Garda Representative Association's vote of no confidence in Commissioner Harris

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121122977#Comment_121122977

I say it makes no difference. Gardai are contacted to complete so many hours per week.on average over the year. If there is extra hours worked in any senarios they are either given time off from with there normal roster or laid OT.

Killinator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121122977#Comment_121122977

It's not an exact science as neither is based off a normal working week so I don't have exact details. Depending on how the roster fell at any particular part of a month you could be working more hours or less hours on either eg:

Taking a 4 week roster (28 days)

If you started work on the first day of a 6 on 4 off (10hrs) 4 week roster you would you'd work 18 days and rest 10, at 10 hours a day that's 180 work hours over the 4 weeks.

If you started work on the first day of a 4 on 4 off (12hrs) 4 week roster you'd work 16 days and rest 12, at 12 hours a day that's 192 work hours over the 4 weeks. So more hours worked over the 28 days but 2 extra days off.

It would change every month as months aren't 28 days long.

As far as being effectively deployed, it was better and safer for Gardai on the ground to only have the 4 active units because now the units will be diluted further to make up a 5th unit (E).

I already know of stations that have diluted some units to 1 member and others that just won't have a unit working at times as a result of this dilution.

Drew himself acknowledged we didn't have the number for this last year but now we have even less numbers and he's decided we do actually have enough to cover a roster that he didn't even want to introduce in the first place, but again, is only returning to out of spite, hence his failure to engage with unions on the matter

salonfire

Harris needs to face down the GRA in this mutiny. What a disgrace in a supposed disciplined force.

The new roster allows Gardai claim more in allowances for unsocial working hours, allows extra days off and a reduction in working hours.

There is no overlap in the shifts so to boost the numbers on a Saturday night for example requires overtime and not overlapped units.

Make no mistake about it, this is not about the public or the service available to the public.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121131547#Comment_121131547

ya its disgraceful isn't it that those involved in policing dont want it to degrade further than it already has.

if you had bothered to pay attention rather than just rant you would know that the issue goes way beyond rostering. even on that your information is woefully inaccurate and ignores the more eloquent explanations given by others here.

Do you not realize that Gardai themselves live in the communities ?

Past30Now

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121123163#Comment_121123163

If you ensure that the periods match, say 80 days, being 10 rosters of four on, four off, 12 hour days, equating to 480 hours of work compared to 8 rosters of six on, four off, 10 hour days, which also equates to 480 hours. Those eighty days represent 40 (12 hour) working days on the existing roster and 48 (10 hour) working days on the old/6 on 4 off roster.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121134242#Comment_121134242

My information is perfectly accurate. The covid roster allows more days off, more allowances and more overtime, so much so that it's causing budgeting challenges.

AnMuinteoirOg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121134589#Comment_121134589

Overtime is going to increase dramatically as units will be need to he supported massively by overtime just to provide basic policing needs. Regular Units are going to decimated to create a 5th unit.

mikethecop

The numbers involved in policing and frontline policing are falling all the time inspite of gov lies and misinformation ,

thye will drop about 10 percent if the current slide is allowed to continue . Why would people stay ? , there are recruitment agency specifically targeting serving gardai to move to private sector at this stage.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121135234#Comment_121135234

lies and misinformation

The irony. Staff turnover in the Gardai is no worse than any other organization. The increase in resignations can also be explained by less tolerance for mis-behaviour from Harris and a jump before being pushed mindset setting in.

Then there were the austerity and Covid years where no recruitment took place feeding into the pipeline now as members hired in boom years retire. It's simple mathematics. People retire every year but there are gap years in the intake.

There is plenty demand from people to join the Gardai. Templemore is going to be expanded for greater capacity.

Your post is just another example of unions spin. Using a drop-off in numbers as if to prove some grievance you have and that it gives you some type of basis for type industrial relation action or other.

AnMuinteoirOg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121135816#Comment_121135816

Where’s your source to say demand is an all time high?

just because people express an interest in public jobs doesn’t mean their going to follow through.

my brother started in templemore recently. Out of a class of what was supposed to be 200 only 139 turned up on the first day.

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107933#Comment_121107933

It’s working for Gardai. Working fewer days and earning more money as receiving unsociable hours allowances. Not actually on duty when they are needed.

AnMuinteoirOg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136142#Comment_121136142

So your going to make units smaller and have less Gardai working at any time to fix this?

Beasty

thread title updated to reflect the actual topic

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136173#Comment_121136173

It was my title, and given it was a direct quote from the commissioner after the vote I thought it reflected the actual topic pretty well.

Fair enough if you think the new title will bring more posters to the thread but after 7 days I'd say most have a fair idea of what it's about.

Assume you know I was quoting the commissioner, if you don't you're being petty.

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136166#Comment_121136166

Is it not the case that there may be times over a shift when there are fewer on duty, maybe the quieter hours, but there will also be times when there are more on duty?

What is the point in having Gardai in duty when they are not needed?

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107336#Comment_121107336

He literally did come from the RUC.

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107630#Comment_121107630

He was executed, or more accurately killed in active warfare.

AnMuinteoirOg

There will be overlap on a Friday and Saturday but only for a couple of hours. But with units so small it’s still going to be around the same that working anyway with the current roster. It just means outside this small overlap, policing numbers will be severely depleted. In reality crime happens 24/7 not just for a couple of hours a day.

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108403#Comment_121108403

It's not a different police force. It's official name is literally the PSNI (INCORPORATING the RUC George Cross).

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136427#Comment_121136427

And you have literally come from the 70s/80s

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136459#Comment_121136459

Yes - I literally come from 1981. Weird point to make though.

standardg60

Is there any chance of the original thread title being reinstated before more SF bots come in and ruin it? The 'actual topic' was being discussed.

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136433#Comment_121136433

Crime is not spread evenly over 24 hours though is it, Monday-Sunday? Is there really the need for the same no. of Gardai early on a Monday morning as on a Friday night? Would be interesting to see a graph showing times of call outs etc. over a couple of years.

Also the courts generally don’t operate evenings or at the weekends, that must be another consideration, as Gardai have to spend so much time hanging around waiting to give evidence. What’s the point in doing 4* 12 hour shifts if they don’t overlap to some degree with when they are needed in court.

I also heard on the radio that we have far fewer civilians in the Gardai, pro rate than other forces.

Cookie_Monster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121122977#Comment_121122977

If you can't keep them happy it won't be long before you can't keep them at all and the further the situation will degenerate. It's not exactly the career job it once was and recruitment and retention issues are reflecting that.

Killinator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136566#Comment_121136566

I know plenty of lads in the job with me, they have 15 or 16 years done, so at the half way point of their careers and full of experience.

So many of them have said that if the opportunity presents itself outside the job they'll be gone. Theyre not bothered by leaving behind (non-existent) gold plated pensions, 'cushy hours' and 'superb pay'.

The recruits that were supposed to be replacing the retirees are either not turning up to Templemore, quiting halfway through or realising during their probabtion that it's not worth it.

I came out of Templemore in 7 years ago and 10% of my class is gone already!

It's all good and well having crossovers for 'busy' times but that's no good when the numbers are then depleted when something happens at a 'quiet' time. We don't even use the Q word because theirs no such thing as far as we are concerned. And all the gougers know the start/finish times that Gardai work, or at least the professional gougers do, and they will know the crossover times on this new/old roster too so they'll just work around it. The likes of Johnny 10 pints isnt going to be too considerate as to wether there are Gardai on crossover or not when he takes his Jetta out for a spin.

My own brother works in a busy town down the south of the country. He's already on a unit of just one, himself. When/if this new roster comes in the plan is that he will still be on his own and that the units working either side of him will be empty now as the members of those prposed units had to be placed elsewhere to fill gaps and he has to just suck it up. He can now either be in the station or out in the car but not both and will receive complaints either way. He loves the job, or at least did but somehow management will be surprised when he throws in the towel for the good of his mental health. Simply because management at higher level don't listen and they don't care.

Again, this isn't just about rosters, there's a litany of reasons and the roster and it's implementation is the final straw.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136430#Comment_121136430

He was blown up by a car bomb on his way to church with his wife.

Re-classify that.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121135816#Comment_121135816

except even old fact prove your not even close to understanding , a four fold increase isnt an increase in your eyes ?

the demand issue has been covered multiple time in multiple threads if you cant understand its more of a you issue than mine but ill give you the ladybird version

approx. figures of course

5000 people apply online , 3000 pass the first stage , 2000 pass the 2nd , of them only 1000 go for interview , more fail the physical medical or background. your down to 500 . 200 are offered spots , 150 accept , and 10 of them leave before they finish training . at the rate we are going 30 or 40 more realize after a year that the cant or dont want to do the job,

Garda numbers continue to decline as resignations and retirements accelerate – The Irish Times

do you need more stats facts and figures or are you sticking with your flawed opinion because you once saw three gardai in centra getting a roll once so there must be loads around ? 😐️😏😏

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121138545#Comment_121138545

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

purifol0

Numbers are down are they? Funny this seems to have only happened since the Gardai under instrauction from the govt have started going woke with their recruitment. Sexism against men is of course illegal and yet its govt policy in public sector recruitment

https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2022/05/25/lapd-looks-to-garda-for-advice-on-recruiting-women/

Some fantastic nuggets in that piece. AGS was once almost exclusively male, now its a third female, with that number increasing year on year. Secondly an internal womens network has been established! Im sure if they created all male support network in the rest of the entire public sector (which btw is vast majority female), management would have no problem with that whatsoever....

We are told Gardai are leaving, but never given demographics on who exactly. Whereas when hiring "under represented groups" and pay gaps are involved, it's data galore!

I.R.Y.E.D

Going by the protests outside the Dail investment needed for the public order units and dog units, a few more Mals for the latter would be good, along with general investment across the force.