Should i Rent or sell my house ?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451207#Comment_120451207

What would happen if a bad tenant stopped paying rent or a landlord stopped mortgage payments? Mortgage interest is still accruing so would it still be deductible?

The OP should sell if the move is permanent. Ireland's rental market is only going to get worse and with the stroke of a pen the OP may never be allowed to regain possession of their property.

covidcustomer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454662#Comment_120454662

I get your analogy here, but not your logic, as this would mean no-one should drive a car would it not? Maybe I am misunderstanding, apologies if this is the case.

All investments involve an element of risk, people contemplating any investment should (imo) do it on a long term basis, over the course of 20 years (or more), yes they might get a bad tenant, but they may get 10 goods ones.

I think the OP (and others considering same) shouldn't rent out their home because at the moment they simply don't know if the move is permanent.

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120454703#Comment_120454703

It's taxed as income so you pay PAYE + USC + PRSI. So for most that's going to be 40%+8%+4%=52%

So unless I've missed a memo about a change to the law regarding paying tax that's what you pay.

vandriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455225#Comment_120455225

It's entirely dependent on other relatively high income whether the rental income would hit 52%.

My point is that it's not a given

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455123#Comment_120455123

Yes true all investments involve risk only that at the present moment, renting a house as a landlord presents a huge risk, one that can put the owner under... If the law was there to deal quickly with non paying tenants like 2 - 3 months maximum, that is a manageable risk but we don't have proper laws in place yet.

When proper laws will be in place, it will be way better not only for landlords but for tenants...

What you simply miss is the point that landlords leaving affects tenants... They are the ones suffering!!

good vibes

20% tax if the person is resident in an other country.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456015#Comment_120456015

That's only an interim payment off tax liability. You could be hit by a much bigger tax bill in the future

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456015#Comment_120456015

Not true. That’s only a withholding tax.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455656#Comment_120455656

If you own a rental property it's unlikely you're on minimum wage.

mitresize5

In a similar enough position at the moment, just finishing an 18 renovation and had always planned to move into the new house and rent out the existing one.

We were really thinking of selling but have decided to make it available to Ukrainian refugees via the local council.

You get 800e a month tax free and you only have to commit for 6 months at a time.

We are waiting for clarification whether it will set the rent benchmark for PRTB purposes. If it does we will leave it empty and pay the mortgage down monthly.

The 800e is less than 50% of the market rate locally for rent. But considering the tax rate and potential of a SF government its a no brainer for now. We will reasses in a few years.

Might be something to consider

redarmyblues

Sell, sell, sell you will get a mini portfolio in Spain for the price of your place in Dublin, Overhold and the other government funded NGOs will not be happy while residential rentals remain in Ireland.

Westport Covies

Let it out to the council for 6 months so it can house a family of Ukrainian refugees.

800pm Tax free and by not selling, you're ensuring your house doesn't become a bnb.

Then after 6 months in Spain, you'll know better what you want to do

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058291435/should-i-rent-or-sell-my-house

The detached, unemotional financial advise would be to sell unless the value of the property represents less than about 7% of your total wealth. Property is a high risk asset class and having more than a 6% - 7% exposure to property is considered a high risk portfolio.

vandriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456056#Comment_120456056

You could be,or you could earn 35 ,your wife earn 35 and it still wouldn't be 52% on the rent.

covidcustomer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456002#Comment_120456002

I don't see how I missed that point? Of course LL's selling up in their droves affects tenants?

My point (which I think you missed) is that property investment is a long term investment and the OP hasn't yet decided if their move is permanent, until they do, I think it would be unwise in this climate to rent their property out.

Tenants want long term housing, security of tenure and they really want it now more than ever, so anyone considering renting out their properties now, will have to factor this into account.

I don't think that anyone would argue with the need to support LL's in the event of non paying/bad tenants.

.Donegal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120450810#Comment_120450810

Absolutely Hilarious. The crowd who have never been in power in the history of the state are to blame for the housing crisis. Leo would be proud of that one. And therein is your answer for why there are no houses to rent in Ireland, too many thickos blaming others for it and not the two parties who have ruled the state nonstop.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457153#Comment_120457153

On top of renting/owning another property? Doubtful but possible I suppose.

vandriver

You can earn up to 80 grand on the standard rate this year.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453982#Comment_120453982

What you are doing is ignoring the replies of a huge amount of experienced people.

For what its worth, as long time landlord who has only just recently been able to experience the bliss of not being a landlord, sell, and dont look back.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460618#Comment_120460618

To which I might ask 'Were you ever a renter and how did it work out for you and your renting cohort of friends, relations and acquaintances then"?

We rented three properties before purchasing. Two were completely hassle free, the third was fine also though some unpleasantness with the landlords relative who was charged with inspecting the house when we were leaving. The people who owned it and emigrated (like OP here) were fine but the sister left to handle it for them left something to be desired.

C3PO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453982#Comment_120453982

The problem is that if it goes wrong it can go horribly wrong! The prospect of living in Spain and trying to organise an RTB case while a tenant sits in the house paying no rent and destroying the place for literally years, just wouldn’t be worth the risk for me! In the OPs place I would absolutely sell!

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461425#Comment_120461425

This, all day long.

It's not just the percentage risk of a rogue tenant (I accept that the majority are absolutely fine) - but it's also the consequences that could result from happening upon that 1%, and the lack of avenues and backup to regain control of your property and/or seek redress for damage/loss of income if you're unlucky.

That's the balance that has shifted in recent years, and what makes being a small-scale landlord so unattractive.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461368#Comment_120461368

I rented in 4 different countries, a total of about 25 years. I know what its like from both sides. I dont think you will find a whole lot of people around who never rented. Unless they moved from home to a purchase. There are some, but i think very few like that.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461467#Comment_120461467

Yep and that's why I wonder when I hear the high level of 'anti renter' sentiment. Most people are fine. Doesn't diminish the worry or concern I'm sure but then there's risk in many matters of life. What's different currently? The prospect of the Shinners getting in?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462688#Comment_120462688

I think for the most part its risk adversion rather than a high level of anti renter sentiment. A significant number of landlords that contribute to the accommodation thread have had a bad experience with a tenant, its a bigger problem than most are willing to admit. When things go wrong and you only have one rental or its a property that you might return to it can make your life as a landlord very difficult. It can take a significant amount of time and money to rectify.

The OP might be lucky and get a good tenant but they might also be unlucky and get a tenant that stops paying rent that takes a year or more to remove. I have some rentals 99% of my tenants were perfect but two were non compliant and it's was a nightmare to rectify.

At the end of the day the OP needs to decide if they are willing to take on this risk

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462688#Comment_120462688

Let's take OP keeping the house because they might want to come back in 2 years. In 2 years they decide to come back and issue a notice to the tenant to vacate. In the meantime inflation is 10% per year so market rents are 20% higher than 2 years earlier, but OP's place is in an RPZ and rent has only gone up 4%. Tenant decides they don't want to move, Threshold, SinnFein and various other TDs advise them not to go anywhere that overholding is fine and OP can't get them out, OP is stuck in Spain. It's already happening.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463760#Comment_120463760

Let's take OP keeping the house because they might want to come back in 2 years. They do their due diligence and select a tenant that fits their criteria, they explain their situation and move to Spain. In 2 years they decide to come back and issue a notice to the tenant to vacate. The tenant vacates as they are reasonable and the matter was fully explained to them at time of rental.

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464053#Comment_120464053

That might happen 98% of the time, but the 2% is there (and rising because of a multitude of factors) - and if ,despite your due diligence, you hit upon one of the 2% then it could be ruinous.

It's not only the risk, but the consequences of that risk, that is tipping the balance away from renting.

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464053#Comment_120464053

There is no due diligence at the moment that will guarantee that.

Where is this tenant going to go in 2 years time?

OP's first problem will be selecting from the hundreds of applicants due to a lack of supply in the rental market, due diligence on all of those would be a full time job for a month.

Tenant in 2 years time will get told on all sides that they are a victim of the housing crisis and are entitled to stay where they are.

OP will end up providing a discounted accommodation indefinitely to a stranger due to RPZs and not having access to their own life savings tied up in their property to provide a house for themselves, could end up paying full market rent themselves (instead of the tenant having to) if they move back while trying to regain possession of their place.

Politicians here, including the taoiseach, are normalising overholding to get them out of the political mess caused by a lack of proper planning on housing. You'd be insane to get involved in that and lend your property out at the moment.

Your arguments would make sense in a market with sufficient supply, or principled politicians willing to support the law and property rights in spite of the political cost of doing so. We don't seem to have any of those.

Terrier2023

Sell your house & be done with it. getting a trustworthy tenant is very difficult & with you being in Spain you will have to engage a property management company, so with that and all the issues with tenants your head will be wrecked. You wont have control if you want it back you'll have a fight on your hands, tenants have become very militant with the backing of the government. Sell my friend and enjoy the Spanish culture.

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464053#Comment_120464053

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons

Trigger Happy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456325#Comment_120456325

This scheme is well worth looking at. We are heading down that road ourselves as it is a lot more flexible for the homeowner compared to going traditional renting. The 800 is tax free too.

Accommodation Recognition Payment for hosting refugees from Ukraine (citizensinformation.ie)

Otherwise we would be selling. No way we would want to be a landlord in the current climate or once Sinn Fein get in.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455123#Comment_120455123

I am saying no one should drive a car without insurance unless they have no assets. Investment involves risk and the bad tenant scenarion makes the risk for the small investor unacceptable. If someone has to money to survive a bad tenant then they can take a long term view else they have to be cautious. Likewise there are certain shares widows and orphans should avoid.

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120464214#Comment_120464214

The problems is that SF easily stop the payment and the RTB could easily decide that they are tenants and their rent is 800 which is now taxed.

OP it's a difficult decision to make if you sell, you could be locked out of coming back due to rising house prices. If you rent it you might never get it back. There was one thread here where somebody rented their holiday home to a family member while they were looking for something else. They were the bad guys for wanting their holiday home back. Another who rented their house to friends while they were working abroad and when they came home they refused to move out. Could you do a corporate letting. Go for two years and then either come home or sell it. Either way you are taking it back in two years.

Claw Hammer

It is not for the RTB to decide someone is a tenant and the payment is rent. The RTB has no jurisdiction. The Ukranians have no status as tenants. They can be moved out by the owner at any time. If that was to change it would be announced publicly well in advance and an opportunity given to owners to enter regular rental arrangements with the Ukranians or recover possession of the property. It is the least risky option for the owner of a property at the moment. The risk of damage is small and there is no difficulty recovering possession at short notice if needed.