Why I'll say no to a united ireland

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122153165#Comment_122153165

You complained that they ( the dastardly British who you clearly despise) had an aircraft carrier, the inference being that you would prefer if they had not. Fat lot of good it did Ukraine being neutral, but you would never complain about Russia having an aircraft carrier. Good to know the SF position.

Now, why not answer Downcows question to you. In post no. 9260, he changed the names for you to see if that would’ve been acceptable as an apology by Cameron after Bloody Sunday:

In a what appeared to be a carefully prepared statement, Mr Cameron said his thoughts were “foremost with all those families whose loved ones were killed”.

“We must never forget those who have died or been injured, and their families,” he said.

“I am sorry for all the lives lost during the conflict, without exception.”

As he asked you in his post number 9262, "if David Cameron had said that would you have accepted it as an apology?"

A yes or no answer will suffice. No more waffle please.

Now don't be hypocritical and say you would not accept that as an apology when you would accept similar words from someone who thought there was "no alternative" to the "armed struggle"?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122153500#Comment_122153500

Have the British expressed regret for all the lives they took (that we know about currently) here, ever?

There is zero comparison.
The IRA apologised and stopped what they were doing and devoted themselves to 'exclusively peaceful means'.
The British still try to militarily enforce their will or threaten to.

That is what aircraft carriers are for, and that is why I used one symbolically. They also, of course, use other means.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122153623#Comment_122153623

I think you and the New IRA are still living in the past if you think that in relation to Ireland "The British still try to militarily enforce their will or threaten to."

Don't worry, they are not sending aircraft carriers here.

The rest of us have moved on, time you did too.

droidman123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122153665#Comment_122153665

You are the one who hasnt moved on,repeating the same things over and over again

Furze99

It's unlikely we'll have a UI in the immediate future, maybe not even the medium term.

In this event, just how damaging would it be to the Republic's economy to install a hard border with customs and immigration controls? It would obviously be awkward for those living either side but perhaps they could be fast tracked through express lanes. As for the rest of us, well we travel north rare enough to not be bothered about a delay.

downcow

I have always felt even more sympathy for lads like these than for those of us who were reared on the island and had some skin in the game.
It is one thing dying for a conflict that you have a side in, but dying because you were trying to help in a conflict that you had no direct feelings for, is just very sad. My thoughts go out to that son and that wife featured in the video. LWF

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0518/1449931-fermanagh-british-soldier/

droidman123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122154878#Comment_122154878

I was wondering when you would post about that,but not a peep out of you yesterday on the 50th anniversary of the dublin monaghan bombings.we can all do the tit for tat posts downcow,but it serves no purpose.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122155107#Comment_122155107

I have no idea what you mean? I am simply pointing out that young people came over here with little, if any, knowledge about who was right, who was wrong, etc, And stood between the warring factions, but paid the ultimate price. I feel very sorry for families like these.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122153001#Comment_122153001

so do I assume you condemn Ireland cooperating with our armed forces. Here’s your guys passing out this week, courtesy of our guys.
https://x.com/beattiedoug/status/1791858435677438103?s=46

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122155641#Comment_122155641

While I'm certainly not without sympathy for the man's family, I think the issue most on the CNR side have is that they very much didn't stand between warring factions. They may have had little if any knowledge about who was right or wrong, but they very much took a side.

To be clear, it in no way makes killing those men OK.....but I've no idea how someone could have MORE sympathy for an active combatant than an innocent child, be they killed by a Provo bomb or a British soldier.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122155644#Comment_122155644

The Irish aer corps and the RAF have cooperated for decades on air sea rescue matters

During the 2010 December snows,a chopper from RAF Valley rescued hikers stuck on snow drifts in Wicklow bringing them to hospital in Dublin

Last Summer the Irish Aer Corps was drafted in to drop water on forest fires in Co Down

Its nothing new,just healthy cooperation

British airways is very busy on the Dublin London route by the way busier than Belfast

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122153623#Comment_122153623

If there are a group of people responsible for your posts,they really should have a quality control team approve them before they go out ,because the above especially with regards aircraft carriers exerting control is bizzare bordering on childish in 2024 Ireland

You might want to look away when the Bray air show is on…

https://extra.ie/2023/07/31/news/irish-news/pics-bray-air-display

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122155649#Comment_122155649

well, of course you have gone to extremes with an innocent child. My argument is that some people died in this conflict whose families and community were at no risk how they just stay at home in Scotland, Wales, etc.

no more tragic, just I feel for the families who must wonder why was my loved one caught up on that?

downcow

Irelands future managed to find a ‘unionist’ to take part in one of its events. My goodness it has tried incredibly hard.
When this guy gets up to speak, I wonder will the audience consider how much he is out of step with the unionist community, and in particular with young people - 96% of 18-25 year olds disagree with him that a united around is inevitable. That is an incredible figure.

mattser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122155688#Comment_122155688

Top class post. Nailed it.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122155924#Comment_122155924

That would be 96% of committed young unionist's in a shrinking cohort of voters less likely to vote vs older ones

Real politik up North is demographics and the relative openness and prosperity of the Republic

The old dog for the hard road and the pup for the path

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122155676#Comment_122155676

absolutely

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122155641#Comment_122155641

They stood between warring factions for about a week. Then they took the side of the unionists and actively murdered people at the command of the British government.

You make them out to be innocent peace keepers. They weren’t. They were sent to Ireland to win a war. Anyone who joins the British army accepts the fact that they have to kill people when ordered. I feel sorry for their wives and children. But these men chose to fight.

downcow

Appreciate that Post. I can’t get sucked into tit-for-tat here, because sometimes I forget that the likes of Francis is not representative of the general population south of the border. That is a great article on the show, and says a lot about the ordinary folk of Bray that they came out to enjoy it.

my local seaside resort had the red arrows for several years and every year it was by a very long distance the biggest crowd of the year. The SF controlled Council couldn’t stomach it any anymore and have refused to fund it, but the business people in the mainly nationalist town are putting pressure on them to have the red arrows back.

Someday in the north we will learn how to enjoy spectacles even though they are not 100% our community thing, from fleadhs to the red arrows, from gaa matches to the parades.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122156001#Comment_122156001

I don’t understand your spin of the stats. Are you suggesting that everyone that vote unionist is a committed unionist?
This stat refers to 96% off those in that age category who voted for any unionist party in Northern Ireland. This is not a reflection of all those committed to the union as we know that many who vote Alliance and even for the nationalist parties, have indicated that, when it comes to a border pole, they will vote for the union. It’s very difficult to find Unionist voters who would vote for a united Ireland, even elderly out of touch people like Mr Thompson.
I’m also not sure what you mean by the demographics - do you mean a sectarian headcount? Because that is the only demographic that I see changing. It seems the more the culturally cnr group increases, there is a matching increase in the number of culturally cnr people who have no interest in a united Ireland.
I know that is a very depressing stat for Republicans and Irelands Future agitators - but it is what it is

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122156033#Comment_122156033

can’t agree with your explanation as to why they were sent here. I think you will also find it difficult to reference any history book that will agree with you.
I could give you endless references explaining that they were sent here to keep warring factions apart and primarily to protect the Catholic community

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122156033#Comment_122156033

I feel disappointed that an intelligent person like a moderator (albeit of recreation and hobbies) would fall for the old SF line that the BA "chose to fight". Hundreds of thousands of personnel, men and women, chose to serve in the BA during the decades of the troubles. The vast majority of them did not fire a bullet or plant a bomb or do any physical fighting. They were there to help keep relative peace / stop the place becoming even worse / try to restore law and order (which they did). You forget the jails were full of loyalist prisoners too, and some security forces died and were injured in clashes with loyalists too. Republicans planted nearly all of the 19,000 bombs during the troubles, and caused nearly all of the damage to property, the economy etc by kidnapping industrialists etc. Republicans killed 60% of the total killed.

What about the Irish Gardai and army killed by the pIRA : would you say about the Irish Gardai and army "But these men chose to fight"?

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122156141#Comment_122156141

Theres a contradiction in your statement

Unionist voters arent unionist voters if they don't vote for the union

Do ya know every election in recent years has returned a significant weakening of the unionist position,thats a fact as are the changing demographics in the heavily gerrymandered creation that is NI,the Roman Catholics are still breeding like rabbits I'm afraid

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122156179#Comment_122156179

Not breeding like Rabbits as much as in the past: when I was young here south of the border, many families were huge, but there has been a huge change, families are smaller now. Both parents often work to pay a mortgage. Contraception was not even widely available then because of the RCCs relationship with the state. Even some religious Catholics I know reject the RC Church's teaching on contraception, and only 35% of weddings last year in south of the border took place in a Catholic church.

Up north there a lot of Catholics now who have good jobs and affordable housing and affordable cars and pensions and who want to remain part of a G7 economy, the UK, rather than be in a UI which would be ran by SF, the largest party on the island. Do not forgets whose bedfellows SF are internationally.

As someone else said 'Show me your friends and I'll show you the person you are'. As we come up to Eiropean elections, check the members of the various political groupings within the European parliament. Sinn Féin are grouped with the communists and marxists of Europe. The grouping is called The Left in the European Parliament – GUE/NGL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Left_in_the_European_Parliament_%E2%80%93_GUE/NGL

Another reason to say no to a U.I., the title of this thread.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122155688#Comment_122155688

Why don't you tell us what the purpose of global military alliances are Pureza.

You can actually do that (explain the purpose) without having to side with a military or an Alliance. What significance of the Bray Airshow has here I don't know.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122154878#Comment_122154878

Another exploitation of a victim to make political gain.
Suffice to say, while any death was a tragedy, if a British soldier was unaware he or she was on 'a side' they were remarkably dim or willfully ignorant.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122156168#Comment_122156168

that’s why they were sent originally, I acknowledged that.

It didn’t last long though. The British state supplied material and intelligence support to the loyalist paramilitaries during the length of the troubles. The Paratroopers committed a massacre during Bloody Sunday. The SAS shot unarmed people dead in an alley. Thats all in history books as well.

Your defence of the British military is ridiculous

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122156179#Comment_122156179

the bad news for you is that more and more Catholics are choosing the union.
We can argue as much as we like, but here is an organisation whose purposes to cut through the crap

https://factcheckni.org/articles/is-there-no-growth-in-public-support-for-a-united-ireland-is-support-shrinking-instead/

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122156175#Comment_122156175

EVERYONE who joins the army commits to fighting at the orders of their government. Not the Gardaí.

The fact that I'm a mod of the Fitness forum irrelevant. History is clear. The British army fought a war in Northern Ireland. The only ones they protected were the British state.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122157462#Comment_122157462

....that article absolutely does not support your position that, 'more and more Catholics are choosing the Union'. The article posits that support for Unification is stable, Downcow. If more and more Catholics were supporting the Union, one would expect that support for the Union would be increasing.

I wonder do people even read the things they post or just the headlines.