Where have all the workers gone?

Sammy2012 · 29-09-2023 6:32pm #1

I was just reading the garda thread and it got me thinking. I work in education and the huge teacher shortage is really starting to bite. Qualified teachers are in short supply. I see kids every day trying to access services that aren't there any more, both public and privately. Waiting lists of years even if you have the means to pay. There is a shortage of doctors and nurses again both in hospital and private practice. My own doctors surgery has gone from 7 doctors down to 2. Patient list growing daily. Hospitality sector are struggling to find workers.

These are just a few examples. So my question is where have all the workers gone???

TokTik · 29-09-2023 6:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058316064/where-have-all-the-workers-gone

Abroad for better pay and conditions.

Frank Bullitt · 29-09-2023 6:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058316064/where-have-all-the-workers-gone

Canada, Australia, Dubai, UAE, mainland Europe, you name it.

Not everyone has gone abroad to make huge money, but they see no reason to live in Ireland and pay mad rent or live at home with the folks. Can't blame them, I did it 10 years ago.

Silentcorner · 29-09-2023 6:45pm

And yet we spend €6 billion on funding NGO's. How many do we employ in those, 3,4K people? We have a Govt funded army of activists and a shortage of teachers, nurses and guards!

We are a great country all the same!!

We can tell you all about what the USA or the UK is doing wrong but when it comes to our own crises it's tumbleweed!!

StudentDad · 29-09-2023 6:50pm

It's simple really. When you take the cost of living away from the monthly salary, there isn't enough left over to make building a life here worthwhile. Lousy public services, public transport, general amenities etc etc. Why wear a hair shirt here when you can go to any other EU country and earn a similar level of income and get more in return?

29-09-2023 6:51pm

The population is increasing, the workforce is at an all time high, unemployment is at an all time low.

Simply put there are not enough available workers in the system.

Only way to address it is by inward migration.

StudentDad · 29-09-2023 7:00pm

Inward migration by itself, isn't enough. Jimmy from Milan or anywhere else for that matter will do the same sums as Jimmy from Cork and come to the same conclusion. He's better off in Milan.

tinytobe · 29-09-2023 7:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174102#Comment_121174102

The housing and mad rent isn't any better in Toronto or Vancouver in Canada, lot's of hourly wage jobs and only 10 to 15 days vacation. The city of Toronto is on the brink of bancrupcy, a rise in property taxes and all sorts of other taxes are expeced.....

Maybe Australia or mainland Europe are better choices.

Mrs OBumble · 29-09-2023 7:03pm

However Jimmy from São Paulo is likely to regard even a low standard of living here as better than what he could have at home.

Jim2007 · 29-09-2023 7:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058316064/where-have-all-the-workers-gone

The population is growing older all over Europe and Ireland is playing catch up! I moved to Switzerland over three decades ago and the very first day at work the thing that really hit me was how much older everyone was. In Ireland I was one of the oldest in the team and in Switzerland I was the youngest!

There is a massive shortage of healthcare professionals, educators, tourist industry staff and so on all over the single market and since there is mutual recognition of qualifications, you are competing across Europe for staff. So it is a combination of people leaving the workforce and heavy competition for staff that are willing to be more mobile.

Here in Switzerland our population is older than Ireland, so the problem is worse:

It is almost impossible to register with a GP. Hospitals run GP clinics and you just take your turn with the next available doctor.
Teachers no longer need to go through the training college. If you got a degree, speak the local language reasonably well, you’ll get a job.
Colleges and universities are struggling to present courses in the local languages so students end up picking courses based on their language strengths. So for example if you don’t have a good command of English, the getting a degree in science, math or technology will be difficult because very few courses are in the local language.
Companies have great difficulty filling apprenticeships. Every year there is a short fall of about 25,000 and companies try to attract young people from neighboring countries.

The aging workforce is a very big challenge around the world.

L.Ball · 29-09-2023 7:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058316064/where-have-all-the-workers-gone

Other places have it bad too, some places even worse. so stop moaning.

29-09-2023 7:38pm

I’m just out of hospital, where for some reason I met a hell of a lot more Irish nurses than I have in years. Some older ones, settled back here settled and raising families and very cheerful about it. I think these folk have saved hard for deposits, probably after working abroad. Have come across a cohort of mature Scottish nurses too who have settled here, less than an hour flight to relatives back home. A selection of Spanish/Portuguese nurses. Less Filipino and Indian nurses than previously, for sone reason. Maybe a lot have saved enough to but a decent house back home.,

riffmongous · 29-09-2023 7:41pm

I could have sworn that I saw a graphic a few days ago that said that that re-immigration (returning emigrants) was higher than emigration according to the last census? Particularly from Canada

donaghs · 29-09-2023 7:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174131#Comment_121174131

Sound like a pyramid scheme.

increasing population is creating a demand for services, schools, housing. So the solution is the keep increasing the population?

Blarney_man · 29-09-2023 7:58pm

Back home during pandemic

Blarney_man · 29-09-2023 8:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174196#Comment_121174196

It's like this all over Europe, Ireland is the best country to live in at the moment, in Europe. Outside of Europe maybe some middle east countries and Singapore can rival Ireland

the_amazing_raisin · 29-09-2023 8:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058316064/where-have-all-the-workers-gone

It's pretty simple, wages in most of those jobs aren't great and the jobs tend to be crap

People have been looking at what to do after their leaving cert for years and on one hand they can become a guard, uphold the law by dealing with the utter scum of the earth every day, put their lives on the line and get paid a sh!t wage and crap benefits

Alternatively they could do something like data science, get a graduate job paying €40k+, live with their parents rent free and work from their bed

Why would anyone choose the former?

Same goes for teaching, nursing, childcare and pretty much all the other jobs that are facing shortages.

And because there hasn't been a pipeline of people going higher education for those sectors, now there's a shortage of graduates. Those that do graduate probably look at their job prospects and decide to do something more lucrative instead

Some of them go abroad, professions like doctors or nursing are always in demand elsewhere and are very easy to transfer elsewhere. A doctor can make 2-3 times in the US compared to here and pay far less tax for example

The old trick when this happens was to just import workers. But between a housing crisis, skyrocketing rents and cost if living, plus some stories about crime waves in Irish cities (particularly targeting foreign nationals), those potential workers decide to go somewhere easier to live

babyducklings1 · 29-09-2023 8:02pm

It’s a very good question, Huge numbers left during the last recession, of the ones I know none have returned. The number of people who left is staggering so maybe there is a big gaping hole in our workforce of working age people? Don’t know.

Blarney_man · 29-09-2023 8:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174475#Comment_121174475

People won't return for one reason: "What will my neighbor say?" They have it bad all over the world, Ireland is a shinning star at the moment

Annasopra · 29-09-2023 8:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174113#Comment_121174113

A large majority of that 6 billion goes to schools, sports, medical services, older people's services, disability services. Not sure why you are claiming the 6bn stops government spending on nurses when a lot of it is spent on nurses in hospitals and disability centres.

Annasopra · 29-09-2023 8:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174312#Comment_121174312

Bullshit. Some of that 6bn includes wages for teachers and nurses.

francois · 29-09-2023 8:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174113#Comment_121174113

NGO's seem to be the new invented bogeman. The GAA is an NGO.

Drivel. Chronic underinvestment in housing is driving people aeay.

Mr. teddywinkles · 29-09-2023 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174528#Comment_121174528

To be honest building housing all over the place ain't the answer either. Considering our basic infrastructure is shite as well

SuperBowserWorld · 29-09-2023 8:24pm

So, when your kids are qualified from 3rd level where do they live? In your house? With their mammy and daddy. This is why people leave. Rent etc etc is too expensive here. And it's not the same everywhere. Just in the most expensive cities in the world.

Here is an interesting thread on Reddit re same ...

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/16r37g0/is_the_situation_in_ireland_really_as_dire_as/

The people saying everything is fine here are in the "I'm all right Jack brigade".

Frank Bullitt · 29-09-2023 8:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174113#Comment_121174113

What do NGOs have to do with nurses, teachers and guards though?

TokTik · 29-09-2023 8:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174507#Comment_121174507

What are you talking about? What 6bn?

AMKC · 29-09-2023 8:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174473#Comment_121174473

Alternatively they could do something like data science, get a graduate job paying €40k+, live with their parents rent free and work from their bed

Why the fook woukd you live with your parents if you were earning €40k+

I was on far less than that when I loved out.

Also they must be pretty stupid parents if their son or daughter is earning €40k plus and living in their house and not at least charging them €100 a week in rent.

That's just very bad parenting. Once you hit 18 living is not free nor should it be.

maninasia · 29-09-2023 8:37pm

I lived in an aged society and there is no absolutely no lack of docs and nurses, it's not well correlated. Each country has its specific issue going on . In Ireland we train docs and nurses, pay a lot of their fees but don't ask them to stat on for a few years after graduation.

Main issue by far is lack of housing in Ireland...we should build up, cheap housing and give folks a place to live. All govt agencies should build rental accommodation for their sector . Also have an immigration policy that reflects needs of the country.

the_amazing_raisin · 29-09-2023 8:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174628#Comment_121174628

I'm sure they'd love to move out but paying €1800 in rent for a shoebox probably doesn't appeal to a lot of people, especially when they also have to suck their landlords d!ck once a week on top to keep their lease

There's going to be a lot of young people forced to live with their parents just to afford a deposit on a €500k house which you couldn't swing a cat in

tabby aspreme · 29-09-2023 8:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174628#Comment_121174628

Because they are trying to compete in the rental market with people earning half that amount, or on social welfare who all have a Hap payment and can outbid the person on 40k when it comes to renting somewhere to live

Ginger83 · 29-09-2023 8:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174180#Comment_121174180

Yep they will work hard for the minimum and not speak up. As they are regularly told in a meat factory in this area if you don't like it you can go home and we will have another plane load here tomorrow.

Annasopra · 29-09-2023 8:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174528#Comment_121174528

Nearly 4000 schools included in the 6bn. It absolute and utter drivel to be ranting on about NGOs. The 6bn goes to scout groups, GAA clubs, churches, golf clubs, community centres, athletics clubs, churches, mental health services, disability services, older people's services, bowls clubs, after school clubs, music societies, addiction services, schools, colleges, homeless services, women's refuges, animal welfare, arts centres, health promotion, cancer services, housing associations, community first responders, soccer clubs, tidy towns, boxing clubs, archery clubs, rugby clubs, boat clubs, dog park, family resource centres, tennis clubs, heritage centres, playschool, theatre groups, carers support groups, youth clubs.....

And many others

maninasia · 29-09-2023 8:43pm

Many people don't know HOW difficult it is to return. Just finding a place is almost impossible unless you buy it outright. .Then you have to contend with stuff that is almost impossible... getting school places (really difficult ) getting a GP (really difficult), the car insurance that rips you off on top of the usual finding a job.

And as mentioned earlier the pay isn't great in Ireland for many who go back. it's ok at most but it's not an incentive to go back, taxes take a big chunk too.

Annasopra · 29-09-2023 8:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174590#Comment_121174590

Nothing but part of the 6bn referenced goes to Hopitals and Schools so it's nonsensical to be suggesting giving 6bn to NGOs means you can't pay nurses and teachers when a lot of teachers and nurses are paid within the 6bn.

Annasopra · 29-09-2023 8:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174594#Comment_121174594

The post you quoted...

maninasia · 29-09-2023 8:50pm

Delusional stuff.Ireland is the best country in Europe for what exactly? IT jobs only in US Multinationls...maybe..but IT professionals can get paid well anywhere.

You seem to not understand pay levels in the US and Australia. mid level managers in the US easily get 2x Ireland with less taxes. Salaries in Ireland aren't as high as you think.

Blarney_man · 29-09-2023 9:01pm

Spoke to a friend in Canada, healthcare is so good that they go across the border for MRI and pay privately. No waiting lists, no need to have referral, just rock up with a letter from your doctor what’s needed, MRI done in an hour, 10-12 months waiting list in Canada

Frank Bullitt · 29-09-2023 9:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174703#Comment_121174703

So they have nothing to do with it but you then say there is...got it.

Montage of Feck · 29-09-2023 9:03pm

Easy credit and financial jiggery pokery has screwed over the working class, there's money for everything except for the things that actually matter.

babyducklings1 · 29-09-2023 9:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174652#Comment_121174652

Yes think there is already and maybe going to be ( into the future ) young people living with their parents. Cost of college accommodation for example if students can commute it would be cheaper to live at home. And yes if people want to get a deposit together for a house. It’s definitely hard for the young know and they know it as well. Much more clued in about it , I’d say.

HBC08 · 29-09-2023 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174691#Comment_121174691

As someone who came back (from Asia) after a decade some of those things you just have to suck up.

Car insurance for instance is fairly explanatory as to how the NCB works (its still a rip off)

Its not that difficult to find a doctor (admittedly more difficult than it should be)

Once you have all this set up though and then you see the sh1t going on and who/what your taxes go to support it really grates.

Bottom line,it ain't easy to move home.If you do be prepared to have trouble getting set up,pay through your hole and bit your lip about it.

HBC08 · 29-09-2023 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174691#Comment_121174691

As someone who came back (from Asia) after a decade some of those things you just have to suck up.

Car insurance for instance is fairly explanatory as to how the NCB works (its still a rip off)

Its not that difficult to find a doctor (admittedly more difficult than it should be)

Once you have all this set up though and then you see the sh1t going on and who/what your taxes go to support it really grates.

Bottom line,it ain't easy to move home.If you do be prepared to have trouble getting set up,pay through your hole and bit your lip about it.

Annasopra · 29-09-2023 9:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174793#Comment_121174793

🤣🤣🤣

timmyntc · 29-09-2023 9:15pm

Nothing to do with aging population - there are just far more attractive career prospects now in Tech/Pharma/Consultancy.

That combined with other jobs (gardai, doctors/nurses, teachers) not having their wages keep up with cost of living means that people here just arent choosing it anymore.

Go to college, do IT or biomed, get a well paying job for a US MNC. Thats the career path now if you want to live in Ireland. Anything else and youll likely emigrate instead

Terrier2023 · 29-09-2023 9:20pm

Teachers & garda are no longer desired professions. Society has lost respect for authority and to be honest as a qualified teacher who doesnt teach modern kids are badly behaved spoilt and its not worth my effot to try and form them . For too long they have used teachers as baby sitters for their out of control undisciplined brats ! These brats go onto harass the gardai and no one needs that shite in their lives. Parent these days all want ot be their kids best friends instead of teaching them manners and boundaries, I wouldnt teach for triple the salary !!

Sammy2012 · 29-09-2023 10:00pm

Lots of valid points there. Yes rent is too high and housing is out of a lot of peoples reach but I assume this is the same in a lot of countries. In Australia the cost of housing is crazy also.

The problems that we are seeing are not going to go away. And it really makes me wonder what is going to happen with our public services and the workers who are working in them? Or are there any politicians who are willing to tackle any of these issues?

29-09-2023 10:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174882#Comment_121174882

To be fair, coming out with that hackneyed tripe, the children are probably better off with you out of the profession.

29-09-2023 10:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174729#Comment_121174729

You seem to not understand pay levels in the US and Australia. mid level managers in the US easily get 2x Ireland with less taxes.

2 words

Health insurance

Thelonious Monk · 29-09-2023 10:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174587#Comment_121174587

Where are they going? Rent is crazy everywhere these days. I have a friend who is an a and e consultant in Melbourne and can't afford to buy his own place. Nowadays Irish people leave for a while but most come back, I did this as did loads of folks I know.