Garda Representative Association's vote of no confidence in Commissioner Harris

standardg60

If ever an example was needed as to how much our public services have become a union driven exercise in me-feinism this is it. Prior to Covid guards worked a 60 hour collective shift before earning 3 days off. This was reduced to 48 with no loss of earnings in order to minimise contact during the pandemic. Now that it's effectively over the one commissioner we've had who is outside of ego and influence who wants to return to the previous arrangement does not have the support of the vast majority of guards.

If anyone was wondering whether all of those guards were more interested in providing security for the citizens of this country as the commissioner does or providing for themselves they now have their answer. I personally know of a couple, both guards, who due to the pandemic arrangement were able to cease their childcare payments as one or the other would be at home. They have now voted no confidence simply because they would have to arrange childcare again.

mikethecop

Ya reckon the whole thing is a child care issue eh?

Str8outtaWuhan

He is the product of a sectarian state and a police force that would make the Gestapo blush. Good riddance. If they want new blood get a Canadian or new Zealander.

Bass Reeves

The Gardai is a disciplined force. The Minister of Justice should never have allowed this vote to go ahead and should have told the GRA so.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107267#Comment_121107267

Despicable post. While I would not totally agree with some of his handling of An Gardai I think he has done a fairly good job. One issue that needs sorting is GSOC

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107277#Comment_121107277

Minister of Defence?

Lol

Greengrass53

The gardai are a law onto themselves, no pun intended. The GRA have become like militant tendency in Britain. The problem is a supine govt have never stood up to this lot and now they're reaping the whirlwind. I hope Harris faces them down but more than likely he'll have to fall on his sword and some lackey like noreen o osullivan will be appointed and the govt will cow tow again. Shame on them.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107287#Comment_121107287

Corrected that for you

Str8outtaWuhan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107277#Comment_121107277

You've obviously never had dealings with the RUC in the 1970's/80's.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107309#Comment_121107309

We are not in the 70/80's and Drew Harris did not come from the RUC

Cookie_Monster

60 hours on (in what 5x 12 hours?) and 3 days off is utter shite for a roster and work life balance anyway. who would want to go back to that?

Str8outtaWuhan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107336#Comment_121107336

"Harris joined the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) in 1983." Took all of 2 seconds to Google. Do your research, the RUC Is in his very dna (his da was in it).

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107456#Comment_121107456

His father didn't get to retire he was murdered by the PIRA.

Members of the PIRA moved on to be elected politicians.

Most of us have moved on since the 80's.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107267#Comment_121107267

Any wonder things in NI have hardly moved on in thirty years. Move on. That's a deplorable post.

Sweet.Science

So we are desperately trying to recruit/keep Gardai and they want to make 60 hour collective shifts the norm ??

Good luck.

Large bottle small glass

I regularly deal with Gardai with work and have done so since 1998.

In that time the change in how they engage with me and others has changed beyond recognition. Really unhelpful/work to rule/unprofessional being the norm of late; as in last 10 years or so.

It's strikes me as an organisation in real trouble.

In the last few years I had to deal with PSNI officers a few times; it was like being cast back to 1998 only a more professional version.

I don't know what the fix is, but a dysfunctional police service isn't good for society

norabattie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107399#Comment_121107399

Totally agree!

They were doing 6 x10 hours. At the moment they are doing 4 x12 hours. It's a work life balance thing and it's working. No need to revert to the old one when this is working fine . Regardless of what your feelings may be towards the Gardaí doesn't everybody deserve to have a life outside of their job?

Cookie_Monster

i do 4x12 on 4 off and really like it. 6x10 and 4 off is terrible imo

prunudo

How does a 10 hour shift work? What way do they overlap the shifts. 12 hours are straightforward. Presume with 10 hours they can double up on staff during the busier policing hours.

AnMuinteoirOg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108122#Comment_121108122

Doesn’t really matter. Units will be made smaller to make up a 5th unit so the overlap will only provide the same number of Gardai that are working now. Outside of the small overlap, there will be less Gardai on the street than there is now.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107456#Comment_121107456

I did not say he was not in the RUC. He did not come from the RUC which he came from the PSNI. The PSNI is a reformed police force. And yes of course there is ex RUC officers in it. However when Drew Harris became commissioner if An Gardai he arrived from the PSNI.

You posts are typically if RA and the Shinnors. No acceptance that there is change anywhere, yet you want an united Ireland. You want it on your terms. The simple fact of Drew Harris having joined the RUC a force where his father was murdered while serving in has nothing to do with his service in the PSNI where he served as a senior officer while it was reformed. He did not arrive from the RUC and you earlier reference to the Gestapo tells a lot of your sectarianism.

Im torn on this one. Ordinary guards have very difficult jobs. I worked shift for years and changing shift patterns in teams, or (worse) in an entire organisation is extremely difficult and leads to big arguments so I totally see where they are with that one.

But this vote seems extremely personalised, they're going to fling yet another commissioner in the bin and the issues will remain.

Francis McM

The vote does not reflect well on the Gardai. It is a kick in the teeth not just to the Garda Commissioner but to the rest of us who pay taxes to support the Gardai. I know a good few Gardai who have had a relatively cushy, protected life and were able to retire after only 30 years on a very generous pension which nobody in the private sector can afford.

Oscar_Madison

I think the issue needs some dialogue- neither options are good if it means less guards on patrol, more crime etc etc

But, Guards certainly didn’t join the force for “work life balance” - I’m sure the civil service probably does that quite well if they want that sort of lifestyle - so that’s a bit of a red herring- priority should be effective policing first - had Covid not happened what were the previous working hours? If similar what’s the issue now that Covid has gone?

Guards can vote all day on whatever issue they want to vote on for all I care- but the reality is, if they’re not being effective in their role then something has to change-if this new roster comes in November, it needs to work - if it doesn’t work then this has all been as complete waste of time and we’re no further down the road towards better and effective policing

Bass Reeves

There has being attempts to reform the Gardai roster for the last twenty years. Basically working the old shift or the present 12 hour shift puts a lot of Gradai on duty during non peak hours.

12 hours shifts are worse than the old 10 hour roster. The roster is there to serve the public. 12 hour rosyer means a lot of Gardai are rostered nighttime from Sunday evening/ Monday morning to Thursday.

The simple fact is a lower level.of cover is required at certain times not compatible wit 12 hour shifts

mikethecop

if ever the lack of understanding of an issue was more clear lol

ill informed from the first line, gardai are prohibited by law from having a union and therefore lack the protections that a union may offer .

i could go into a long and detailed explanation of what the actual issues are but i fear it would be lost on most anyway who just want an excuse to rant against some authority figures .

but i will say this , if you think policing is bad in Ireland now , wait till you see what's gona happen next . Id say convertibly 10 to 15 percent of trained qualified and experienced ambers are planning to leave , another 150 going to western Australia police apparently,

planning my own exit now due to the impossible conditions

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109112#Comment_121109112

No shortage of people wanting to join.

Quote "Almost 5,000 people applied to join An Garda Síochána in this year's recruitment campaign. This is in line with the last pre-Covid campaign in 2019, which shows demand to join An Garda Síochána is as strong as ever. This campaign, which closed on 14 April, will provide a stream of candidates for future intakes."

It is a pity so many Gardai have retired on full generous pension aged only 50. If they had to work to 65 like most others ( or 68 ) it would be a lot fairer system.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058313656/a-kick-in-the-teeth

....not giving a fcuk about your workforce over a long period, will eventually catch up on you.......best of luck to them....

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109410#Comment_121109410

Garda recruitment campaign attracts fewer than half numbers than in inflated 2022 (breakingnews.ie)

that must be why they can barely fill Templemore, 5000 people may have filled out a form on publicjobs.ie but how many were suitable for the job in the end ? well now you will have a less well paid less motivated less competent police force .

that's what you want is it ? near 70 year olds walking the beat ? the reality is front line policing is a physically demanding and dangerous contact sport.

griffin100

This is the same Garda force who falsified thousands of breathalyser tests and stuck two fingers up with the support of their union when questioned on it. The same Garda force who victimised Maurice McCabe for daring to challenge the force, I have no doubt it was a GRA member who posted the rat photos aimed at him. The same Garda force who almost to a man and women lied and pretended to be ill so as to circumvent the ban on striking and gave us blue flu. I could go on.......Dean Lyons.....Kerry Babies......Sallins Train Robbery......To be honest I’d say the western Australian police force will regret taking on so many ingrates.

Garda care about Garda first and foremost, they look after themselves first. Protection of the force is their core priority. One of the grievances being aired this week was that they are being subject to disciplinary actions......surely that’s good? The current Commissioner is an outsider, he didn’t do through the two year indoctrination in Templemore where recruits are brought into the Garda way (see the post above where a Garda refers to themselves as an authority figure). That’s a big part of his problem and why the GRA have personalised this.

On Templemore why does it take two years to train a non specialist police officer? It’s a joke.

The government can’t allow the GRA to dictate who can and can’t be the commissioner. Time to stand firm.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109469#Comment_121109469

People have to work in to their late 60s now in most other jobs and they do not have a third of the pension you have when you retire.

Second point, not many Gardai seem to walk the beat now, there are plenty cruising around in cars and doing office jobs

The OP summed it up well: " Prior to Covid guards worked a 60 hour collective shift before earning 3 days off. This was reduced to 48 with no loss of earnings in order to minimise contact during the pandemic. Now that it's effectively over the one commissioner we've had who is outside of ego and influence who wants to return to the previous arrangement does not have the support of the vast majority of guards." end of quote

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109488#Comment_121109488

Sure why aren't ya joining up yourself for this great pension so?

Wanting Gardai walking the beat and there could be only two covering a good sized town.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109519#Comment_121109519

"Shure why are'ny you joinin'", say you. None of your business, says I. I could be too old, for 1.

There would be more Gardai walking the beat if they worked the same hours as before covid.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109488#Comment_121109488

coz policing is just like working in a shop or in IT is it ? but ye knew what ye were signing up for right ? there has been a dramatic change in Irish society and policing in the last 3 years never mind the last 20. so no we didn't, in fact pay and pension agreements with the gov were reneged on in 2009

excessive admin and awful management are some of the main reasons why there is discontent , they are also the reason you see less nd less on the street. if you dot like seeing gardai in cars , i ve good news for you Hyundai's are uncomfortable and unsuited for policework and spend more time in the shop than on the street . but when you have 3 or 4 gardai covering half a county at night ya sort of need mobility,

rosters is just the straw that broke the back

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109624#Comment_121109624

There won't, this has been explained.

Drew Harris himself said it wasn't possible to go back to the old roster due to numbers a year ago and now, with fewer Gardai, somehow it is possible. There are fewer Gardai now than pre covid. We've one of the lowest ratios of police to population in the EU but you've been conned into thinking fiddling around with rosters will somehow fix that.

There are fewer people applying to be Gardai, fewer people completing training, and of those that do, a significant proportion are just turning around and leaving. But again, you think a bit of roster fiddling will patch that up, despite the fact it will now make that problem even worse.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109671#Comment_121109671

Oh dear "Hyundai's are uncomfortable" says you. My, my, my.

Oh dear "Hyundai's spend more time in the shop than on the street" says you. Actually if you google it, Hyundai is one of the most reliable brands world wide, with above average reliability.

Anyway, I better let you get back to work.

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109709#Comment_121109709

Deliberately ignoring the part where he stated they are unsuitable for police work. You're not engaging in good faith here.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109709#Comment_121109709

doesnt your office chair get uncomfortable at the end of your 8 hr day ?

sorry first hand information isn't good enough for you.

having seen 3 Tucson's each having entire engine rebuilds with less that 40 000 miles convinced me . but im sure you know better ......

na thanks but i ve already done my 48 hour work week plus 6 hours court and a 3 body id this week ,

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109624#Comment_121109624

your over the age of 68 you think other people should be doing the job at ? fair play to you ,

there will be less , a lot less given the numbers now planning to exit asap .

but sure ACAB eh?

AnMuinteoirOg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109624#Comment_121109624

There won’t be because there will now be less Gardai working at any one time compared to the current roster

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109863#Comment_121109863

If you google car surveys you will see Hyundai come out top or near top in most of them.

For example: https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/manufacturer-news/2018/07/11/hyundai-is-most-reliable-car-brand-according-to-jd-power-survey

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109906#Comment_121109906

Not the taxpayers fault so few Gardai are working or so many retired aged 50 on full pension plus six figure tax free lump sum.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109906#Comment_121109906

Can you explain that to me because both i and the commissioner must be a bit slow. The covid rostering was introduced (20% less hours worked) to reduce the number of Gardai working at any one time but restoring the pre-covid rostering will mean even less Gardai working than the less Gardai working under the covid rostering did?

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121110167#Comment_121110167

There have been a significant number of resignations over the last 3 years that recruitment failed to overtake as the government intended and the creation and expansion of specialist units for fraud, domestic violence, cyber crime etc. have depleted the number of Gardai working on core units. There are fewer uniformed Gardai working in stations than there has ever been, in modern times at least.

Hungry Burger

Why did they change the roster over covid?

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121110191#Comment_121110191

If there are fewer uniformed Gardai then restoring their original hours worked before time off would seem like a rational thing to do would it not?

Obviously no one is going to be happy working more than they do now for the same pay but that's exactly what they were doing pre-covid. It's a scummy thing to do to personalise this on the commissioner rather than do the job that they signed up for. Maybe some have been blindly led into this by the GRA but morals amongst Gardai are distinctly lacking here.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121110091#Comment_121110091

Again first hand eyeball evidence directly contradicts your google search's i,m sure they are fine for the school run or whatever your up to your self

that Hyundai's are unsuitable for policing, its just one of the many many issues the fact this was raised before they were brought in and many times since then but is ignored by management is another issue

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121110205#Comment_121110205

So there would be less Gardai in direct contact with each other in the event of an outbreak

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121110102#Comment_121110102

Nope it would be the governments and upper garda managements fault , 6 figure gratuity ? really ? Chief or assistant commis ? coz mine would be less that 60 000 if i make 30 years , and if you were joining today significantly less .

hardly extortionate for 30 years of being asked to put your life and safely on the line

KilOit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058313656/a-kick-in-the-teeth

It's amazing to hear that a young family could spend more time with their family and reduce outgoings on childcare. a net gain to society

KilOit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107728#Comment_121107728

Being overworked and under-resourced for years would do that to you. the population has grown massively and they have less garda if you are comparing 10+ years ago

pop of Ireland is 1m more than 10 years ago with the same number of garda, they also have a ton more paperwork to go through, same for teachers and most public servants, expected to do more with the same level of resources. So if you deal with Garda a lot since 1998 you don't know jack **** about what they have to deal with

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121110309#Comment_121110309

Absolutely, and you could be enjoying those same benefits if you wander into work tomorrow and tell the head of your organisation that you've no confidence in them too