Do traditional hurling counties honestly want hurling to grow or stay as is?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184306#Comment_121184306

It is funny you say that because I went to Semple Stadium to see my first Munster Hurling match a number of years ago. Tipp v Cork just to see what this 'Munster Hurling' craic was about. Off I went with me Sambos, and me Dublin jersey on and all. (got a few looks). Around 2017 I would say.

Tipp were top dogs at the time. And Cork gave them a right rattle. They weren't supposed to. I don't even know who won in the end. But I remember it was up and down nearly non stop. But jayus I was afraid to mark score in the programme, for fear I would miss another two of them.

mitchelsontour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120710256#Comment_120710256

If I remember correctly Kerry were open to playing this years Munster final in Ennis but the Munster Council decided on limerick.

Probably would have gotten a bigger crowd in Ennis and definitely a better atmosphere.

Sometimes/most of the time, I cannot understand the thinking of the suits.

gormdubhgorm

It appears that that at least some in the GAA administration want to maintain the status quo power base, and sideline less traditional counties. Dumping them out of the Hurling League.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/1121/1417673-fermanagh-shocked-by-gaas-hurling-league-proposal/

castletownman

It's mad how hurling is regarded as almost this ancient art-form (ceremonial hurl wielded out for presidential visits) yet the game itself has gone so far removed from the romance that it's closer to the dreaded football. Never see any exciting ground hurling anymore because retention is king (John Fenton and Adrian Fenlon would be lost in today's version), and most attacking moves feature multiple hand-passing in the build-up. Seperately, long-range scores have become too frequent.

This stand by the Liam McCarthy counties is box ticking though, as it won't affect them in the slightest.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121413632#Comment_121413632

Yet many ''hurling people'' in the media will tell you there's nothing wrong with the game. In general top tier counties and players are very slow to change anything. You only have to see their rants about changing the colour of the ball.

Tombo2001

For me this debate is a bit redundant; because I really dont think it matters that much if traditional hurling counties want hurling to grow.

The hurling championship works for them. Clare, Tipp, Limerick, KK - they have a series of great matches every year, their fans are energised, making county team is a big deal, underage is humming along.

The fact is that championship is probably much better for the top hurling player than it is for the top footballer. How many close games do Dublin or Kerry play each year? 2 at best.

The only thing that matters is what people think in the peripheral counties - do the non-traditional hurling counties want hurling to grow, and, what are they going to do about it. Cause no one else will do it for them, nor should they be expected to.

Freneys Treasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121413632#Comment_121413632

It's a bit off topic, but we always hear "the game is evolving and that is good" but never any questioning about why exactly it is good or whether there can be too much evolution, even when the game is almost unrecognizable to what it was when the GAA was founded

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121436976#Comment_121436976

The non-traditional counties are going to need outside help though. In other words help from more traditional counties. Dublin hurling would never have progressed without former players/managers from traditional counties either playing for/or managing them.

bucketybuck

If the GAA wants to cast off the smaller hurling counties like Fermanagh, then I think Fermanagh players should listen to them. Tell them they can keep their stickball and pull out of the sport completely, concentrate on other sports that do actually want them around.

The likes of Fermanagh hurling should already be gone, it doesn't have the population to support multiple top tier county teams. But a core group of men and women kept hurling alive in the county for decades, travelling all over the north for club games and every year putting a team into the competitions they were allowed to.

Now the GAA makes it clear it would rather these teams just went away. Well **** them, let them have their closed shop. Just don't dare come whinging later down the line when your precious hurling is dying on its arse everywhere.

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121437503#Comment_121437503

I think the decision had much less to do with telling players from weaker counties to fu€k off and much more to do with money.

And that's the crux of this for me; decisions in the GAA are being governed by money, not the good of the games. The move to a semi-professional sport, and that's what the highest level of both codes effectively is now, was always going to see a cost-cutting exercise implemented somewhere, regardless of interest or game development,

And don't think something like this couldn't happen in football either. I can see why so many football counties are so dead against the removal of the provincial championships because they know without the provincials, they'd be tossed into lower league competitions similar to hurling, which might be more competitive and entertaining, but would see their concerns and influence dismissed by the money men. The only thing that has seen football escape the same potential gutting for money is safety in numbers.

It's just another example of how the GAA, and in particular the GPA, have prioritized money as they hold a Pro 14/Premier League image of themselves as ultimate sportsmen.

If the GAA really wanted to develop hurling, it would put a spending limit of €300k on county senior teams, allow expenses for only two training sessions a week, and use savings to develop participation in schools and develop county/provincial leagues during the first part of the year in developing counties. The fact that every county fields a hurling team and has clubs, and more importantly plenty of fans of hurling (even if they're never played it), shows at least there's an interest there. And if any county breaks the funding rules, kick them out of the championship for two years and drop them to the bottom rung of the ladder.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121451988#Comment_121451988

There should be a fund (specific for hurling) % of revenue of the traditional counties given to the ones that are struggling. Hell would freeze over before that happens, I think.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121437427#Comment_121437427

Dont really agree with this - the biggest differential is that clubs in Dublin commit fully to hurling at underage, that its coached from age 4 right up to age 18 on an even keel with football. That would be the case in most clubs in the county, there are a few football only clubs like Ballymun but equally there are a few hurling only clubs like Faughs or Setanta or Wild Geese. Thats what produces the players, and also what produces the coaches. The likes of Boden, Cuala, Kilmacud, Vincents, Lucan- they'd all be equally strong in football as hurling more or less.

Yes, Dublin might get in an outside lad to manage the county team, but he is going nowhere if the players arent coming through that system.

Also, thats the Dublin County Board going out and finding someone as opposed to 'traditional hurling counties helping out Dublin'. Wexford, Waterford and Galway do the same.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121456612#Comment_121456612

But I am talking about players as well Corcoran (Galway). Dwyer (Tipp) etc, then even further back you had Eamon Shiner Morrisey from the cats.

Obviously you had the successful minors coming through (winning Leinster a few years prior to 2011) but it never would have come together without the outside help. Culminating in a manager like Dalo to galvanise it, a fella with hurling pedigree who had been there and done it. That type of profile and nous is invaluable for a team without top tier hurling tradition.

--

Fair point on the DCB having to seek these lads out though.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466402#Comment_121466402

Yes, and much like Shane Walsh, there will be plenty of lads moving to Dublin anyway so it works for them. Not the case with Fermanagh or Sligo, (or not to the same extent).

Mad about baa baas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466402#Comment_121466402

Eamon morrissey and shiner brennan were both kilkenny hurlers that went on to play for Dublin..I might be wrong but I think they both won an all Ireland in 1992.

legendary.xix

The five divisions of 7 seems to be a good development. Division 1B will most likely see 3 McDonagh counties come up against 4 McCarthy Cup counties. It's important they get that opportunity and the Division 1B of 7 counties seems to be a fair solution.

2025 Predicted Division 1B:

Dublin

Wexford

Antrim

Westmeath

Offaly

Laois

Carlow

2026 Predicted Division 1B

Clare

Waterford

Antrim

Westmeath

Offaly

Kerry

Down

Dublin, Wexford, Clare and Waterford will not be pleased about 1B hurling but will be confident of a top 2 place for automatic promotion, and keeping their stay in 1B as brief as possible.

Galway and Limerick have previously win the All-Ireland after 1B hurling. The 2023 SFC winners won NFL Division 2 this year.

NJSC1980

Do non traditional hurling counties want hurling to grow? Are Liam McCarthy counties to blame for the number of hurling clubs fielded in non traditional counties? Look in particular at the number of under 20 hurling teams registered in 2020 - TEN counties registering either zero or one club.

Mayo - There are counties where at least 80% of the registered clubs don't field hurling teams. I fail to see how this is the fault of the traditional counties.

I'd ask every GAA club that fields only in one code - "Why do you field teams only on one code and what kind of help and support do you need to help change this?" Same question to clubs that field only hurling clubs. Does the will really exist in these counties?

https://www.gaa.ie/news/gaa-report-deficit-of-34-1m-in-2020-financial-results/

letsseehere14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121514898#Comment_121514898

Absolutely correct.

Look at the likes of Limerick, Clare, Tipperary. The effort these hurling counties put into fielding at both codes. Even Kilkenny, the most Hurling tilted county and they are fielding a not-insignificant number of adult and youth football teams (33% of all teams in Kilkenny were Football).

Then look at the effort the likes of Tyrone, Leitrim, Sligo, Louth, Cavan, Armagh, Mayo etc.

The fact that Limerick, are fielding 501 football teams out of 1033 teams (48%) - compared to a combined 468 hurling teams for Tyrone, Sligo, Mayo, Leitrim, Louth, Longford, Fermanagh, Cavan and Armagh out of 3683 teams (13%) tells you all you need to know about why hurling isnt growing in smaller counties. They are not allowing it to themselves.

This tread should be titled why do traditional football counties prevent hurling from growing?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517462#Comment_121517462

That is one part of the issue but I think it is too easy to blame the big ball game bit of a cop out. The likes of Donal Og sneers at football and would be delighted if the hurling status quo remained ad infinitum. Also we have seen how the powers that be (backed by the traditional hurling counties) treat the likes of Kerry hurling in Munster. Basically like sh!te on a shoe. They create hurdles and barriers to entry.

To me there is a certain religious fervour about the 'hurling man' that the average 'football man' does not have. But it is very selective.

The vast majority only pay lip service to spreading the gospel elsewhere. They like things as are, ie Munster Hurling = hurling - Plus Kilkenny and Galway.

Dublin are the only team I can think of in the last 10 - 15 years that attempted to break into the top tier hurling as a less traditional county. But even after 20 years plus of groundwork, they are falling backwards to mediocrity and further.

legendary.xix

Will traditional counties welcome New York to the hurling championship? From New York's preseason performance in the Connacht Hurling League, they are indications that they can compete at Christy Ring Cup level at least.

If the GAA allow New York to join the Meagher Cup, New York can't travel for multiple group games.