Disputing crossing red traffic light ticket

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120837789#Comment_120837789

But that doesn't change anything in the OP's case. With the yellow box, the OP gets a green light, proceeds into the junction, waits for a gap in traffic, and completes the turn assuming they can exit the junction completely. If there's no yellow box... the OP should do exactly the same thing. It doesn't change anything from the OP's perspective

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838538#Comment_120838538

But that doesn't change anything in the OP's case

Correct, OP did nothing wrong.

newmember2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120834618#Comment_120834618

Yes this, you held back when you should have driven forward with your vehicle in the middle of the road you're about to turn into. The video looks like you held back across the nearside lane of that road and then when the light went red you still had to move forward and then turn making it look like you broke the light. Not sure what the garda is saying about you cannot see and it's a peculiar junction or something. You can obviously see every direction when you're in the middle of the junction and two of the directions of traffic have a red light against them so she's talking pure pony imo. Stay behind the white line?...wtf

Trampas

Going by the Garda and some here believe you’ve to wait behind the white line while it is green and way is clear. The OP could be there for considerable amount of light changes before they could proceed.

markpb

Ecumenical question: what difference does a yellow box make to a junction anyway? I’ve always assumed that you’re not allowed to enter a junction if you can’t clear it immediately or when turning right. Does a yellow box just visually remind drivers of that?

martco

OP I've been in court a couple of times down the years, and DIY too, it's a risk but my logic is that if I'm in the wrong I'll accept it and move on...but if I'm correct no way in hell ever ever am I gonna roll over and take it so I challenge it!!

Guards and Traffic Wardens make errors...tiredness, inexperience who knows what but if you've done your research know your facts and can explain to a judge what has happened simple and straight they're not to be feared and will listen

the only bad thing apart from the bit of nervous stress is having to take time off work to do it

imho I think wait to see if a summons transpires and if it does take it on

Whocare

op is completely in right really is that simple . everyone knows went go enter the centre of the junction you're taking control of the junction even if light change your in control of the junction legally speak rules the road speaking .

micar

OP:

Walk down to the junction during the day and take a recording of how cars turning right deal with the junction.

I personally would have moved further out into the yellow box.

The Guard was totally wrong in what they said

innocent_lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838782#Comment_120838782

I had definitely entered yellow box, but as you said could have gone little bit further. But no way i was behind yellow box. There is no other way other drivers take turn on that junction. If you stay behind white you will be there whole day.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838306#Comment_120838306

You can appeal to the superintendent, I believe instructions are on the ticket, they can cancel it. You probably won't get one anyway

HazeDoll

My dashcam lens distorts distances close to the car. I assumed watching the video that while it looked that there were acres of yellow box ahead of the car, it might not actually be the case.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120838782#Comment_120838782

Gumbo

OP, you are going to be in courts talking to a judge that will not be aware of the junction or it’s sequence and will only have the word of the guard.

If you do get a court date, everything discussed here in print in a kinda report set up. Google map photos, stills from the dash cam showing green light. Have it all laid out in order for a Judge to follow.

Explain how you were in the right, and back it up using the posted images of the rules of the roads.

I’ve been in this situation before for different technical explanations and the judge will not be an expert on what your arguing against.

Treat it as if your explaining it to a Child how you were right.

Don’t make it too long that the judge gets bored reading it, couple of pages is more than enough. Have some spare copies in case he/she wants to review it and defer the case.

Also, if you have your explanation laid out and then the Garda doesn’t appear to explain her case, then you’ll get it striked out.

SweetCaliber

The irony of this is the guards who were behind the OP proceeded to break the red light and turn right after the OP.... for doing nothing wrong 🙃 (yes yes I know they can)

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839152#Comment_120839152

For this to be proper boards motors thread someone needs to break out the crayon's and justify the dashcam distortion 🤣

I wonder would a court accept doodles on screenshots as evidence?

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120833578#Comment_120833578

you did not stop at the line, you progressed and stopped at the advance bike box

Ronney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840083#Comment_120840083

Think Ted1 has a point here, looking at the google maps pic you might have actually broken a light in the first 10 seconds of your video.

OP Which line below did you originally stop at?

I dont think this is why the guard pulled you over as they should have done so before you took the turn if that was the case.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840083#Comment_120840083

Annoying and dangerous at it is, there isn’t a guard in the country who would bother enforcing it.

It’s the pause on the green light, before proceeding on Orange through red that caused this situation to arise. But this like many junctions are absolutely terrible and badly planned light sequences etc making it very difficult to be compliant without waiting for tons of light changes.

EDIT - Wrong thread!!

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120839796#Comment_120839796

Which is why some cyclist close pass videos are absolute nonsense, particularly with the likes of a GoPro in SuperView mode. Things at the edge of the FOV (which generally further away from the camera) are magnified by the distortion correction algorithm to look in proportion, but the scale is way off. As you move across the FOV from left to right, something at a 1M distance looks large, small, and large again.

That said, the OP clearly passed the Advanced stop line which I guess counts as breaking the light.

The position of the induction loop (1) in the ground suggests that the traffic engineers have designed the light sequence to give a green arrow if traffic was waiting in the right lane. But OP's position lower red (2), didn't activate this.

But there is also a second induction loop (3) which may also force a green arrow, if someone in the OP's position (4) is causing the car behind (3) to be blocking the pedestrian crossing.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840650#Comment_120840650

If a driver is sitting in position 4, any driver behind them must wait at position 1. It’s sloppy like that which driving that causes a chain of drivers to keep going after the light changes to red.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840765#Comment_120840765

I know. They should, wait yes, and in could be argued that granting a green light to someone who has just blocked a pedestrian crossing encourages others to do the same on a larger scale.

But on balance, it's better to the let the driver through and create a clear path for pedestrians.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120840765#Comment_120840765

There is no rule to stop more than one right turning car entering a yellow box. The way it was taught to me was that so long as the exit road is a clear it's reasonable for 2 cars to be waiting in the box to turn.

innocent_lover

According to the video i posted, Garda argument is there is no box on intersection so I should not proceed to intersection. You can herad her saying its yellow box so I shouldn’t enter this box. Please listen to video 2. I was in correct position to make turn(according to how my actual turn in video 3). You can see clear right turn as i am not trying to oversteer or correct my position.

you can hear her saying it was red when i turned and she is correct but how i was taught that i am suppose to complete my turn.

the 12 th man

Adding to the confusion is that there's a filter light for a right turn at that juction which is not operational which would have sorted everything out.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842134#Comment_120842134

That doesn't change anything legally though. The OP was correct from my understanding.

I'd guess that the guards were chatting in the car and got the impression that the OP did something wrong but didn't fully see it happening. That would explain the initial confusion about what the offense was and why she changed tact from an illegal right turn to whatever she decided on after that.

artanevilla

Add me to the OP is in the right column please.

Cleared the light when it was green. Tick

Entered a yellow box (if he even entered it, either way his road positioning was relatively correct for a right turn at that junction) when turning right at a junction not blocking oncoming traffic. Tick.

Completed the turn when safe to do so. Tick.

The only drivers in the wrong here are the last two oncoming cars who proceeded through an orange and red light (assuming the sequence matched the OP side), three cars in total did but I'd give the benefit of doubt to the first guy, he may not have been able to stop safely. Not only did they break a red (the last one in particular) they delayed the OP in clearing the junction safely.