The Wolfe Tones

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072961#Comment_121072961

Nothing wrong with saying "we" about an English football team, but it's hilarious if somebody who does then starts going on about "West Brits".

I presume anybody who goes on about West Brits only speaks Irish, only watches TG4, only plays or follows Irish sports and only listens to traditional Irish music. I presume.

Otherwise they've been seduced by the evil culture of the alien.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072986#Comment_121072986

Anyone that uses the term "West Brit" un-ironically is likely to be a closeted Morris dancer. It is similar to evangelicals who are the most anti gay always get caught smashing a guy in the end.

rovers_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072991#Comment_121072991

Many proud Irish people have made a living in England, you can be proud of your culture and still live and mix with anyone else. The British establisment didn't see it that way for hundreds of years though did they?

event

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072648#Comment_121072648

They hang effigies of our Taoiseach and burn it FFS.

Could you imagine if there was a catholic event every year where there were dummys of the Queen or King burned? The brits would invade all over again. Yet you think if they played a few songs they'd be banned? Jesus Christ............

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070746#Comment_121070746

Without the provisional IRA's campaign in the north, there never would have been a good Friday agreement, maybe if the government of the Republic actually stood up for their fellow republicans in the north when they were being subjected at the hands of the British crown to horrific atrocities maybe there wouldn't have been a need for the provisional IRA to step in

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073019#Comment_121073019

This canard, if anything resorting to violence just made achieving a united ireland more difficult. If you start petrol bombing women, you lose the moral high ground. Of course SF will never admit to this. It is the same kind of cognitive dissonance that allows the Brits to live with invading Iraq, looking for non existent WMD, leading to the deaths of 500k. It's a coping mechanism.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072936#Comment_121072936

Plunkett wasn't in the IRA, he was in the IRB.

I think you are extrapolating too much from two isolated lines. He doesn't say he regrets all his actions and that he was led astray and that he wants to live his life over again. He (Plunkett as a character in a song) is saying that all he wants (now) in his lonely prison cell is to be with Grace.

But then he goes on to say "Now I know it's hard for you my love to ever understand/The love I bear for these brave men, my love for this dear land" and that he had to go fight with Pearse in the GPO.

So there is ambiguity in that the Plunkett of the song is partly torn between his love for Grace and his love for his comrades in arms and Ireland. There is regret but it is mixed up with other contradictory emotions imo.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072476#Comment_121072476

Well the loyalist are an unwelcomed group occupying land wrongfully still in the hands of the British crown, but one day we will have those 6 counties back, and they can sing there songs in Scotland or England, where ever they are welcomed

rovers_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072998#Comment_121072998

Try to stay on point pet.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072845#Comment_121072845

Yeah if you say so. Go away and read a bit of history about dunmanway and the bandon Valley in the early 1920s.

Maurice o keeffe of irish life and lore has plenty of interviews with old people recounting their idyllic childhood as a Protestant / non Catholic.

Apologies it was a great uncle of mine that was held from a bridge.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073029#Comment_121073029

So we should just roll over and accept it... Thankfully there is a willingness to open dialogue and solving the issues via the means of politics

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073034#Comment_121073034

It's only your opinion that that land is wrongly in the hands of the British crown and your opinion means diddly squat. The Good Friday Agreement as voted for by 94% of voters in the South and 71% in the North recognises Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom. That's democracy and only democracy can change that situation.

The Provos wanted to change that situation via a murder campaign when they didn't have the support of the people, and unsurprisingly failed completely and had to surrender.

They achieved nothing only creating 10 martyrs who died needlessly and a lucrative line in Bobby Sands t-shirts and posters. But t-shirts and posters and chants don't equal a united Ireland. They only magnify the Provos' total failure and the devastation they unleashed on society.

Your opinion that a community that has been there for 400 years should simply leave the island and disappear is a prima facie demonstration of why all nationalism is extremely dangerous at its heart. It's like what you'd have heard from a Unionist extremist in the 1920s asking why all Catholics didn't simply disappear to the South.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072588#Comment_121072588

It's sung by drunk people having a bit of craic.

Its also sung as a stand against all the political correct bullshit which is rammed down our throats all the time.

It's also sung in support of the Irish ladies team who were wrongly picked on for singing it.

It's sung for lots of reasons. Clearly you are disconnected from reality on this.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072943#Comment_121072943

Coming from the lad calling other posters a grunting pig LOL.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072596#Comment_121072596

And the killing led to the Good Friday Agreement? Or as the late Seamus Mallon put it ‘Sunningdale for slow learners’.

Not disputing for a moment though that Catholics were an oppressed (to put it mildly) minority for much of NI history.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073032#Comment_121073032

That's what makes it a great song, unlike something like the Celtic Symphony rubbish. There is ambiguity, there are alternative meanings, there are feelings and emotions. You can have your take on it, I can have mine. That is why I described it as very interesting and a slightly different take being possible, wasn't being definitive.

A lot of the repertoire of the Wolfe Tones (with the exception of The Streets of New York) is dire rubbish, simple and simplistic. Most hate is just like that, simple and simplistic.

An Claidheamh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070599#Comment_121070599

Sorry hold on

the Provos were dragging “your country’s name in the gutter”?

Why is it “our country” when the Provos do something?, but according to RTÉ/BBC,

NI was British and not “our country” and therefore not for us to question.

Ireland does not own NI, we did not start the Troubles, we did not perpetuate and create the mess.

You had no problem in the 60s and 70s when Britain was dragging Irish people in the gutter, gunning down civilians, bombing Dublin - because the victims were Irish and could get away with it,

but a trad band offend you, give me a break, new generation do not have the same slavish inferiority complex and are happy to view the last few decades without censorship and British bias

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073071#Comment_121073071

That's all he is, doing an Alan Partridge "moooooooooo" impression. Nothing but trolling, as is the case with all people who are defending the Up The Ra chant.

Pig, grunt is the appropriate categorisation of that.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073034#Comment_121073034

Such 19th century disgraced territorial thinking which led to the worst wars ever on this planet in the first half of the 20th century. British loyalists are as native to this island as anyone else, and entitled to their identity here.

An Claidheamh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073011#Comment_121073011

Always wondered why we didn’t do that, especially considering British politicians and media attend and enjoy orange parades and bonfires,

the British would eventually stop the orange marches if the butcher’s apron, Protestant iconography and effigies of their royalty was burned en masse every year only to stop it happening to them

Then we would have no sectarian and atavistic associations on either side

But imagine Official Ireland challenging double standards and hypocrisy instead of normalising them

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073063#Comment_121073063

Sure by that rationale the extreme anti-Catholic bigotry on show around 12th of July bonfires is only "a bit of craic". "KAT" is "only a bit of craic".

When NI soccer supporters sing "We hate Catholics, everybody hates Roman Catholics" to the tune of Tiffany's "I Think We're Alone Now", ah, shure that's only a bitta craic.

But it isn't "a bit of craic". It's part of a systematic ideology of bigotry that makes Catholics feel fearful. And they are right to be fearful.

And it's the exact same with the "Up The Ra" chant.

Time these people learned some real history rather than the Disney version they've fed themselves.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073011#Comment_121073011

So you agree that they don't have a band up on a stage in front of thousands, with sound equipment , loudspeakers etc belting out with the crowd "U,U, UDA, F* the Pope and the IRA" ?

While down here we glorify terrorists in song on a stage in front of thousands.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121072845#Comment_121072845

A lot were burnt out. Intimidated out. Murdered, like those in west Cork a century ago. For a generations or two after independence, virtually no protestants got jobs in the Irish public service. North of the border, at least some catholics got government jobs there. No wonder the % of protestants declined greatly in "the free State" while in N. Ireland the % of Catholics increased.

Back on topic, the Wolfe Tones chanting pro-IRA lyrics is an insult to the many people the IRA murdered / maimed. Do not forget the IRA was behind 99% of the 16,000 bombs / explosions during the troubles.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073088#Comment_121073088

Any British loyalist I've met have been hatefilled scum...I have many people from north of the border who were nice, but any of them that were unionist were nasty pieces of work, I was lucky one night In Derry that some Derry city fans came to my aid after parking my car in loyalist area, I probably wouldn't be still here

rdwight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073034#Comment_121073034

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073034#Comment_121073034

Should we roll land ownership back to 1649, 1603, 1585 or go the whole hog and aim for 1169?

Just curious, would my current house ownership be affected?

An Claidheamh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070915#Comment_121070915

Those groups are actually pupeteered out of Britain, their WhatsApp groups were uncovered (by an IT journalist) and they are essentially British loyalists and pro partitionists

They speak of Irish sovereignty in the same way the Brexiters do, pretending their on our side, while actually do not believe Ireland has a right to be free and reunified

they are fervently anti-Sinn Féin and one of their leaders is Rowan Croft who is a proud British soldier

Be interesting what the Shinners do when they are in government and foreign agents are threatening them and the state, soon find out how much the tracksuit brigade really care about vaccines, immigrants, 5G

lumphammer2

Censorship is alive and well in Ireland ... anyone who thinks there is no censorship on music in Ireland better think again ... for years RTE and other such media have been deciding on what gets pushed and what does not ... they want us to listen to Imelda May, Gavin James, Dermot Kennedy or whoever their latest flavour of the month is ....

Most music in Ireland is not banned ... but it is just not promoted either ... I am a fan of Elvis Presley and Charlie Rich most of all and anyone reviving their work today will not be able to gain any support whatsoever in Ireland ... this style is totally ignored ...

Rebel songs though are actually banned off our airwaves almost totally ... The Wolfe Tones have been singled out for years and the Celtic Symphony in particular ... it is easy to ban such songs due to the Good Friday agreement and the like ... but it is convenient to do so as the powers that be know it is popular and a threat to Imelda May or Dermot Kennedy dominating the airwaves ...

An Claidheamh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071681#Comment_121071681

FFG/Joe Duffy logic :

”The IRA killled more Catholics than the Brits, but the Brits did not kill Catholics also, but if they did the Catholics brought it on themselves as the Brits exclusively targeted Catholics”

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071920#Comment_121071920

As far as I know it's legal to have a shite in public but I strongly suggest that people try to avoid doing it.

In the same manner I'd advise people to learn their history and stop chanting Up The Ra, because chanting Up the Ra is about as embarrassing and revolting an act as having a shite in public.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073157#Comment_121073157

That isn't their logic. It's what you desperately want to think is their logic because it's far easier for you to argue against a straw man than against what people actually say.

The discrimination the black community faced in the US was far worse than that faced by Catholics in the north. But there was no three decades long campaign of murder by them. They won their civil rights by peaceful means.

The discrimination faced by black people in South Africa during the apartheid regime in South Africa was far worse than that faced by Catholics in the north. But again there was no three decades long campaign of murder. The black people endured and brought down the system via peaceful protest.

Yet we are supposed to believe there was no alternative to three decades of murder in the north. Wot a larf.

Bloody sure there was an alternative and the Provos killed it.