Peter McVerry Trust has 'financial issues'.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189347#Comment_121189347

Ah jaysus , bless you.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189352#Comment_121189352

Criticise something I didn't say, deflect to another topic, throw in a personal insult. I am not going to engage.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189361#Comment_121189361

Oh right, so you're just criticising everything they do without having any actual solutions to offer, got it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189337#Comment_121189337

But does not answer the question, do the clients get life long support, I support two charities at Christmas one is a small support/ preventing homelessness in young people type service, I do this because I knew someone who worked there and they had a lot of experience and said the service is excellent and secondly the don't activity fundraise.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189369#Comment_121189369

Some get life long support.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189369#Comment_121189369

You can choose support whatever charities you like.

You can't choose to tell every charity in Ireland how to run their services.

What's the problem with providing lifetime supports to people with lifetime needs?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189377#Comment_121189377

Well, we have legislation in place to tell charities how to run their services, we also have public spending rules for them to obey, and we have revenue as well to collect from them, so in many ways charities are told how to run their services.

Certainly in the case of the subject of this thread, they have been caught out by at least one of the ways they have been told to run their services.

I am sure that you will agree that whether it is a business, a charity or Joe Soap, it is not a good thing to avoid paying your taxes?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189377#Comment_121189377

Nothing wrong with it did I saw there was?

It's only swapping one thing for another the closer of the large mental hospitals has a lot to do with today's situation, St Brendans has something like 3 thousand patients at one stage, they also had large workshops employing tailors, boot makers, a farm all to provide for the 3 thousand inmates who often spent their whole life there.

It's funny how society can suppress one thing only for it to arise again in another guise, the large mental hospitals had nurses, tailors, boot makers, and farm workers, in today's society it's homeless services, care workers, policy advisors.

I think that's a really interesting philosophical point.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189558#Comment_121189558

You have it in one. We went from 100% institutions to almost 100% care in the community. The reality is often something in the middle is required. Purpose build communities where people can have 'their own front door' but the backup services are there to insure they are feed, cleaned, educated, employed etc. I have seen it my self with a young who parents died going into these homeless services. Deteriorating over the years and begging outside shops, as he had nothing else to do.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189397#Comment_121189397

I absolutely agree that it's not a good think for PMV or any person or business to be avoiding paying their taxes. Indeed, it seems that PMV would agree with this too. It does look like they dropped the ball here, and they should absolutely be held to account for this.

There's a big difference between that statement, and the constant, tiresome, ill-informed rants about what they do and how they do it from those who wouldn't recognise a housing support if they tripped over it, from those who have no idea about the processes in place between PMV and their various funding departments, from those who want to impose their own personal value system on a housing support service, with zero evidence to support this.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189727#Comment_121189727

You have to be realistic, no organisation getting taxpayers' money can just say...trust us we know what we are doing leave us alone, society is entitled to know if he money any state-funded organisation is spending is effective in doing what the organisation says it is doing and that is not just about accounting for the money they get.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190052#Comment_121190052

Here’s the bit you didn’t read;

from those who have no idea about the processes in place between PMV and their various funding departments,

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189313#Comment_121189313

And that is most definitely needed.

Second chance of life so to say. Absolutely should be paid for by the public purse and if even a minority can stand on their own two feet afterwards. Worth every penny.

I think the issues some people have is the lifestyle and also the continuous financial scandals. Value for money. I'm not saying the on the ground workers, they deserve way more money.

Plus 100k for a ceo is nothing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190405#Comment_121190405

This seems to have upset you, so sorry about that, this is a discussion site where individuals can have any opinions they like even if they are daft.

I was also mildly curious as to why some homeless services don't actively fundraise and some do.

ebbsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184117#Comment_121184117

Not all materials are always refunded.

The materials budget consists of the number of participants multiplied by an amount per participant.

Therefore if you have a small of participants you are goosed.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189618#Comment_121189618

It's not a 'philosophical question'. It is a human rights question.

You're painting a very one-sided picture of Grangegorman there. Would you like to consider the lobotomies and ECT 'therapy' given to 'cure' homosexuality and other conditions? Would you like to talk about the overcrowding, the abuse, the complete lack of any independence and dignity?

We don't lock people away because they are inconvenient or awkward for us.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190739#Comment_121190739

I am not saying Grangegormn was any better clearly not.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189727#Comment_121189727

I think you are probably guilty in your posts of the exact same thing you accuse others of.

There is no doubt that the poverty industry housing charities are inefficient. They add an extra layer of bureaucracy and inefficiency to something that local authorities should be empowered to do. Their raison d'etre as set out in many of their strategic plans is to increase the amount of money they get from the taxpayer.

€2,200 a month was the figure given earlier in the thread for the money spent by PMVT per client. I don't know if it is accurate, but nobody has provided a reasoned alternative amount. Do you think that is good value?

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121191698#Comment_121191698

2200 a month ,food , electricity, gas , linen , fire alarm service , lift maintenance, routine maintenance, key workers , supper accessing external services , insurance , catering staff and so on .

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121191698#Comment_121191698

Be careful what you wish for. If you want local authorities to take on this service directly, you'll be paying all the staff at full public service rates with full public service pension entitlements. That will increase the overall costs of the service by 20-40%.

PMV's strategic goals are set out below, and do not match what you suggested. It's not entirely unreasonable for any service organisation to try to maximise their funding.

Is €2,200 per month a reasonable cost? Your opinion and my opinion on this don't matter. What matters are the opinions of the funders, who are directly involved, and who know what are the costs of the other players in the market, and what are PMVs input costs, and what are their success measures.

Your opinion and my opinion on the €2,200 per month cost are as relevant as your opinion and my opinion on the €250 million cost for a Boeing 787 jet. If we're not experts in that sector, our opinions aren't worth a toss.

mikep

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/10/11/peter-mcverry-trust-chief-executive-resigns-criticising-long-standing-governance-failings/

Things are getting worse at PMcV.

Chief exec who started in June has resigned stating that there was repeated and long standing governance failings

The trust had insufficient funds to meet creditor, payroll and revenue commitments.

It survived by selling property in Santry for 1 million and plans to sell more worth 5.8 million.

Raises more and more questions..

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224352#Comment_121224352

Real questions now for the Board, especially the Chair of the Board.

Have been saying this for quite a while, I asked serious questions on this thread about the accounts that nobody could answer.

hotmail.com

Looks like a lot more to come out of this.

Trust in charities is already so low. People just won't support it.

Rubberchikken

As a lot of the money they receive is tax payer funded then anyone and everyone's opinion is valid.

Just because they are a charity doesn't exclude them from running the business legally and by the rules they are supposedly governed by.

I think for too long this particular one has been raing it in because of the name and the man who was instrumental in setting it up.

But rules are rules. Tax payers money is and must be wholly accounted for. Rte are realising this this past summer.

We have way to many homeless charities.

And tbh if someone has 2,200 a month to live on I think they would be.soing pretty well. The amount of ceo/CFOs living off the charity industry is laughable and needs to be exposed.

dulceetdecorum

Allegedly allegedly allegedly, I normally wouldnt make a post like this but I emailed the people conducting investigation and they basically told me i needed written proof for everything etc. When it was just a tip off and obviously i'm not gonna have signed photocopies of everything - I was only shown the letter and of course it wouldnt occur to me during the most stressful time of my life to keep records of stuff like this. Felt like a slap in the face as I was terrified to raise a concern because they hold so much power over you in them hostels that you still feel it when you leave.

When I was there without straying into detail a hell of a lot of people randomly got letters about large amounts of arrears with no proof to back it up, they couldnt provide me with any proof or where they got the figure that I apparently owed and after I challenged it it seemed to yave been dropped.

I do not know this for a fact, but I have heard rumors of people leaving the service and still having money being taken out of social welfare over a month after.

I have also heard rumors about how impossible the finance department are to get hold of even for staff and that they make a lot of mistakes.

Im so anxious to bring any of these up but you guys have no idea how vulnerable you feel in a hostel and to have weird financial stuff like this going on was way too much.

touts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224352#Comment_121224352

Looks like he discovered what a lot of new CEOs have in the past. When the man whose name is over the door is still in the room you are not the chief of anything.

They needed to appoint a real independent experienced CEO from outside to lead the organisation and failure to do so only demonstrated that they had no intention to fix the problems only hope the crisis would blow over and the gravy train would keep running. If he is gone now I would suspect there is more seriously bad news on the way.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225339#Comment_121225339

No, everyone's opinion isn't valid.

Cardiac surgery is taxpayer funded, so can drop into the matter and give the surgeons my valid opinions on how they should be doing their cardiac surgery, despite me having zero experience or knowledge of the topic?

Everyone can have an opinion sure, but let's not pretend that they're based on actual knowledge and understanding.

Why do we have 'too many homeless charities'? Do we also have 'too many plumbers'? Do we also have 'too many ladies fashion shops'?

Your confusion between getting €2,200 to live on and PMV charging their funders €2,200 for a service which includes accommodation and support services shows exactly why everyone's opinion isn't valid.

How do we get CEOs and CFOs to manage these large charity organisations of they don't get to earn a living?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121224679#Comment_121224679

Why would you expect that random commenters would be able to answer your questions? Maybe you should have directed your questions at the organisation themselves, though I'd guess they'll have other priorities at the moment.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121225728#Comment_121225728

Well maybe some of the commenters, including yourself, should have dialled back the outrage at the questions being asked. There clearly is something badly wrong at the charity, at best there is a serious level of incompetence. What is most worrying is that the board were asked by the recently appointed CEO to bring on some others with experience to help with the governance issues. The board refused, either through pride or incompetence or something to hide. Let's wait to see what comes out.