Ladies footballers and camogie will play 'under protest' over lack of progress on welfare

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120740411#Comment_120740411

Are you assuming that what the female players want is the same funding as the Dublin footballers?

greenspurs

Whats the problem with the GAA having to give other GAA organisations some of the massive amounts of money it makes from members, and the paying public?

Why are some on here a bit obsessed with money?

Its about gaining a few more of the luxuries thats afforded to male gaa players too.

All the gear, physios, facilities , and career opportunities that come with 'playing for the county' ....

Women go to watch hurling and mens GF so they contribute that way by paying for expensive tickets throughout the season?

And its not all about county players either, Club players can be treated less favourably than their male counterparts also by Gaa clubs, and by their own county boards.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120741076#Comment_120741076

I would agree with that!

44 players on an U14 gf development army squad !

2 teams of 25 for Leinster U14 'blitz' !!!!

A Minor A & B team combined when it gets to the All Ireland series (no B teams in it) so 33 on the A panel !?

Its a bit mad..

Jersies and medals for all at this stage .... in the name of 'inclusivity'/ keeping them involved ......

1373

Agree with some of what you say ,but as for the money side of things, you seem to have a price on everything and a value on nothing

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120741906#Comment_120741906

What ye don't seem to get is that the Elite senior championships hoover up the bulk of commercial revenue for Gaelic games. There is then a small pie left for everyone else. There are not limitless commercial opportunities available to generate the funds.

And rightly or wrongly in the public's mind there is no difference between GAA, LGFA and Camogie associations, and any attempts for fundraising are often met with "sure the grab all association are loaded".

Currently the Elite senior championships largely fund the entire mens inter county system, elite or not. What this revenue should do is contribute to all. In a professional sports environment a large portion of revenue would go to those who generate that revenue, the players. However its not professional so the revenue should be used to create equity - eg. equality of opportunity, a minimum level of supports to enable the elite of both sexes participate in elite sport. If the Meath ladies then for example, were then able to draw in a JP McManus figure to bring them to Dublin mens levels of funding fair play to them. They are not asking or expecting Elite mens intercounty levels of funding however, just a minimum standard. For context the standard for the current female All Ireland champions is players who were on the squad last year having to use the same training gear, not knowing from week to week where you are going to train, waiting weeks to get scans on injuries or having to get them themselves, paying for physio out of their own pocket etc..

greenspurs

https://www.gaa.ie/news/gaa-report-healthy-financial-year/#:~:text=GAA%20central%20council%20gate%20receipts,were%20received%20during%20the%20year.

Youd imagine theres plenty there to keep each code sorted sufficiently (if its only money you wanna talk about!)

But , it has a lot to do with administration too.

Who would organise an ALL star trip that comes back a week before the championship starts !

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41075975.html

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120742938#Comment_120742938

I'm not assuming anything. That's the second time you've put words in my mouth, and been incorrect both times.

I'm inferring, based on the information available to me, that the players in both ladies' football and camogie, are expecting a base level of service that is above and beyond what their respective organisations are willing/able to provide. If they cannot provide it for their players, they must get the financial backing from the GAA. It is a bit cheeky for these organisations to go cap-in-hand to the GAA asking them for a few quid, when the whole ethos around your organisation in the first place is that you don't need the GAA, you're big enough and bold enough to do things on your own.

Which is what I first posted in this thread.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743481#Comment_120743481

Did you happen to see the question mark at the end of the sentence you quoted?

And on the rest - all organisations have already entered the integration process, acknowledging that they are better off as one, making your whole sentence below irrelevant.

It is a bit cheeky for these organisations to go cap-in-hand to the GAA asking them for a few quid, when the whole ethos around your organisation in the first place is that you don't need the GAA, you're big enough and bold enough to do things on your own.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743505#Comment_120743505

I did.

Did you happen to see the first four words of my last post where I answered your question?

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120742943#Comment_120742943

There's no problem giving other GAA organisations some of the money. The issue if that the Camogie Association and LFGA aren't GAA organisations at the moment.

The GAA have very strict criteria for clubs to meet before they are given money. How is it fair to those clubs if money is given to different organisations over them, over which the GAA has no oversight.

Merge the organisations and then split the money.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743773#Comment_120743773

Oh i understand that...

But im sure the GAA are thinking to themselves 'the state of these 2 , and they are trying to get into our 'well/better' run organisation...'

Im sure they are hesitant about it, and with good cause also.

3 presidents? 3 Treasurers 3 Secretary's ? I doubt it, so who is going to/want to miss out ??

Im sure there will be a lot of 'Assistant' roles made....

Its a very intricate, and delicate process i would imagine.

The GAA has more to lose, whilst the other 2 have a lot to gain.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743812#Comment_120743812

tThe next election for GAA president is at congress in 2024. Ensure the merger is complete before then and elect one president. Ill admit i don't know when the camogie and LFGA president is elected.

The GAA have been open to a merger as far as i know but the LFGA refused about 6 years ago.

Whatever about them not wanting to be under the GAA umbrella, why are the camogie and LFGA different associations?

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743863#Comment_120743863

"Whatever about them not wanting to be under the GAA umbrella, why are the camogie and LFGA different associations?"

Not sure what you mean- because they are totally different sports ?

Or different Associations from the male equivalent? - 🤔

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120743896#Comment_120743896

i mean in the mens version hurling and football are both under the same umbrella as the GAA. This makes sense as they use the same facilities in a lot of cases.

This was the system in place when the womens associations started. Why did they go with a camogie association and a football association instead of under the one umbrella?

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744030#Comment_120744030

Not sure...

Did they want to go separate under their own initiative ?

Or were they not 'allowed'? - Camogie in 1904 (?) LGF in 1970 ish ? Shur 'times were different' 🙂

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120742943#Comment_120742943

It's a pity they wouldn't go and support their fellow ladies and give them a boost of much needed funds.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744114#Comment_120744114

It should not need to be pointed out again but the Mayo Hurlers or Waterford Footballers hardly generate much revenue but there is no problem in subsidising them to a minimum standard.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744114#Comment_120744114

Sorry.....

Whos "they" ??

crusd

I dont get the inability some have to understand the concept of the Elite subsidising the whole. Its what the GAA has been. This coupled with the fact that the organisations have voted and committed to integration means setting out a framework for how this might work is not an outrageous ask.

evolvingtipperary101

There can't be any focus on money here. Money has to be provided but it's more of a symbol of equality.

This is a whole gender feeling underappreciated and unheard.

The GAA is already behind on fulfilling quotas in relation to women representation at most levels.

The State of Play GPA report, which surveyed the entire senior inter-county playing population between the LGFA and the Camogie Association (1,600 players) shows:

9.5% – The paltry percentage of female players that receive travel expenses from their county board. Of the 9.5 percent, six percent received less than 20 cent per mile, with 3 percent getting between 20 and 40 cent. Male inter-county players receive 70 cent per mile up to 7,000 miles, when it drops off to 40 cent per mile. (45p in the north, with increased nutrition allowances). A green rate of €1 per mile is available when two or more players car pool, up to 6,000 miles and drops to 60 cent thereafter.

The report also revealed that 13 percent of female inter-county players regularly miss training due to the costs involved - and that figure doesn’t include players who opt out for financial reasons.

4,546 – The average amount of miles covered by female players for inter-county activity in 2022

79% – The percentage of female players that DO NOT have regular access to a team doctor.

71% – The percentage of female players that DO NOT have full access to suitable pitches.

36% – The percentage of female players that DO NOT have full access to a physio or strength and conditioning.

5% – The percentage of female players who have suffered an ACL injury (but there's also a lot of instances of many players getting knee scrape operations, ankle, and other joint ops and having to pay themselves and maybe later getting 50% back if anything).

There's cases of buying their own gear with the county crests on them.

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744131#Comment_120744131

The organisation they play for makes enough yoyos to cover the likes off them.

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744152#Comment_120744152

The women off ireland.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744231#Comment_120744231

You talk about inability, but quite frankly, the entire integration process is being held up by the inability or else stark refusal of people like yourself to accept certain facts or considerations, and bring proposals on how to address them.

All three Associations support the principle of integration, but there are many sticking points to be overcome before it can happen, and chief amongst them are financial ones.

Put simply, integration won't happen until both the Camogie Association and LFGA take far greater financial responsibility than they currently do.

There's a framework being developed all right, but as it stands, Camogie and LGFA between them haven't brought a single proposal as to how to add more money to the pot. Not one. They continue simply to live in hope of getting a share of what's currently the GAA income.

So as already stated, if more funding is to be provided to women's inter-county teams, this means the GAA either having to slash the funding available to men's teams, or else taking the money from somewhere else, such as the budget for the sort of coaching and facilities that benefit all players rather than just the elite inter-county ones.

Neither of those are particularly palatable, for obvious reasons.

Are you starting to understand now, and if you really do want full integration sooner rather than later, what do you think the Camogie Association and LGFA can do to help bring it about?

By the way, still curious about the real situation with your local hurling/camogie clubs, but you seem to have chosen to ignore those questions completely.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120744231#Comment_120744231

I thought these ladies WERE the elite, no? Shouldn't they be subsidising the rest of the ladies' teams, using your analogy? Why would they need to be subsidised if they're the elite?

Also, "setting out the framework" is for the respective organisations to sort out between themselves. The players/members of the organisations don't get to dictate the terms. The LGFA and the camogie heads can barter and negotiate the terms and put it to the members to vote on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120742943#Comment_120742943

"Why are some obsessed with the money"...........The whole point of this argument stems from money. The ladies' teams haven't got the funding for proper transport, facilities, equipment etc as you'd expect for top level teams. This is because they haven't got the funds to do so, and are looking to integrate with the GAA so that they will have access to those funds (which are currently GAA funds). If they HAD the money, would they be looking to integrate, do you reckon? Cos I sure as **** don't.

You cannot have this discussion without reference to the finances involved, it's literally the entire reason for the integration happening, is it not?

joebloggs32

If the GAA start subsidising the ladies inter county teams before integration happens then I suspect the motivation to integrate may be somewhat reduced in the LGFA and Camogie Association.

celt262

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120751275#Comment_120751275

That would suit them alright to have a laying hen.

Lo d

Lots of strong opinions here but I’m not sure they are all so accurate.

My local club clearly treat boys and girls so differently. They also treat the camogie/hurling teams inferior to the football. So a young girls camogie team hasn’t a chance of a good pitch/time slot. In fact the slots and times are being enforced by the Football heads, refusing to allow camogie on certain days. Including walking down the pitches to argue when they seen young girls dual training on a Saturday as this is only a football day….

it doesn’t seem to matter about the success of our county team, I’ve spoke to county players and they don’t even have a set place to train, sometimes no access to showers. But the local football men’s team are guaranteed their pitch, showers and a warm meal after training on a weekly basis.

It should be remembered that local clubs earn a lot of money from membership that is from female players along with male so the attitude needs to change from the top to filter down.

I dont think any of the girls are looking for the same money the Dublin men get, or the same guaranteed jobs. But a little bit of equality….. it’s 2023, change needs to come from the top. And they’ve already agreed to integrate, so whether they want to or not changes need to be implemented asap.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120757266#Comment_120757266

I think you're conflating two separate considerations: access to facilities at a local level, and funding for inter-county teams.

On the first, as mainly a hurling man myself, I'd have concerns about how hurling/camogie is treated by your club. But fact of the matter is that some clubs just do have distinct preferences for one over the other. I know of many other clubs where hurling hardly gets a look-in either, but I also know of many where football is only ever an afterthought. Unfortunate, but that's the way it is in such places.

On other points...not sure so sure all of yours are accurate either, and in fact, I'm 100% sure that one of them is inaccurate.

Firstly, does your club's football team really get warm meals after training on a weekly basis? Not saying it doesn't happen, but it would be highly unusual at club level. Best our lads (hurling or football) get is a few sandwiches if we've hosted a practice match and the other club has come a long distance to play (usually from some other county).

If you're in the habit of throwing out hot dinners to lads just after training at least once a week, you must be a very big and financially well-off club altogether. Fair play to you.

Anyway, the one that simply can't be accurate...your claim that "local clubs earn a lot of money from membership that is from female players along with male".

Not a single GAA club in the country receives even a cent in player membership from females. How could they, when females don't actually play any sport that's governed by the GAA?

And likewise, not a single camogie or ladies football club gets even a single cent in player membership from male players.

Lo d

On the local club points, the senior football men’s team get a delivery of a hot meal once a week. And ask parents/club volunteers to dish up and clean up for them. This is true and it’s certainly not a rich club.

The senior hurling manager resigned as the senior football manager was allowed to give his players an ultimatum of not playing anymore if they committed to any other team whether it be hurling or swimming. So a large number of the hurling players dropped out not wanting the conflict.

In terms of membership I mean I pay family membership of 300 a year and have 2 young girls playing at underage. My club gets their membership and uses it as it sees fit. And clearly to everyone involved they prioritise the men’s/boys teams. Insurance etc is the same for everyone but the rest ?

my issue is more with the LGFA than the GAA as they are useless and are not strong enough at defending their own members interests. The LGFA are the ones in our club arguing and fighting whereas camogie are willing to work together to find solutions.

I hope that explains my opinions better.

Uncle Pierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120765634#Comment_120765634

Thanks. Still unusual for club players to regularly get a hot meal after training, but if your club manages it, then fair play. I'd say our lads would love the same!

Again speaking as mainly a hurling man myself, I'd be concerned about that other situation in your club, and I'd consider your football manager as being highly unreasonable. That sort of thing would never be tolerated at a club here in Wexford, where more than 90% of club players play both codes. Even if an individual club has a strong preference for one code over the other, or is one of the small number of single-code clubs we have, it doesn't try to stop them playing the other one altogether.

On the family membership thing, are you sure the GAA club keeps the portion of it that's meant to cover the girls? As in, the camogie and LGFA clubs don't actually get membership fees for those girls?

I ask because my club operates something similar with a membership option that has a number of benefits including underage membership for all children in a family up to age 18 (coincidentally, also for €300). Underage membership here is €40 for GAA, €20 for camogie, and €20 for LGFA. If a family with girls playing underage happens to take the €300 option, the GAA passes on the girls' portion of that money to the camogie and LGFA clubs.

So for example, if a family with three boys takes that option, the GAA club gets and keeps €300. But if that family has just one boy and two girls, while the GAA club still gets €300 initially, it only keeps €220 and passes over the other €80. Are you sure something similar doesn't operate in your own place?