DoneDeal Report - EV Average Prices

AMKC

The average cost is €64,000 yes that's right no kidding €64,000 big ones like Wow.

Surely with the likes of MG and BYD now in the market maybe it will come down to a more reasonable €40,000.

What do you think of this? It was on RTE News today.

eagerv

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058297649/so-according-to-new-analysis-the-average-cost-of-a-new-ev-in-ireland-is-wow-might-want-sit-down

Mainstream media and EVs normally has me looking for the off button...😉

ELM327

Probably that Geraldine reporter who likes to talk EVs but hasnt a clue what shes on about, either her or Dim Tim from the times.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632320#Comment_120632320

Actually she was on Ireland AM this morning on Virgin One talking about the BYD ATTO 3

Patrick2010

So what is the average?

elperello

This is the article in question based on Done Deal data.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/0523/1385022-new-electric-cars-13-more-expensive-than-last-year/

They certainly are expensive, I was looking at a Toyota Bz electric in a showroom last week and the sticker price was €56k.

It's not a big car.

Stevie2001

Get used too it, its hard to see how the can be made cheaply

Anyone got the BOM for a modern EV?

Ain't cheap to replace a simple engine and petrol tank

80kWh battery, high performance electric motor, inverter, controller, bms, dc charger ain't cheap, 15-20k alone to replace a basic engine and petrol tank imo

Was talking to Kia last week. A phev Sportage was coming in at 59k .

the_amazing_raisin

I wonder what filtering DoneDeal did to ensure the cars they used for averaging are actual cars for sale

I've seen a few ads that looked more like just advertising a particular model of car

If every VW garage advertised every ID.4 trim the average would probably fall in the mid €50k region, but the general consensus is that most of the models sold are the lower 3 trims which are sub €50k

Having said that, there have definitely been a lot of price increases in the past year across many models

Hopefully we're seeing the end of that, and there's more deals from garages now. Saw one dealership in Cork offering a €6,500 scrappage deal. Sell your current car privately, buy a banger for €500 and then claim the scrappage 😉

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632598#Comment_120632598

BYD are selling their Seagull model starting from 78,800 RMB (€10,360). It clearly doesn't cost as much as you think it does to electrify a car. Have you perhaps mistaken pricing for products which is based on what the market will pay versus cost to produce again.

You don't need high performance motors and large batteries to replace Polo's and Fiesta's, but as you are well aware the manufacturers don't currently want to sell cheap cars to skint customers.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058297649/so-according-to-new-analysis-the-average-cost-of-a-new-ev-in-ireland-is-wow-might-want-sit-down

Probably beefier Grant and VRT.

kippy

This is one of the biggest issues with electric cars. That, the charging infrastructure and the potential issues in the second hand market.

50k is an absolutely astronomical amount of money for the average Joe to consider.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632755#Comment_120632755

Why is selling expensive new cars to people who can afford them an issue? Today's buyers are funding the investments that will lead to tomorrow's electrified Polo equivalent.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632774#Comment_120632774

Because there simply won't be enough cars filtering through to the second hand market if the price point of new ones is as mental as they are. More importantly there are significant questions to answer around the performance and usefulness of a ten or fifteen year old electric car when it reaches that age. Namely cost of purchase, cost of ownership and useful range.

Fair pay to someone who can fund a 50 K car. But there aren't enough of them to impact on any future second hand market.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632598#Comment_120632598

The trouble is that so many buyers just can't afford to get used to it.

Those buying at €50-60k will want to recover a lot of equity when trading in.

Which will conflict with the interests of buyers further down the chain seeking to change to EVs.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058297649/so-according-to-new-analysis-the-average-cost-of-a-new-ev-in-ireland-is-wow-might-want-sit-down

That’s how averages work.

What’s the mean value?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632801#Comment_120632801

Why can’t that person buy one of the EV’s at €30k or €40k.

I think people are afraid to move on from badges. They have a golf or a Passat and want to stay with VW. This is where the likes of BYD should have cornered the market.

TheRiverman

The insane prices are a great way of encouraging people to change from petrol and diesel 🙄🙄🙄. The word scam comes to mind.

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632637#Comment_120632637

My old diesel Polo had 130bhp and could do 900km to a tank

Make that cheapily

Yeah you can make a crappy seagull for 10k, Dacia have that in Europe for similar price and it has 44bhp and 120km of range, evolution :)

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632954#Comment_120632954

What about the person that bought a Fabia for 20k new every year, which is a lovely car these days

Just suck it up and pay 30k or 40k? and compromise at the same time as that Renault Zoe barely does 300km on motorway, when a Fabia will do 800km to a tank

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633029#Comment_120633029

Nope. I’ve posted 100’s of times that EV’s need to break the €20k buyer. Until then they won’t be for the masses.

In other news, I had a Fabia VRs. It wouldn’t do 800km for me!

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633013#Comment_120633013

Why bother when I can instead sell high margin cars from the same factory. Your not a very desirable customer.

ELM327

It's the median, not the mean that should be used here.

You can pick up an EV today between 2k (used leaf) and 200k (new taycan turbo S with suggested extras), and everything in between.

Have you looked at what a non EV new car costs these days? In manufacturers that sell both - primarily the germans - you dont see much difference. Look at the price of a Q8 vs a Q8 etron new for instance. Or an I4 M50 vs an M440i with similar spec. You can even compare an ID3 with a similar golf.

New car buyers arent paying 5-20k for cars and havent for a long time. It's not 2010.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633013#Comment_120633013

A diesel polo? What a great driving experience, depending on the age that could have been bought new by a) someone who paid an upsell for diesel and b) have lovely paddy spec windy windows and lacking such options as cruise control.

But you're right, the frugal diesel polo owner doesnt have many options for a new EV these days without breaking the bank. You could get the EV equivalent from VW, for mid 20's, the E-Up.

Worth noting that my first car, a mk4 ford fiesta - in a similar class size to a polol, had about 400km range on a good day. Cars, especially superminis, having 500 plus km of range is only a 10-15 year old development, since the diesel supermini came into being due to taxation.

Red Silurian

For a fair comparison how does that compare to Petrol/Diesel costs.

It wouldn't surprise me if you can spend millions on high end petrol sports cars

Padraig Mor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634052#Comment_120634052

Exactly. My Model Y was €46.5k which sounds expensive until you look at the new ICE market in context - it's hard to avoid getting into the €40ks if you're after something half decent and roomy. Fancy a new Hyundai Tucson? It's gonna cost you €38k at the very minimum - lowest spec, no metallic. Want mid spec and automatic? You're immediately at Model Y price, without the full BEV advantages. Match the spec and you're well over Tesla price.

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633234#Comment_120633234

Exactly and more fool anyone paying and justifying those prices, I see it here it all the time, people defending those prices.

The amount of fools that can pay 50k for an Electric Renault Megane will dry up soon enough

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633039#Comment_120633039

The Fabia rs was an awesome machine, new a lad with an immaculate 05 black one that had been tuned to 180bhp or so and it was quick, loads of torque, good times

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634392#Comment_120634392

Model 3 especially for 40k is great value

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634064#Comment_120634064

Was actually a great car and fun to drive, got it mapped to 160bhp or so and with it's 1200kg weight, it could shift, could keep up with a mates 525D and spec inside was decent. Diesel were great those times, 535D's etc

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634456#Comment_120634456

Mine was Joe Power’d too 🤣🤣

Bought a phev this week second hand. Had 262km on the tank. It now says it will do 292km. I've used no fuel all week and the battery seems to be able to make additional petrol. 😄

Soarer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632621#Comment_120632621

Who was that dealer?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634489#Comment_120634489

Yes I had a couple of 535ds myself, am a diesel head outside of EVs, have a 1994 corona and 1998 peugeot 406 both d turbo in the shed.

But thats not the same as a diesel polo. VW spec in ireland was terrible. And also, compared to what you get in an EV, its not relevant. EVs tend to be more comparable to mid or top spec cars and there isnt one in the polo class really, the e-up I suppose.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634392#Comment_120634392

Was it €46,5k or for the sake of the article was it €46.5k + €5k Grant + €2.5k VRT

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634449#Comment_120634449

It's ok that you resent spending money on cars, however lot's of people don't mind and are willing to pay a bit extra for a nice place to be with the security of a dealer network for warranty services. I think the market is going to survive. The European manufacturers are letting the cheap Chinese manufacturers chase the dregs of the market whilst they focus on more profitable sales.

You seem to only care about hp, I'm guessing a battery on wheels would be all you need from an EV. Most new car buyers are more focused on interior instead.

DownByTheGarden

Whats worse than the sot of the cars are people shelling out that much who dont have home charging. I know a few who paid 50k+ for electric cars and then they complain when they see the price of charging them at public chargers.

One girl even decided to start charging it at her parents house while she was at work. USed to call in and say, can I charge the car and then get her dad to drive her to work and pick her up from work. They were paying about 60c a unit for the electricity she was using. Lasted about 2 bills and her Dad told her never to charge that car at his house again :)

quokula

I doubt there would be a huge difference between mean and median, unless there were a bunch of Rimacs being sold really stretching the average out.

However the source data is probably not very reliable. It's based on adverts on Donedeal and many of those are just a dealership listing a specific car model once as an all-encompassing ad. So if there's a 100k car and 40k car advertised then they average to 70k based purely on the number of ads, but that dealership might sell 10 of the 40k car for every single 100k car sold, yet Donedeal never see that in their data.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634064#Comment_120634064

Yes, for all those who think range anxiety is just a new EV thing, they've never experienced the joy of driving an old ICE showing empty. Coming home from Féile years ago in the Mark II, the needle hit rock bottom on the Tipp-Kilkenny border. Turtle mode before turtle mode was a thing, all the way back through the badlands. No satnav, I had to navigate cross country using GAA pitches as landmarks. No mobile phone, no credit card, no cash. If I ran out, I'd be relying on the goodwill of the natives to get me on my way again. That's if I could even communicate with them in the first place. Every time that 903cc engine missed, as it was prone to do, I thought the game was up. I didn't breathe easy until I crossed the bridge of Ross.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634841#Comment_120634841

Thats what I was getting at by suggesting median, the number of ads doesnt necessarily equate to sales numbers. A better exercise would have been to take SIMI sales data for 12 months and extrapolate the avg then

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632954#Comment_120632954

30 or 40K aren't insignificant numbers - particularily when range comes into it. Based on the figures I've seen it appears supply is an issue for cars in those price points also.

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634800#Comment_120634800

Yeah it's a big obstacle, especially in a housing crisis and a government are hell bent on importing the third world here, many young Irish people will never be able to afford one

A prerequisite of owning an EV, means you must own a property, that's a pretty big problem, compared to ICE and don't posters give me the public charging and ask your landlord bit spiel, we all know that's not ideal.

Agree with that dad too, if your not on night rate electricity and paying 40c+ for elec, it's probably cheaper to run an ICE

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634912#Comment_120634912

It's not even 30 or 40k either, thats cash price, how many can actually afford to pay, 30,40,60,80k in cash for a car, they'll all have loans for it and most are 6%+ apr these days

A 50k car at 6% apr, minus a small deposit of 10k is now a 56k car

Stevie2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634775#Comment_120634775

You might like to be robbed, but I want something to take me from A to B, that's all, I don't need my arse heated or something parking for me, can do that myself.

If I can buy a new Fabia for 20k, I'd like the same EV for a similar price with decent range 400-500km eg 70-80kWh battery and chargers to full in 30mins or so, not a Renault Zoe for 30k with 300km range with small 50kWh that takes an hour to charge

With the Chinese coming and Tesla really pushing prices, who knows it might come soon from them, but the traditional autogiants are way overpriced, VW, Hyundai etc, robbing people

tom1ie

Surely a good quality top spec second hand diesel (2015/2016) for about 10k cash makes more sense then spending 50k on a car with €700pm repayments on a loan?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635100#Comment_120635100

Sure, if you dont like new cars and are happy to cover out of warranty repairs yourself.

Alternatively instead of that 2016 diesel for 10k there was a 2017 Ioniq EV for 12k listed on donedeal recently, that would be my choice if looking for a cheao used car instead of paying 40-50k for a new car. But my last 3 EVs purchased were above 50k including a used model X so perhaps I'm not in that demographic any more. I used to be in the buying cheap (sub 1k) cars from auction, pre EV

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635014#Comment_120635014

I went looking at the Fabia prices because of your above post and found the official Fabia brochure.

https://www.skoda.ie/_doc/b606ed10-4f11-40b9-9670-3daee16ff65e

I'm not sure even where to begin with the picture. The picture has been mirrored, perhaps to fit the car pic nicely with the brochure design, but they never bothered to correct the reg plate. It is a Czech reg plate but the car is RHD? The photo has been taken by the sea, but the last time I drove through the Czech Republic, I don't recall seeing any such body of water. I can only hope the Fabias are built better than their brochures.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634775#Comment_120634775

Everyone is probably focused on different things - however as a parent with a number of young kids the look and feel of the interior is way down the list of what I need. I need something that is relatively cheap, reliable and relatively straightforward to run on an annual basis. Granted these requirements might change but personally for me to throw 50K at a car I would need to have the mortgage well paid off, the savings as topped up as they could be and the kids put through college.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635119#Comment_120635119

That was a pretty good price for a 2017 Ioniq however the main issue with that Ioniq is it is well out of warranty at that point. I'd surmise that the out of warranty repairs for an Ioniq have the potential to run into the many thousands of euro and would be much more difficult to get resolved relative to your traditional ICE (Appreciate ICE issues can be expensive also)

It's likely that you COULD still be driving the 2016 diesel in 10 years time after looking after it with regular services - could you say the same about the Ioniq? What will the battery be like in a decades time? What will the cost be to replace? These are essentialy unknowns.

If you are in a position to buy a brand new car every couple of years (as a minority of the population are) then these aren't considerations you'd make - which is fair enough.

It's not feasible currently that the practice of short lifespans on any product and/or the difficulty that can be had when repairing products will continue.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635014#Comment_120635014

In terms of new car sales you are now in the minority. Small hatchbacks are not what the market is asking for. Its crossovers primarily and that's what the OEM's are providing. 7/10 of the top 10 are CUV's.

The Yaris was the notable exception. You've to go down to number 18/19 to find Polo's and Focus's and sales are slipping sharply on those.

Ford are stopping production of Fiesta's entirely.

Thats the reality and it hasn't anything to do with BEV vs ICE. Its what the market is dictating.

Your thing is cheap and cheerful and you'll need to wait for todays EV's to come down to your budget as secondhand cars. I'd suggest there will "never" be a decent €20k BEV to be bought new. €30k maybe.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635202#Comment_120635202

Its the same risk with a 2016 diesel. Engine goes pop and you're down a few grand for a replacement. At least with the EV with the fuel being cheaper you could build up a buffer fund each month. However the Ioniq battery is loaded with cobalt so its up there with LFP in the least likely to fail group.