Firearms Certificate Waiting Times Survey

otmmyboy2

Howdy folks,

The goal of this is to get a broader picture of the state of firearms licencing in Ireland, in particular the rather disparate waiting times between districts.

Below is a link to the survey, completely anonymous, no personal details like emails or contact numbers are asked for.

As the results come in I'll stick up statistics drawn from them(ie best county for licencing, average times for renewals by county, etc).

Please feel free to share amongst licence holders, on social media shooting groups, etc. The more responses the better the statistics will be! 😁

https://forms.gle/xpjPB1gfKu8evS9KA

EDIT - based on some good feedback the survey has been slightly tweaked to add substitutions, and also changed to a Google Form to facilitate more questions(and responses) than surveymonkey allows. Anyone who already answered I've imported your answers already so no need to re-do the survey 😁

Google Forms will show your gmail address when you load the form, if you are logged into your Google account, but that is solely to save your progress if you leave and return, it is not recorded in the survey.

freddieot

A great idea. One point. With renewals they should send the renewal form out before the cert is expired. Therefore the application goes in long before the current cert expiry date.

Foe example if I'm waiting 2months that could be perfectly legitimate as they cannot issue, or should not issue a renewal until the old cert is almost expired. There is no allowance for this factor and it may skew the results.

tonysopprano

Should also allow comments not just numbers eg my last restricted application was 2007 and times were different then

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820127#Comment_120820127

Agree wholeheartedly!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820138#Comment_120820138

Unfortunately with an unpaid survey the responses and questions are limited, but feel free to stick extra stuff like that into the comments at the end.

Gumbo

Done.

Great idea.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820443#Comment_120820443

Cheers Gumbo, a bit of crowdsourced data not coming from AGS/DoJ, for shooters and by shooters 😁

JP22

Not raining on the party here but it would have been better to ask "how many days" instead of months as some lads here (myself included) have received subs in a few weeks. One member here got a sub in under a week.

Survey completed.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820758#Comment_120820758

A fair point but a balance had to be struck between days vs months.

It does allow decimals, so 2 weeks being 0.5 of a month seemed like a reasonable compromise, especially for the poor folks like me who have waited up to 9 months (longest, so far) and working out the days from that would be somewhat taxing on the fly ;-)

Edited the top description to better reflect the decimalisation of the numerical answers though, should have made that clearer from the get go.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820758#Comment_120820758

Yes actually.

I got my recent pistol in 26 days. I just said 1.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820839#Comment_120820839

Christ, my last pistol was 4 months :-P

And it was a renewal, no changes whatsoever.

Looking for a housemate? 😁

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820843#Comment_120820843

Feck, my very first rifle application took 44 days or so. documented on here too. And I lodged that on Christmas Eve and it sat there for near 4 weeks before it went to the FO in another station. (Both north Dublin) but the FO is based in blanchardstown and deals with blanch, finglas, Cabra and coolock I believe.

Pistol lodged on 26th May this year (first pistol) and got S and 1000 rounds on licence 😁

Now im Trying to decide if 223 or 308 should be next so we can try get into a bit of longer range

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820851#Comment_120820851

Never, ever, move! 😁

My average at this stage sits around 3.5 to 4 months, but it'd be a rare time I would get something back within 8 weeks.

Bar the acknowledgement letter that is 🙄

I will say my district is quite decent for what they licence, and ammo limits, etc, it's just the crazy long waiting times that are the killer.

freddieot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820865#Comment_120820865

Dead right, stay in that district.

My average wait over the years has varied between 4 weeks and 4 months. The local guys are very sound, my last new rifle app only took 6 weeks, which is not too bad. The only problem is that every few years the Super moves on. It's a big station. That means it's the luck of the draw again and again. My point, staying put does not always work. You could have a reasonable, logical thinking Super for years who treats you like a law abiding citizen but they can replace them with a diva at the drop of a hat.

I know that in small stations the same FO and then Supercould be there for decades. They also retire eventually of course.

That's why it's the policy and implementation that needs to change and be not only fair but also consistent, everywhere. If only there was some sort of Committee appointed to look into that........

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120821136#Comment_120821136

My only worry on that front would be whether that nationwide standardisation would then err on the diva side or the reasonable.

Could go either way.

otmmyboy2

Interesting stuff so far!

Satisfaction with firearms licencing for respondent's districts is(0 - Not at all satisfied and 10 - Couldn't be more satisfied):

40% rated their district between 0 and 2,

25% rated their district at 5 (neither satisfied nor dissatisfied)

35% rated their district at 6-10!

Also somewhat worryingly 40% of respondents have had applications/renewals/substitutions go "missing"!

At even a middling level fine(given the serious risk to the subjects of the lost paperwork considering the content of the forms) all those GDPR violations that would eat up the station budget a smidge!

JP22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120820839#Comment_120820839

Super result for a pistol although firearm category shouldn’t dictate the issue time.

My last was 22RF for 22RF sub, 16 days.

Previous to that was 22RF for 12g O/U sub, 19 days over Xmas/New-year.

(note – some districts will only do a sub like for like on cal, others use their brains and are more obliging, TBTG).

Previous subs were 12g for 12g, most all were about 7 weeks.

Most I ever waited was my initial app (40+ yrs ago – green license era) think it was about 9/10 weeks for my first 12g S/S.

Doesn’t count in real life but my best ever was many many years ago, already had a 12g, went to Athy, bought a new (second firearm) 12G, home, lunch, dropped into station with paperwork, Stn Sgt says, have you got your license on you?. Yes says I, handed it over, it was amended & stamped there and then with new details, back to Athy (RFD was surprised) and home with new 12g.

Alas, the days of old and common sense are long gone.

Grizzly 45

Done.Pretty happy with the service.They keep it all within the 90 day limit.But then again ,I kinda have have history with my local division so that we all know where we stand with each other.

freddieot

Done. Also mostly happy with the local situation.

otmmyboy2

UPDATE -

Respondents from 18 counties have given their feedback so far, with Dublin leading the pack in terms of responses with Kildare and Cork tied for 2nd place and Wicklow in 3rd.

Just under half of non restricted applications are processed within the 3 month window, with the remainder(over half) being processed after the legal maximum time limit.

For restricted applications the wait soars up to 66% after the 3 month window.

Renewals sit at just under the 2 month mark on average for non-restricteds and just under the 5 month mark for restricteds

A very concerning third of applications/renewals/substitutions have been lost by AGS!

And finally for this update - over 43% of respondents are unsatisfied with their district's handling of licencing.

Not a surprise really given the stats so far.

Thanks so much to everyone who has responded so far, and anyone considering responding please do, the more data from our side the better! 😁

Grizzly 45

A very concerning third of applications/renewals/substitutions have been lost by AGS!

That alone is enough of a concern to involve the data protection commissioner to investigate AGS for this continuous problem of loss of extremely confidential paperwork.

freddieot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120967941#Comment_120967941

Very good point Grizz, especially in light of what is happening North of the border. Can it be assumed that AGS is better run ? Sadly, while many individual members are dedicated, the organisation, especially at higher level, seems stuck with 80s or even 70s attitudes to procedures. In other words, they don't make mistakes and if they do what about it !

I also still remember my renewal notices coming in envelopes with if undelivered, please return to Firearms Section, in the top corner. Overall, they do not inspire confidence that or data as firearms owners is handled with enough care.

Details would be needed though for those cases of lost data. From that, a submission to the DP Commissioner, whom from previous experience, seems fairly dedicated regardless of who or what is involved.

CharlieR

What are the length of time if submitting for a change of rifle, same caliber and still bolt action?

Grizzly 45

Just a little point of interest. A survey conducted by one of Ireland's larger[est] gun dealers on the time frame over the last decade from someone coming into their shop and putting down a deposit on their chosen gun and until that gun leaves the shop on production of the license is on average 600 days! The majority of that time delay is caused by AGS decision-making and administrative processes,or" Loss of applications". Let that sink in for a moment.

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192313#Comment_121192313

For a non restricted substitution the average is ~2.6 months, based on the responses currently available.

CharlieR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121194310#Comment_121194310

That's abysmal but at least its winter and the range won't be open that much.

alex90

My local sergeant is in the process retiring and I cannot contact him, I've left the form in the station in the hope that he sees it before retiring and I've to wait until a new sergeant in charge of fca forms is appointed. Very frustrating

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195029#Comment_121195029

It is rather dire alright. The more info comes in from folks completing the survey the worse the figures get.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195065#Comment_121195065

Not massively surprising tbh, my FO seems to only work ~2 days per week, and for those he is extremely hard to get hold of.

JP22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195065#Comment_121195065

All I can suggest is, If its a sub-station, submit your docs to the main station covering your area.

CharlieR

I submitted my 2nd application last week so hoping it will be here in the new year

tikka646

I had a shotgun licence granted in 3 1/2 weeks over the summer so you never know. Not my first licence.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121199671#Comment_121199671

Which they promptly sent back to the substation as it hadn't come up thru the chain and protocol and hadn't been signed off by the local FAO. From experience.