The Ashes 2023

wassie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120886369#Comment_120886369

You raise a lot of pretty valid points, especially the one on the captaincy. Thats the mentality the Aussies had up until and including the Steve Smith era which ended badly as we all know.

Its well documented that when head coach Justin Langer came in afterwards to rebuild the culture, he was eventually forced out because of his intense coaching style and ingrained belief that Australian cricket teams must play hard and win at all costs and that they weren’t in the business of making friends. Cummins didn’t see it that way and Langer never got a farewell Ashes Tour.

wassie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120883894#Comment_120883894

There's a fairly large logistical excerize involved in holding a 5 day test match, including having staff availability (security, hospitality, groundkeepers, player & visitor management etc) which would all add to additional costs. Effectively you would need to have staff also available on standby. Also as mentioned, the broadcasting of the game might be challenging also. Not saying it cant be done, but the posibility that hours may be extended comes with challenges.

I have had a laugh over the last 2 days with the reaction in the press and social media to extended rain delays. If the scoreboard was reversed I don't think the reaction would be anywhere near this.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120886369#Comment_120886369

Stokes has made mistakes in this series, and maybe it was a mistake not to declare earlier on Friday, but there's no way anyone could say that affected the result of this game.

dohboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120886369#Comment_120886369

Daft to blame it on Stokes/McCullum. Australia don't just roll over because they were put in ten or 15 overs earlier. It was always going to be incredibly hard to force a result within three days.

Strumms

Not daft. They were in possession of a weather forecast.

nobody suggested Australia would ‘roll over’.. that’s disingenuous on your part….but simple logic.. the more you bowl at them the more chance you have and the quicker you can get them out.

nothing to be gained by scoring almost 600 runs……

taking time out of the game, facilitating the scoring of a hundred..all the other stuff….

they simply had to roll the dice. Risk loosing the test. Because a draw sees Australia go back with the Ashes…so a loss is of no consequence to England, it’s the same as drawing. They needed to do everything to win, forget bazball, play smart ball , but they didn’t…

they only result that was any use to England was a win… they did themselves no favours with their decision making.

loyalty to results and winning… smart ball trumps bazball

kowloonkev

But ultimately declaring earlier wouldn't have saved any time.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120886773#Comment_120886773

Inclined to agree, Eng could have maximised their chances of a win that bit more and still been able to fall back on a draw.

It was very strange to see Bairstow being allowed to bat on and bash the ball about, looked like it was to stick a finger up to the Aussies. But they weren't caring and had the last laugh when he got stuck on 99 after all!!

But regardless if Eng do manage to win at the Oval, no doubt but that they'll claim they rightfully won overall etc etc.

Burkie1203

No way there will be play today. Outfield is waterlogged

Dave0301

A lot of this is narrative from the English media. You can be certain that if it was the other way around that the English fans would be absolutely revelling in it.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120886810#Comment_120886810

No, but if aus were 113/6 yesterday instead of 113/4 and England picked up an early wicket they might have wrapped it up in the 30 overs played

Any way,Piers Morgan is triggered so fair play to the rain......

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120886954#Comment_120886954

But they wouldn't have been 113. They'd have been 250/6 or something. We can't predict what might have happened when we have what actually happened available

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120887002#Comment_120887002

250? In an extra 5-10 overs I doubt it. They may have been 150/6 but still 50 + behind.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120886924#Comment_120886924

I know it's stupid really , don't go down 2 nil in a test series in England

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120887013#Comment_120887013

They are currently 214/5 so it's fairly reasonable to predict they would reach 250/6. Not on Friday but at some stage yesterday.

I don't get the logic that if England had declared earlier the Australian innings would have gone differently. We may as well use the evidence of what actually happened.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120887157#Comment_120887157

Aus ended day 3 on 113/4

If England declared with a lead of 210 instead of waiting for it to get to 261 they might have had 8-10 extra overs bowling on Friday evening. Nip out 2 more Wickets for 30 more runs and instead of bowling at Marsh and Marnus yesterday they are bowling at Marsh/Marnus and Carey. One wicket and they are into the bowlers.

Given the weather forecast, it was a poor call IMO especially when they declared on day 1 at edgebaston for 380/8

Strumms

Exactly, Stokes just didn’t give himself or his team a chance. How he didn’t see that he and England had quite simply to roll the dice, with that weather and the match / series situation, is amazingly nuts.

wassie

Bring on the final test. Still a lot to play for on both sides.

MFPM

Disappointing not to get play but Australia will be happy to retain the Ashes however they will want to win at the Oval, none of them have won a series in England and many of them - Smith,Warner, Starc, Cummins won't be back in 4 years.

y0ssar1an22

ashes retained by the aussies. hopefully they can go on and win 3-1

pavb2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120887015#Comment_120887015

Yes that’s what I think, Australia retained the Ashes because they put themselves in a strong position before this game

dohboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120886773#Comment_120886773

Batting on and piling on the lead has benefits. Scoreboard pressure is a thing. Often a team will come out behind by a huge amount and simply crumble in the face of it. England went with that strategy. The general consensus was they would bat for a lead of 200, they kept going for a lead of 270-odd. That decision did not cost England this test.

Strumms

Scoreboard pressure is of no use with two teams sitting in the pavilion watching it chucking it down

Augme

There no doubting his individual brilliance and importance to the team but Stokes has been poor as a captain in this series. Really can't understand why they didn't declare much earlier.

Strumms

Maybe it’s arrogance. I’m not saying Stokes is an arrogant person per say but to rule out what’s in black and white in front of him…

Weather forecast, match situation, series situation and still come up with certain decisions, baffling…. He did always seem like an uber confidant individual but knowing your limitations both personally, of the team and what the circumstances of weather etc meant to the overall picture and still ignoring it….. could be borderline or actual arrogance as relates to himself and his team.

dohboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120887579#Comment_120887579

They got two hours yesterday that wasn't forecast and the Aussies batted very well. They could have had the same today. Losing the bones of two days to weather cost England this test, declaring an hour later than you think they should have did not.

You have an issue with Stokes's captaincy, fair enough, but to just dismiss how much him and McCullum have transformed Test cricket in the last 18 months is daft. It's been a really close series against the World Test Champions, that could have gone either way, and could still be shared.

Gillespy

Absolutely the right decision to bat on in the first innings. I could see the logic in questioning the declaration in Edgbaston. Root was motoring and it was still day one. But here it was obvious from the toss the game plan was to bat once to try to beat the bad weekend forecast. With the benefit of hindsight now to still think it was wrong is baffling.

Nothing more boring or annoying in cricket than declaration chat. It’s always wrong whatever they do. A lot of it is just be contrarian.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120887561#Comment_120887561

Declare with a lead of 200 and draw is worst case scenario

Declare with a lead of 271 and draw having

They were never going to lose. Another wicket or two on Friday might have given them a chance yesterday but losing the test was highly unlikely

dohboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120887839#Comment_120887839

Just because you are never going to lose a test doesn't mean it's a fait acomplit you're going to win it. Australia were under the pump when they had to bat again and did well both on Friday and yesterday.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120887663#Comment_120887663

it being shared is no use… as Australia retain the Ashes. that is why, Stokes needed to roll the dice, declare and not bat to score 592 runs…. DECLARE ! 🙂

transforming test cricket in the last 18 months ? And in your above quoted post you accused my contribution as being ‘daft’… Stokes is England captain just under 15 months, McCullum about the same, a couple of weeks difference in their appointments …. How has he ‘transformed test cricket’ ? They’ve changed the tactical manner as to how ‘England’ play test cricket from a mostly conservative laid back and reactive captain Roots tactics and had been credited for it. ‘Transformed test cricket’ ? They haven’t, sorry. 😉

it could have gone either way, but partly due to an overindulgence in conservative, crazy illogical tactics, it went the way of Australia who retained the Ashes…. That’s all the record shows… no bracketed ‘but but but’, no asterisk…. Ashes, retained by.. Australia…. And people looking through the records over time will see a team scoring 592 runs in an innings during a must win test that was impacted by mostly forecasted bad weather… Stokes / McCullum have to take the rap for that. a must win test with bad weather and almost 600 runs and leadership like… “ sure, let Jonny boy get his century “ with the clock and weather forecast by then potentially against them… nonsensical leadership…. 592 all out…. They deserve to miss out on the Ashes and they in part did it to themselves…. Australia must be pissing themselves.

one thing making mistakes on the field which they didn’t, they were mostly good, very good, but the leadership mistakes like that in the pavilion, wow.…. Stokes 32…experienced, McCullum a wealth of experience… but they couldn’t nail their tactics, let the side down literally.

Jack Daw

I can never understand why there isn't a reserve day for every single test match.Pure nonsense that a result is decided by the weather just makes a mockery of the sport in my opinion.Surely it wouldn't be that difficult to arrange.

No sympathy for England though they clearly batted for too long, should have aimed to declare when the lead was 150 and had 2.5 sessions to bowl at Australia on Friday.