Deposit return scheme (recycling)

dxhound2005

I looked at a few videos of machines from different countries. NSW had machines 5 years ago, but Victoria started only a few months back. Naturally to "mixed reviews" according to the media. They become just another everyday fixture after the initial furore.

Spain needs to get something working because they litter the country with 30 million containers a day according to what I read. This machine from Sweden takes the work out of feeding in the containers. 109 Kr is about €9.27.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q7V1twGCY8

thesandeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083316#Comment_122083316

In fairness that looks a bit dangerous. A kid could climb in.

con747

I'd reckon unless they have a re-turn bar code and logo they should get rejected. Honestly though I'm sure there are safety features for a case like that. I would hope!

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083415#Comment_122083415

From the other video posted they're not easily opened

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083415#Comment_122083415

Never thought of that.

Kids can be unpredictable.

https://m.independent.ie/life/family/family-features/watch-moment-tipperary-boy-gets-stuck-in-a-toy-machine-after-climbing-in-to-get-a-teddy/35550916.html

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083415#Comment_122083415

That's an unusually fair comment for this thread.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122076438#Comment_122076438

What's the fine for throwing a can/bottle into a ditch? How much was recouped in 2023? 2022 etc??

Grassy Knoll

went to Lidl last night with about 20 bottles - bliss - it worked like a dream , previous experience has been mixed … this needs to work consistently for folks to have confidence in the system

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122081042#Comment_122081042

Surely in the bigger stores, the staff savings they’ve made with self service tills would easily cover a manual returns person.

Cluedo Monopoly

I used it for the first time tonight at SuperValu. Very impressed to be honest. They even offered to give me cash for the voucher. One of the machines was full.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082534#Comment_122082534

There's some truth in that - no doubt. However - there's significant rumbling about this scheme in the "real world" also - we've seen it on media outlets, heard it on radio slots and on TV. I've made my own feelings known on this whole debacle plenty of times already on this thread but we should all want and demand greater Reduce,Reuse, Recyle of all items that are ultimately harmful to our environment.

This scheme doesn't really address any one of these R's in any great way in any better way than that went before it. You still have the issues of people not engaging, I have collected items for return and used the machines a few times in the past few months with increasingly better "return" rates but I don't believe the scheme is in any way going to do anything for recycling rates.

I've said it on here before but I share a workplace with people in their late teens/early twenties. The building itself is big, there are small bins (general) all over the place. These people would buy bottles etc and just fire them in the general bins afterwards.

Theres no onus on the premises to provide segregated bins, there's no seperate or method to return items in the building as it is exempt, and the majority of people I engage with just aren't taking items elsewhere to get their return. These items will end up in general rubbish.

Coupled with the people who shop online, for one reason or another, and people who are on the road/moving around a lot you simply aren't going to get enough engagement with this scheme for it to reach it's goals - you've also pi$$ed off a lot of people who will just continue to use their recycle bins or worse.

The above examples aren't edge cases.

Thankfully this collections scheme will show us collection rates once they start polishing off the PR and Spin from the monthly reports that should expose the lack of engagement of the general population with the scheme which might at the very least look at some other things that are required. I doubt it though.

The State and Local Authorities have almost completely wiped their hands of the issues or rubbish, recycling, collection etc and its not today or yesterday that happened.

dxhound2005

It will probably be something which achieves its objective over the next few decades. Like the developed world got smoking rates down gradually since the 1950's. It is far too soon to pronounce on it after just a few months. There won't be a word about it this time next year. And if stats come out to show a bit of an uptick in recycling, they will be generally ignored.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083577#Comment_122083577

They certainly save money on the self service checkouts.

But staffing levels have been adjusted accordingly so that money is already banked.

If every shop that has an RVM was ordered to house and staff a manual system as well I reckon there would be push back from the retailers.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083633#Comment_122083633

It won't wont get to 90 percent collection rate without significant tweaking - that much is obvious to me at least.

It won't get to 90 percent recycling rate without much more significant tweaking of the entire supply chain.

As we have seen in many countries with this scheme in place for over a decade the useage of PET's hasn't decreased as a result of these schemes, the opposite infact as the incentive hasn't been there - same will happen here - and again - thats not really in any ones interests from an environmental PoV.

This is not comparable to smoking rate reduction for any one of ten different reasons - see previous point.

dxhound2005

It is simple enough. Pay a deposit, get it back from a machine. I can't see a way to tweak that. We are not some strange race in Ireland that has to be different than the rest.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083652#Comment_122083652

Thats where you are wrong. We are.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083669#Comment_122083669

Just me and you.

vafankillar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082516#Comment_122082516

there was also an alcohol ban in america in the 1930s, not every do-gooder policey was sucessful or an obvious right move in hindsight. many have righty been overturned when common sense prevailed

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083703#Comment_122083703

Machines have been working around the world since the 1970's. No going back.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083652#Comment_122083652

The point I (and others) are making, is that there was a "simpler" scheme in place prior to this. Recycle bin at house, put all recycleables in that bin. Much better overall system for the environment, much "better" and easier for the consumer and a hell of a lot less faffing around/variables at play, not perfect but a damn sight "better" than this new one. The bin companies even used it as a revenue stream.

The people who used this system did so well. Only major problem with this system that I can see, versus the new one, was that it was not "easy" to count returns versus what was sold. The people who "used" this scheme are generally gonna use the DRS unless it doesn't suit them and they will go back to using their recycle bin or some even the regular bin (I don't get why you would do that but anyway)

You had people who didn't engage for whatever reason or used the wrong bins etc. Those people, as far as I can see, aren't engaging with this new scheme and wont.

You also had the people who were "on the go" or in office buildings who may have taken their recycleables home with them and put in the recycle bin at home but you'll find that a lot of these people will just fling the items into the nearest bin whereever that is.

You are looking on this at way to close in a level. If you want to make our "collection" rates of PET and Alumium cans, you need to looks more closely at the barriers to doing that - we very obviously know that the people I talk about above and the environmental situations they find themselves in are the main barriers - how to you accomodate them - how do you ensure producers aren't let off the hook - what alternatives are there to PET etc etc?

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083727#Comment_122083727

The "machines" haven't worked.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/723191/production-of-polyethylene-terephthalate-bottles-worldwide/#:~:text=This%20statistic%20depicts%20the%20production,plastic%20bottles%20will%20be%20produced.

lauracork2024

Once I deposit mine (and other peoples who can't be bothered or no transport) I bring the receipt to the supermarket and the put it on a gift card. It's adding up very quickly, it's like a little savings club 😜

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083767#Comment_122083767

So how are you putting it on a gift card? I was under the impression you can only get a cash refund or a deduction off your shopping with the receipt.

Purple Mountain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083767#Comment_122083767

But it's not really savings because you're only getting the money back that you already paid. It's not extra money.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083633#Comment_122083633

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083652#Comment_122083652

The machines aren't working.

Maybe we should go back to the old way, where you bring back your bottle and get a coin deposit back from the cashier? That makes more sense to me.

This scheme is a load of old bollocks. But somebody is making out like a bandit somewhere.

Scheme/scam

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122079516#Comment_122079516

There seems to be differences in the machines rolled out, some may seperate them, some may not. I've seen videos of Re-turn plastic bins where both cans and plastic bottles were in a single bin, this was then collected by a Re-turn truck where the lot was tossed in the back, it didn't appear to have any option to segregate the plastic and cans even if they were previously separated so the whole seperation process is pointless.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083652#Comment_122083652

It should be that simple. But of course in Ireland we have to screw it up with machines that don't work, with machines that aren't wheelchair friendly, with no consideration given to people who get deliveries, or live in areas without RVMs.

So why did Ireland have to be different to the rest? Why is our exemption from manual returns so large compared to elsewhere?

Why don't Irish retailers have to take back returns manually if the machines are out of order? So why did Ireland have to be different to others on that?

Why are there no bulk RVMs at Council refuse locations? Why are there no public RVMs run by any state body to serve locations without RVMs?
So why did Ireland have to be different to others on that?

Why was the rollout such a shambles with confusion over logo, over deposits being charged for non refundable items? What is the point of the logo, except to screw over smaller companies, if all that matters is the barcode?

We've just given a dog's dinner of a scheme by vested interests here who want to wash their hands of responsibility and put all the hassle onto the consumer. And then we get patronising lectures from incompetent weasels like Ossian Smyth and the laughing jackasses running Re-turn and lying about it to the public. Doesn't matter to him, they can treat the public with contempt over the scheme, they still pickup their pay check for their invented job.

bog master

@odyssey06 WELL SAID!!!!!

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083652#Comment_122083652

You've left out a couple of steps there. Pay a deposit. Store the bottle/can. Travel to a machine in the hope it is working. Queue to use it. Get a voucher from a machine. Queue at a customer service till to get the deposit back or use it against future consumption.

How it should work is that if I buy a bottle of water at a shop at the top of O'Connell St and drink it whilst walking along O'Connell St is that I should be able to pop into a shop at the bottom of O'Connell St and get rid of the bottle and reclaim deposit.

Any retail outlet that sells bottles/cans should be obliged to take them back.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dublin-airport-has-no-plans-to-install-return-scheme-machines-despite-its-shops-charging-deposits-on-bottles-and-cans/a281591051.html

Re-turn told the guy in the article that in order to reclaim his deposit he would have to bring the bottle on holidays with him and bring it back undamaged. Ridiculous.

dxhound2005

I like watching the videos from other countries. Happy people make me happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b5P4K-AEwU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOZcycOf3tk