Niger

ElitesTeam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968051#Comment_120968051

Got to love how a MOD ref wiki and still got it wrong, Yurt2 was right all along.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968342#Comment_120968342

If you require any assistance in understanding the difference between analogy and reductionism just ask.

brickster69

Meloni really has a strong opinion on all this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzfrvfoM2Cs

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968164#Comment_120968164

Hahaha! What a braindead post.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968310#Comment_120968310

Russia again calling for peace for a situation they had a major part in causing in the first place eh?

They are great at calling for “peaceful solutions” when they realise they may have overextended themselves. Rarely anything other than weasel words though

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120967672#Comment_120967672

Well America is the west, so pick pretty much any country in South America and you’ll find pro-West coups.

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968288#Comment_120968288

using two black paedofiles as an analogy example... you were definitely a Rolfe Harris fan.

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968919#Comment_120968919

not really... Russia have as much skin in the game as everyone else that was mentioned, yet you're banging on about hypocrisy..

only hypocrisy is Russia pushing for non-military intervention because they don't have enough Wagner forces there to sustain their own interest.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969136#Comment_120969136

When was the last military coup in South America? All are under civilian rule. Peruvian President attempted a swindle in the last couple of years that could be described as an attempted coup, he was impeached and ousted within days. Left-winger. Solo-run and no military involvement.

I'm aware there is a history of coups in South America. Military coups in Central and South America (though we haven't had one in a while) are routinely referred to as juntas in English, be their orientation left or right. And it's well understood.

The last junta of South America was probably Fujimori's Peru (though more civilian ruled than military towards the end), and he was no friend of the US despite being right wing. If fact, the US did most to end him after the sham elections of 2000. There was a previous left wing junta from 68-80, which again, was and is routinely referred to as a junta in English.

crusd

Is there really an opinion out there that we should not condemn military coups that overthrow democratically elected governments because in the past some western countries also backed led military coups?

The your not perfect therefore everything you say is wrong gambit that infects every debate these days?

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120967175#Comment_120967175

Welcome to the world of geo politics where double standards are rife. There are people who are not opposed to coups on a point of principle, rather it depends on which side of the political spectrum the backers fall on. Some opponents are united by this double standard.

One thing is for sure The Chinese and Russians are not involved in Africa for the good of Africans.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969248#Comment_120969248

That's precisely what many in this thread are attempting to do.

They'll start threads about Niger, but they want to talk about everywhere else but Niger, to tell us that what is happening in Niger is all perfectly justifiable.

So far in this thread, they've dragged us all around the globe from Libya to Ukraine, to South America - anywhere but Niger.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969238#Comment_120969238

Honduras 2009, Venezuela 2002. Both backed by US. The US are the biggest mafia in the world. I’d recommend reading The Devils Chessboard.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969254#Comment_120969254

And the west are?

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969248#Comment_120969248

Only 1 in 7 Nigerians have power, while France mines Niger's uranium which provides 70% of Frances energy.

"We have uranium, we have diamonds, we have gold, we have oil, and we live like slaves? We won't accept it. The French base in Niger must leave." Gen. Abdourahmane Tchiani

More power to him. I hope he succeeds.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969289#Comment_120969289

It depends who you ask. Lizzyjane and Gatling might give you a different answer on that.

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969322#Comment_120969322

And what is your opinion? Do you believe the west is involved in Africa for the good of the African people?

Big Ears

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968310#Comment_120968310

And do you believe democratic elections have a place in that or that long term military rule, putting down any dissent is the only way to achieve this ?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969322#Comment_120969322

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣.

🤦

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969272#Comment_120969272

For one thing, Honduras is not in South America.

Secondly, the Americans gave warning to Chavez that the opposition were planning a coup (he ignored them). You can read the released declassified document, mostly because of persistent conspiracy theorizing. And it was a failed coup.

The US have a blotted copybook in their neighborhood, but we're talking many decades back. They do not overthrow governments by clandestine means since before you were likely born.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969385#Comment_120969385

The West has donated hundreds of billions to Africa to improve health infrastructure, education infrastructure, transport infrastructure and much more besides.

And hundreds of billions more in soft loans from infrastructure and development banks.

Believe it or not, Africa badly needs Western capital investment and technology transfers. And if you want Africa to succeed, you should want more of the West in Africa and less rapacious lenders like the Chinese, and less of the Russians who have a pure extractative agenda.

The reason? If an African nation falls delinquent on its loans to a Western lender, the refinancing typically happens on extremely soft terms that does not put the state on the brink.

The Chinese have been proven to bend debtors over and extract as much blood as they can. The less said about the rapist Russian mercenary gang wandering the continent the better (literally, you can go find the grim stories).

You asked a rhetorical question as if you had it sussed. You are either ignorant to the above or you don't care. Either way, not good.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969302#Comment_120969302

Wouldn’t it have been better for Niger if he had taken power by winning an election?

One of Niger’s most serious problems has received scant attention here - a population explosion. Women in Niger have more children than anybody else on earth.

https://theconversation.com/niger-is-africas-fastest-growing-country-how-to-feed-25-million-more-people-in-30-years-198321

SortingYouOut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969880#Comment_120969880

Women in Niger have more children than anybody else on earth.

Not far off and this is a problem across much of the continent. Would be the making of emerging economy status for most if they weren't so exploited by their own officials and external forces.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969824#Comment_120969824

I don’t think you’d need to be a conspiracy theorist to see ongoing American scheming against Maduro, and their policies on Cuba for the last 60 years have been both hypocritical and counter-productive. They object to authoritarian governments in the Americas hostile to them but have no problem supporting friendly ones in Egypt and across the Middle East. Another Republican president could plunge the region further back into these tensions. The US has to allow its neighbours to make their own mistakes. That’s what respecting national sovereignty is all about. The people of Cuba are positively disposed to America and evidence for the failure of Castro’s system is all around them. Constructive engagement is the best policy.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969959#Comment_120969959

It's no secret that the US isn't a friend of the current Venezuelan government, and no wonder, the place is a smouldering wreck. It's all well and good talking about letting countries make its own mistakes or chastising the US for being a (somewhat) security ally of Egypt.

But I'll put it this way, do you want an Egyptian government holding the world's trade hostage (Suez canal)? Do you f*ck.

Maybe you'd like Putin landing in Cairo offering treats and to see goods and energy supplies to Europe strangled off?

Sometimes you have to live in the real world and maybe give a silent nod to the fact that the US garuntees your ability to heat your home and get to work, and put trainers on your feet.

Absolute piousness in the world of international relations doesn't cut it when fundamental realities need to be dealt with.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969385#Comment_120969385

Generally speaking, the people who run democracies are not monsters. They want to help those in need if they can. There’s an element of enlightened self-interest in there too. Prosperous, safe African states are a clear benefit to Europe in providing more opportunities for trade and controlling the northward flow of illegal immigration.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969302#Comment_120969302

The French can't force them to work, can't force the society to cut out corruption, can't force them to work for the greatest good.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120970010#Comment_120970010

Actually, what I’m asking from the US for is more realism, not less. By any reasonable yardstick the policies on Cuba have been an abject failure - 60 years of it! - and have damaged US relations across the Americas, including in Canada. This idiotic approach has been pursued partly because of political pressure from Cuban exiles in Florida rather than America’s own interests. To America’s leaders I would say, treat Cuba like any other foreign policy problem and go easy on the self-righteousness. It looks ridiculous.

Yes, the world is what it is. In an era when authoritarianism seems on the rise, we in the West have to do deals with the likes of El-Sisi and MBS, distasteful though that may be.

Just because I point out some inconsistencies in America‘s policies doesn’t mean I support Putin or his mercenaries. The Wagner Group will bring more disorder and death to Niger. America is strong enough to take a bit of criticism. Its system welcomes that.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120970096#Comment_120970096

We're all over the map here again, and I think it's worthwhile getting back to Niger but I'll make the following points as succinctly as I can

- Latin America cares less about USA's Cuba policy than you'd think

- Canadian and American relations are about as tight as you can get, and I doubt Cuba makes the agenda on a Foreign Minister level all that often. (This is not an endorsement of the Cuba policy btw, it could have thawed significantly after the USSR shat istelf)

-The US navigates the most complex set of bilateral relationships the world over. Generally they're damn good it at it, and they have grave responsibilities that a country like Ireland can't fathom. Mostly because no one or no system is fit to take their place, particularly in the security realm

- My comment on Putin and Egypt was simply illustrative of why for the good of Europe, Asia, and everybody really the US manage the relationship with the Cairo government of the day tightly. The alternative is not worth considering

Ardillaun

I agree on thread drift and apologise for my part in that. I was responding to a post and this will be my last on non-Niger issues. Niger and other African countries deserve a much bigger place on the boards. Their problems show up in many ways, not least in increased immigration to Europe.

Yes, Canada and the US could hardly be closer, united as they are by a shared geography, history and politics. But we Irish don’t need to be told that even the friendliest neighbours can have differences: trade deals, a constant irritant in Canada; wars, Chrétien wisely keeping Canada largely out of Iraq despite considerable American and domestic pressure; immigration; pipelines; and foreign policy issues. In 1996 the US brought in the Helms-Burton Act that allowed nationals to sue for compensation for assets lost in Cuba since the Revolution. The threat of this extraterritorial action was kept at bay by presidential waivers but Trump stopped that and now the zombie has arisen to threaten foreign investment.

https://www.saltwire.com/nova-scotia/business/us-judge-orders-norwegian-cruise-line-to-pay-110-million-for-use-of-cuba-port-100810125/

https://www.saltwire.com/atlantic-canada/opinion/commentary-new-life-for-helms-burton-bad-news-for-canada-100818857/

Here is the advice offered by the Canadian government to anybody sued under Helms-Burton:

https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj-sjc/fema.html