDLs trialling the scheme so it seems like you could bring bottles there and get 10c back without paying the 10c deposit. That's the only way I can see if you could have gained from it really.

There was €200,000 refunded in total.

https://businessplus.ie/news/lidl-recycled-bottles/

Varik · 27-11-2023 3:43pm

A few small bottles won't be bad but anything more than that is going to make this a pain.

What are the chances shops won't have some handy method (or the machine or it won't work) and you'll just have to line up to hand over them all at the till where it just get's left beside the checkout person until they can drop it round the back.

Seeing the machines vouchers will only work at the shop they're attached to, and probably they'll expire in no time at all.

How much fraud is this barcode uncrushed nonsense going to save them from.

Even the amount the house drinks won't cover the gate fee for the recycling centre, and other choice is either walking into shopping centre with bin bags or treat it like the great escape dropping of stuff constantly.

Potential-Monke · 27-11-2023 9:33pm

So now we're gonna be charged for not recyling bottles and cans at specific shops even if we already use the recycling bin at home... great country full of great ideas as usual... it'll help me get healthier at least as I will just not buy those drinks anymore.

creedp · 28-11-2023 8:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121425908#Comment_121425908

Im with you there. I currently recycle everything in green bin or bring to recycling centre so now I have to pay more to buy certain products fornthe privilege of storimg seperately and bringing to another location if I want a refund. Not easy being emv friendly

Ger Roe · 28-11-2023 1:48pm

This is more disconnected thinking from our 'experts', influenced more by potential commercial gain, than environmental management. The new buzz term is 'the circular economy'. Economise the issue rather than directly take measures to address it.

We already have issues with not having a national standard policy on waste recycling. Different bin colours and different items accepted in different ways, all over the country with major operational differences between private and council facilities.

It's an inefficient mess with mixed messages going out to the public. This is what we got when our overlords decided to turn a necessary public service, in to a commercial industry. No wonder the latest EPA report (out today) says we are failing miserably with our re-cycling targets. I don't think the new deposit return scheme will make a whole load of difference either.

We need to start from the top down - reduce the waste coming in to the country, instead of putting all the burden on the consumer to take it in gather it all up, and bring it to various places, all in support of an industry that we didn't want in the first place.

At the moment, I save all my plastic bottles up and squash them, until I literally have a car full to take to the council depot. From the new year, I will have to keep them intact, so that I can transport far less less (more frequent car journeys), to queue at a machine and individually push them through a hole, so I can recover the latest tax imposed. More trucks will then visit each machine to bring the bottles to a place that I could have gone to, in the first place.

What a joke - stop developing an industry and tackle the issue at source.

SteM · 28-11-2023 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121422395#Comment_121422395

Most of the cans you see discarded on the streets are crushed. The new system won't accept damaged or crushed cans so there'd be little benefit for people picking them up off the street and bringing them back.

28-11-2023 2:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428299#Comment_121428299

You won't see many cans thrown around though. They are no longer worthless

SteM · 28-11-2023 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428318#Comment_121428318

We'll have to wait and see. There are kids that will throw whatever they have in their hands on the ground, even if there is a bin near. Kids like that won't care about carrying an empty can around to get 10c back. It'll go on the ground just like before.

28-11-2023 2:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428339#Comment_121428339

Not really, we've prior experience with this with the plastic bag levy. No idea what age you are, but I remember the amount of them thrown all over the place before the levy which changed virtually overnight. You'll still find the odd one, but not many

The same will be true in the DRS. Even more so for kids as its free pocket money. The same thing has played out in every location where DRS has been rolled out, Ireland will be no different

Padraig Mor · 28-11-2023 2:31pm

Am I correct in the following when the scheme starts:

No more collection of cans and plastic bottles from your household recycling. I'd imagine the chances of bills being reduced to compensate for this are zero.
Huge increase in cost of own brand drinks etc - 12 x 500ml water in Aldi is now €3.15, this will rise to almost €5 with the scheme.
Can't squash the containers so have to keep big bags of bottles/cans lying around the house.
Big bags of containers will be impracticable for many to bring to shop via public transport / walking / cycling thereby incentivising car travel.
You only get a voucher back for the shop you've brought the containers to.

What an unworkable counterproductive fiasco! Even the Greens in Scotland - who make our own shower look sane - have been shamed into dropping the Scottish version of the scheme despite it being one of their headline deliverables.

SteM · 28-11-2023 2:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428377#Comment_121428377

I know all about the plastic bag levy, I was around for its introduction. Adults changed their habits overnight, I'm not talking about adults here. I know that 10c (edit sorry, it's 15c) means nothing to kids these days. Anyway we'll see, but this scheme won't stop kids from dumping cans on the street imo.

Calahonda52 · 28-11-2023 2:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192143#Comment_121192143

Been traveling over and back to Germany a bit recently due to a partner having a work contract there

Where are the others? 😂

28-11-2023 2:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428389#Comment_121428389

Huge increase in cost of own brand drinks etc - 12 x 500ml water in Aldi is now €3.15, this will rise to almost €5 with the scheme.

Correct, which will be redeemed once you return the containers

Can't squash the containers so have to keep big bags of bottles/cans lying around the house.

Well you can, you just won't be able to scan the barcodes. Its a personal choice as to what you do.

Big bags of containers will be impracticable for many to bring to shop via public transport / walking / cycling thereby incentivising car travel.

I'm scratching my head at this one. Are you saying that full containers, plus all other shopping, are practical to bring by any mode except the car, but only the empty containers require a car??

You only get a voucher back for the shop you've brought the containers to.

No, you get a voucher back for containers with the correct barcode (which should be virtually all of them). The voucher can be exchanged for cash. You do not need to return a container back to the same store as the system is based on the barcodes. So long as the container has the Re-Turn logo, its barcode will allow for a refund regardless of the location you return to

NSAman · 28-11-2023 2:47pm

What is so difficult that Ireland screws up everything that should be easy?

here in the states I bring back cans to the retailer, they count them and give you back 5cents per can/plastic bottle etc.

its not fecking rocket science.

you bring them while shopping, all cans are accepted. The only requirement is that they are cleaned.

tampopo · 28-11-2023 2:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428299#Comment_121428299

I didn't think I'd have to make it clear, but here goes. I pick up non-crushed cans on the street. For recycling. And bottles.

SteM · 28-11-2023 2:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428389#Comment_121428389

Consumers may return containers to a retailer that takes them back over the counter (manual), or through the use of a a Reverse Vending Machine (RVM). If returning to an RVM, you must insert all Re-turn drinks containers as instructed and you will then be issued with a voucher which may be redeemed at the till. *It is important to note that vouchers issued from an RVM must be redeemed at the same retail outlet.

PET plastic drinks containers, steel and aluminum cans between 150ml and 3 litres that show the Re-turn logo are accepted. They will need to be empty, undamaged and the barcode needs to be clearly legible. Remember, all drink containers included in the scheme will feature the Re-turn logo.

Not all drinks containers are eligible for Deposit Return. No dairy products are included in the Scheme. Eg. Milk, yogurt drinks. These containers will not have a Re-turn logo, but should still be recycled.

You will have the choice to receive your refund against a store-bought purchase or in cash.

So they still want you to use your green bin to recycle dairy product bottles. You can't squash them which seems ridiculous before you bring them back. If you bring them back to somewhere like Aldi you have to put them into the machine one by one and then take your voucher to the till get your money. Surely there's a smarter way of issuing a refund than this? It's such a poorly thought out scheme.

Padraig Mor · 28-11-2023 2:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428453#Comment_121428453

Acknowledged re voucher being refundable for cash but please stop misinterpreting the rest - so basically I'm correct in saying that we lose much of our household recycling service (and are unlikely to have a reduction in charges for this), the price paid for products will rise - hugely in some cases, many families will end up keeping huge bags of containers lying around, and for many, the only practical solution to giant bags of cans is to bring them by car to return them?

Rigor Mortis · 28-11-2023 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428389#Comment_121428389

They will still collect but you wont get your deposit back. You'd be giving money away
The increase will be in the form of a deposit, so you get that back if you return.
Yes. although how big it is kinda depends on how much you drink and how long you wait.
really. If your walking to the shop you are probably bringing a plastic bag which you could use to carry cans bottles on the way. Unless you are talking huge volumes consumed in a week or two, this isnt going to be prohibitively heavy, i wouldnt think.
No. You have to be offered cash from the owner of the machine. You get a receipt from the RVM but the retailer must honour that in cash.

28-11-2023 3:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428516#Comment_121428516

so basically I'm correct in saying that we lose much of our household recycling service

Nope, that service stays the same. If you wish to use it for all recyclable containers you can do so, if you wish to avail of the DRS you can do so

the price paid for products will rise - hugely in some cases

Its a deposit, nothing more

many families will end up keeping huge bags of containers lying around, and for many, the only practical solution to giant bags of cans is to bring them by car to return them?

Evidence and experience from the continent shows otherwise. Containers emptied between one trip to the shops to the next, are redeemed during the next trip. Nobody hoards containers, why you think they would is strange.

the only practical solution to giant bags of cans is to bring them by car to return them?

Again, evidence and experience shows otherwise. Nobody needs to change their mode of transport for a shopping trip because of this, why you think they would is strange.

creedp · 28-11-2023 3:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428389#Comment_121428389

Dont understand why #5 is necessary. If someone buys a bottle of water in a Tesco store do they have to carry the empty around with them until they return home or walk around in circles until empty and drop it back to same store?

Everything done by app now. Cant an app be peovided which is scanned before entering bottles etc into rvm with credits added for each bottled inserted

28-11-2023 4:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428963#Comment_121428963

You can return to any store or machine participating in the scheme. there is no requirement to return to the same location you purchased in

creedp · 28-11-2023 6:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429165#Comment_121429165

At least that makes it more convenient for people who buy a drink and is not immediately heading home. 3 options now - carry around your empty bottle all day undamaged and bring it home to claim your refund later or until you pass a participating store and get your deposit back there and then: generously fire it on the ground or in a rubbish bin undamaged so some enterprising person can pick it up and claim the deposit for themselves: or selfishly crush the bottle ensuring if you wont nobody else will claim the refund and toss it on ground or in bin. Choices, choices😂

28-11-2023 6:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428410#Comment_121428410

But you don’t know that you are just assuming that. Kids usually copy their folks anyway.

I know myself and my brother were talked to about plastic bags and not wasting them anymore after the levy (time was they’d be used and then either binned or used as a bin bag)