Do traditional hurling counties honestly want hurling to grow or stay as is?

hurlaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638216#Comment_120638216

Munster does nothing and alot in Munster would prefer if the Munster championship was the all ireland

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637910#Comment_120637910

That's the same point you were making. What I asked was what the Munster Council said about Galway and Kilkenny.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629668#Comment_120629668

Precisely! football is for fellas not good enough to play hurling.

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120637751#Comment_120637751

The Premier League is pretty much the opposite of what Cusack wants though. Live top tier English soccer was removed from free to air television with the advent of the Premier League. And for the first 10 years of the Premier League they only broadcast about 15% of games.

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633693#Comment_120633693

Dunno why I thought of this:

https://youtu.be/XZo16Yb76p0

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120641264#Comment_120641264

I wasn't referencing the Premier League from the perspective of the TV model (nor was Dónal Óg), rather its support base and the comparative lack of promotion of hurling. It should also be said that soccer is not popular because of its TV model. It can have its TV model because it has such numbers supporting it in the first place. Young people in Ireland knew the Liverpool team long before Sky Sports.

Kilkenny played Galway at home recently and there was just 11k at the match (forget about TV). This is a game struggling to generate interest if a game like that in the home town of one of the teams has such a middling crowd.

Interestingly soccer has Match of the Day and all its biggest games are free to air, FA cup final, most Champions League games, World Cup etc..

In any event soccer is a professional sport with a demonstrated need to raise revenue, and frankly has the demand to put matches behind a paywall without damaging the sport. Not sure hurling can say the same.

I know many Irish teenagers who would know the Paris St Germain team (never mind Liverpool) but could not name two, or maybe even one, Kilkenny or Galway hurlers. Now maybe that doesn't matter but if it does hurling needs to consider the television model.

Of course holding the championship right at the time that other sports' seasons are reaching a climax is a problem too but no way will the GAA change that. If anything the championship will be played earlier in the year in place of the National League in the future.

Sunny Disposition

I think nearly all hurling people would like the game to be more popular. In most of the traditional counties there is a great love for the game and an awareness that it's narrow base is always a threat to it.

I don't know why it doesn't catch on in other places, it's popular enough as a spectator sport, but doesn't seem to make inroads. Maybe that's because of competition with Gaelic Football? I'd be from a very strong hurling area and 25 years ago there was very few playing rugby here, but once Munster got going it became normal. Somehow hurling never seems to expand even when its popular on TV.

Red Silurian

The current structure in All Ireland hurling includes Munster, Leinster and Joe McDonnagh, which is 17 counties across the 3 championships... The football has 4 pools of 4 so one less in football no?

Rowley Birkin QC

I'm from Cork. Love the game, would love to see more counties competing. Anyone that wants to maintain a status quo is no friend of the game.

I'm playing a bit again with a Dublin club after years away from the game. The love for hurling is just as strong here as it is at home. It's also great to see the first and second generations of "new Irish" playing the game.

NewbridgeIR

It was much more enjoyable pre-1997

Straight knockout in Munster & Leinster. Winners go to All Ireland SF and kept apart.

Galway not in Leinster - they went straight into All Ireland QF playing the Senior B winners. They had plenty success in that system.

Ulster champions qualify for All Ireland SF

League taken more seriously and more potential for surprises (Mayo beating Waterford etc)

People played inter-county longer.

Once Kilkenny beaten, that was it for the year. They didn't get a second chance.

Great days.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642260#Comment_120642260

My theory is it is a harder game to learn, it is much easier for a young fella to head towards football if he previously played other codes - Soccer, Rugby etc. So if hurling is not taught or really encouraged at a young age, then counties are playing catch up straight away. Not many 'wristy hurlers' produced. And if the fella that happens to be a good hurler is normally a good footballer as well.

If the fella is in football county he more than likely going to pick intercounty football - Con O'Callaghan Dublin for example. And years ago when was going to secondary school I have heard one of his former teachers describe Vinnie Murphy as one of the best hurlers he has seen as a young age, and he would have been a much better hurler than a footballer.

It is no coincidence that no-one talks about glorious Munster football, it exists in mainly only one County who happens to be the most successful in the country - Kerry. And another Cork who don't seem to pushed about the big ball game half the time. So that is Munster's hurling advantage.

Limerick are an interesting case though as a County they used to be a jack of all trades master of none - Soccer, Rugby, Football, Hurling - bit of everything. Now they are the masters of hurling because that was where the main focus was put .

Clare? I assume Ger Loughnane was the spark? By sheer singlemindedness/motivation?

Since then I cannot think of any county that has improved except Dublin but are only OK at the moment. Even that was a long so process started in the late 90's by bringing in outside help from other counties, getting the structures in place etc - first successful huriing Dublin minor team was in 2005 Leinster Final. I still remember a Kilkenny fan sneering behind me 'you would think they won the AI'. That is the type of attitude up and coming hurling counties have to face. But then there was the Dalo factor, and Dublin punched above their weight for a while.

As for Munster Hurling itself. A number of years ago (no idea what year) I wanted to see a good Munster hurling match live in Semple to see what all the fuss was about. It was Cork v Tipp. Tipp were hot favourites. But Cork really put it up to Tipp - it was a 90 mile an hour game, so fast you couldn't mark the scores. A great 'advertisement for hurling' as they say.

But Semple stadium itself does not live up the hype as 'the home of hurling', I find the stadium a bit ramshackle, auld uncomfortable benches, plus you can have obscured viewing etc. The teams are forced to make it more than sum of it's parts

I struggle to get excited about it as an non-Munster person to be honest these days, same teams, same faces, and a lot of bluster and noise. Plus you can fairly easily predict who is going to win the hurling match. The round robin hurling has a feel of a challenge match. Teams just do enough not much 'on it'. I was much more interested in the Dublin v Wexford match, would only half watch Munster as the impression is they are only half trying.

So I think overall hurling has a number of major issues and it seems like hamsters on a wheel with little changing even over the period of a number of decades.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642405#Comment_120642405

In what way would you like to see it grow? This year Carlow and Offaly will both be involved in the last 8 of the All Ireland, last year we had Antrim and Kerry, the year before that we had Westmeath and Kerry.

Can it really grow much more?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642442#Comment_120642442

It wasn't very balanced though.

Munster had 5 strong teams and Kerry were always forgotten about. Now Kerry get minimum 5 championship games. Likewise Carlow would rarely make it through their first game while Galway and Antrim walk into the last 4

There's been a big improvement I think for small fish in big pond counties and the interest in these counties has improved as a result albeit from a low base

NewbridgeIR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642477#Comment_120642477

Kerry entered Munster occasionally (1977, 1978, 1993 are the ones that spring to mind)

Otherwise they played in the Senior B championship which was competitive albeit Galway always stood in the winner's way.

I think things were more evenly matched in league than they are now - Kerry beating Clare, Down beating Kilkenny, Meath winning against Wexford etc.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642445#Comment_120642445

I definitely got the impression that the Munster teams were trying. It mightn't have had the quality of Dublin-Wexford or other Leinster games but I thought, for example, in the Limerick-Clare game they were taking it reasonably seriously.

techdiver

From my experience no is the answer. Traditional counties like the status quo. Just look at last weekend for evidence. Westmeath had their biggest win in championship history and the Sunday game showed a paltry 3 minutes of coverage, talked about how great it was for Westmeath for like 20 seconds and then focused on how bad it was for Wexford for the remainder of the slot. This all led by panelists from Kilkenny and Tipperary.

Hurling development in counties outside of the "traditional" strongholds has been and always will be lip service led by a patronising attitude full of condescension and little actual action.

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642445#Comment_120642445

from a clare point of view to start with , in 2009 or 10 we were playing 3rd tier league hurling and beat wexford in a relegation matcch to the christy ring at the time

people became concerned and started to make themselves available as coaches at under age , it turned out we unerthed some of the best coaches in the country , people like gerry o'connor donal moloney peter casey alan cunningham and paul kinnerick a limerick footballer that was teaching in shannon at the time , thats why clare won the all ireland in 2013 and why we didnt drop further down the line

but i dont see anything like this happening in either wexford or waterford at the moment and worryingly i see dublin starting to slide again , i think dublin needs investment in hurling , wheres better coaching is needed under age for the other two

as for the munster championship , it is always easy on the eye but i regard galway and kilkenny as the better all round teams , leinster was always a grafters championship while munster was always the more entertaining , leinster v munster teams from semi final stage on is normally 50/50 so dont believe the hype

thurles is a little run down especially the old stand , but it is the most perfect town to see a game , the atmosphere is excellent there are so many side roads to exit the town after you would be a fool to get stuck in traffic , and the people down there know how to look after supporters an excellent venue in fairness

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120648959#Comment_120648959

Kilkenny & Galway better all round teams? So logically you would predict a Kilkenny-Galway All Ireland final then? For all the "hype" about Munster Kilkenny have lost to all bar Clare in their last championship meetings with Munster teams. Not sure they are definitely better than the Munster teams. The championship is set up to suit these two counties alright.

Mantis Toboggan

Do traditional hurling counties honestly want hurling to grow or stay as is?

Completely irrelevant, question should be what are each County and the GAA doing to grow hurling in the county?

This "ah shure we've only 5 hurling clubs, aren't we great to be competitive" no, you're not, you're a disgrace, how can a county board stand over such few clubs playing hurling, pathetic.

Poor hurling counties need to stop looking to the likes of kilkenny and Tipp to sort out their problems and sort it out themselves.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120647509#Comment_120647509

I think this badly misrepresents the tone of the commentary on the panel. Wexford have been one of the better hurling counties for decades albeit they have endured significant lows e.g. during the post-2004 period when they got a lot of bad beatings from several counties. But they had it in them to come back despite minimal underage success. Their current precarious position puts question marks around their future. As Offaly have shown bouncing back is not automatic.

Given their long association with hurling's top tier, Wexford's demotion is a bigger talking point than Westmeath's win. After all Westmeath lost to Galway by 6-33 to 0-17 the previous match and avoiding relegation appears to be the extent of their potential for now. To over-egg their win over Wexford would be patronising in the actual context of where they are at. The result appears to say more about Wexford's decline than it does to confirm the progress of Westmeath who actually drew with Wexford last year which many now praising them seem to have forgotten about. Wexford declining is not a sign that hurling is growing, quite the opposite maybe. Not sure that's something to celebrate.

Commentators are entitled to worry about Wexford's demise as anyone who thinks Westmeath are going to take a step up immediately and fill the reasonably competitive role Wexford did over the decades is naively optimistic. Hurling being the preserve of a select amount of successful teams may be irritating but every sport is the same. In fact, in sports when people get to choose their teams (soccer for example) they will nearly always choose a successful one and can be mocked for not doing so. So in reality most people don't mind this aspect of sport.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629311#Comment_120629311

There are few things more cringe than listening to the likes of Donal Og talk about hurling and trying so desperately hard to make it out to be something it's not.

I've long felt imo Donal Og is a nasty nasty individual. A few years ago he was all for ''Team Ulster'', one of the wost things ever suggested, yet he now seems to have a gripe with Antrim. He also has one with Kerry now. It wouldn't at all surprise me if he had applied for both jobs at some point and didn't get them and how has a grudge. Because it's something right down his street.

Cummins another man who's all talk about promoting the game. Was involved on and off with Kerry for a few years. What his actual role was is anyones guess, but when Kerry one season were to play a McDongah Cup game where was Brendan? On RTE coverage of the league final 🙄 These lads have no interest in ''development of hurling'' they just want a quick buck and think their name should entitle them to jobs in the likes of Kerry, Kildare etc

hurlaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649358#Comment_120649358

Cusack has one agenda and one agenda only himself

Mantis Toboggan

People seem to be getting angry with certain individuals, miss directed anger imo, you need to be angry with your County board, the GAA as to why hurling is so poor in most counties.

Barlett

I can’t see a day where hurling grows beyond the counties is popular in now. As someone from a non- traditional hurling county , I find hyperbole around it eye-rolling & gives off a sense of insecurity. I also think the ease at which points are now scored at the highest level and the erosion of the importance of a goal to be very detrimental to sport as a whole.

sportsmaddad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058297403/do-traditional-hurling-counties-honestly-want-hurling-to-grow-or-stay-as-is

To answer your topic question, moreso than the details of this post, the answer clearly no, they don't want it to grow. Just listen or read back on all the hurling commentators reaction to the possibility of Wexford being relegated from the Leinster Championship. They all say they're in favour of growing the game. Well unfortunately that will require a 'traditional' power being overtaken by another county from time to time. The Joe Mcdonagh Cup would benefit hugely from the relegation of more teams from the Liam Mccarthy competition. And not to mention the completely closed shop of a Munster Championship.

As long as these issues are not addressed Hurling will unfortunately remain very much a minority interest sport.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120651311#Comment_120651311

imo and this will more than likely been a controversial view but i think the McCarty Cup would have been better off had Westmeath stayed up. I know they had to win today and didn't, but i just don't see what Antrim actually offer the McCarty Cup. When was the last notable result they've had? Beating Dublin in 2010? Yet they never built on that. Westmeath looked to be going the right way. Stayed up in Div 1 beat Wexford having drew last year.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120649102#Comment_120649102

Would you have some Munster teams move to the leinster championship to try and shake things up?

I wouldn't be against the idea of merging Joe McDonnagh and Christie Ring into one competition, 2 groups of 6 and the top 2 in each group play in a respective final for promotion to Leinster or Munster. Make Munster a 6 team league then would effectively open the All Ireland to 24 teams every year

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120652160#Comment_120652160

i would be , dublin get an awful reputation but they are better then the current waterford team and so are wexford , the fact is the attendances of the munster games add to the atmosphere and rte and the general media lap it up ,

if you follow hurling the space given up by cork and limerick was unforgivable ,it wa the total opposite between dublin and galway which tells its own story

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120652369#Comment_120652369

I think you're getting a little carried away about the results yesterday in your judgement of teams. Waterford took Limerick to the wire and beat Tipperary this year. Yes, they had some bad performances but so did Dublin and Wexford.

The only teams Dublin beat in Leinster were two of the three relegation contenders and they could only draw with the other, Antrim.

Wexford have failed to beat Dublin in their last three championship meetings,and have failed to beat Westmeath in their last two. I wouldn't assume anything about what either of these teams would do against anyone.

And Dublin-Galway was shown live on RTÉ yesterday despite the fact that the three qualifiers from Leinster were already known. Not bad TV coverage for a relatively insignificant game.

Jack Daw

The traditional hurling counties want to keep the sport to themselves, they pay lip service and pretend they want to expand the game but secretly they think the non elite are beneath them.

Look at the whining by the main sports columnist in today's Irish Independent about poor old Cork being out of the championship and how unfair it is (despite them losing 2 of their 4 matches) .