Why I'll say no to a united ireland

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116019#Comment_122116019

If I used the term "murdering scumbag" it was almost certainly because someone else used that term first. I was then asked if I though so and so were murdering scumbags etc. It is not a term I would usually use. Anyway, I answered your questions.

The questions I asked you were indeed relevant to the discussion about the B.A. / IRA. Perhaps you can please answer them? A yes or no will answer the first 2 : a place name will answer the third question, if you are able.

(A) If the pIRA did not plan, build and explode 19,000 bombs during the course of the troubles, as well as numerous sniper attacks, shooting off duty part timers in the back or in bed, kidnappings, disappearances, in their failed effort to get a "United Socialist Ireland", don't you think community relations would have been a lot better?

(B) And would you agree if the pIRA did not plan, build, transport and explode 19,000 bombs during the course of the troubles, as well as carry out numerous sniper attacks, shooting off duty part timers in the back or in bed, kidnappings, disappearances, then the odd mistakes - terrible and tragic for all concerned as they were - by a tiny percentage of the security forces who served in N.I. would not have occurred? Yes or no?

(c) The pIRA planned, built, transported and exploded 19,000 bombs during the course of the troubles. Can you name one bomb explosion that can be proven to have been planned, built or exploded by the British?

That does not excuse the British by the way : I said they did make mistakes and were not infallible. Overall though, given the stress they were under and the amount of riots over the 35 years or whatever ( Bloody Sunday was not the only riot, I remember in the early eighties at one stage there were almost daily riots ). I also think if the policemen were not shot and killed by Republicans in Derry just before Bloody Sunday, or if at least some of the soldiers had not felt a threat to their lives, B.S. may not have happened.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116032#Comment_122116032

Mistakes can be argued if justice is done. When a crime is covered up and justice denied, there can be no arguments for mistakes.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122115742#Comment_122115742

There was still no excuse for the pIRA, 

There was NO excuse for any of it. From the beginning, yet it happened.
Almost as it happened in almost all the colonies of the BE.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116071#Comment_122116071

I did answer your silly questions, I wish the IRA never set off one bomb. No idea how many bombs the British detonated. Why do you think I would have the expertise, or responsibility, to answer these? It is completely irrelevant to anything I have said, as is your bizarre German submarine question.

Can we finish with these silly games now please.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116117#Comment_122116117

Almost all? Rubbish. It did not happen in Singapore, Hong Kong, New Zealand, Australia, Canada etc

Stop diverting. I asked you questions previously, why do you keep diverting?

Why cannot you or Miniegg even just answer a few easy Yes or No questions. Are they too embarrassing for you to answer?

The questions I asked you were indeed relevant to the discussion about the B.A. / IRA. Perhaps you can please answer them? A yes or no will answer the first 2 : a place name will answer the third question, if you are able.

(A) If the pIRA did not plan, build and explode 19,000 bombs during the course of the troubles, as well as numerous sniper attacks, shooting off duty part timers in the back or in bed, kidnappings, disappearances, in their failed effort to get a "United Socialist Ireland", don't you think community relations would have been a lot better?

(B) And would you agree if the pIRA did not plan, build, transport and explode 19,000 bombs during the course of the troubles, as well as carry out numerous sniper attacks, shooting off duty part timers in the back or in bed, kidnappings, disappearances, then the odd mistakes - terrible and tragic for all concerned as they were - by a tiny percentage of the security forces who served in N.I. would not have occurred? Yes or no?

(c) The pIRA planned, built, transported and exploded 19,000 bombs during the course of the troubles. Can you name one bomb explosion that can be proven to have been planned, built or exploded by the British?

That does not excuse the British by the way : I said they did make mistakes and were not infallible. Overall though, given the stress they were under and the amount of riots over the 35 years or whatever ( Bloody Sunday was not the only riot, I remember in the early eighties at one stage there were almost daily riots, often by people with petrol bombs etc ). I also think if the policemen were not shot and killed by Republicans in Derry just before Bloody Sunday, or if at least some of the soldiers had not felt a threat to their lives, B.S. may not have happened.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116156#Comment_122116156

What do you mean - Britain subjugating the native populations didn't happen in those colonies? My lord above...

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116181#Comment_122116181

What was meant was that there were not terrorists there who planned and exploded 19,000 bombs etc, etc like the pIRA did.

Miniegg

Ohhh sorry so they lied down and took it like good lads. How did that work out for them?

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116156#Comment_122116156

Im genuinely not sure if you are a glitching robot or a person. I answered your questions, did I not do it right or something?

Your comment about maybe the BA wouldn't have shot innocents if x y z didn't happen is absolutely appalling. Those people had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE IRA.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116209#Comment_122116209

Generally much better for them than for the countries elsewhere in the world that the other European colonised. Practically every country in Europe had a colony or colonies in the world "back in the day".

The countries mentioned (Singapore, Hong Kong, New Zealand, Australia, Canada) are all thriving, as many Irish expats who have moved there will tell you.

Now, any chance you will answer the 3 simple questions I asked you? I answered yours.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116229#Comment_122116229

I never said the people shot in Derry on Bloody Sunday had anything to do with the IRA. Get you facts right. Now answer the 3 questions.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116232#Comment_122116232

Yup like those you mentioned we are thriving aswell, since independence that is.

Your comment is so ignorant though! Are the aborigines thriving, the natives in Canada etc?

Again you are back to every country did it. Other countries had terrorists too, so by your logic what are you doing here talking about the IRA??

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116261#Comment_122116261

The aboriginies in Oz and the natives in Canada are certainly doing better than the natives in most of the countries around the world for example, which other European powers (eg Spain Italy Portugal Germany France Holland etc ) colonised.

No, Singapore, Hong Kong, New Zealand, Australia, Canada etc did not have terrorists like the pIRA.

Now stop diverting and answer the 3 simple questions. I answered yours.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116357#Comment_122116357

This is the last I'll reply to your "3 questions" - already answered. Read my posts. Now sling your hook like a good lad :)

droidman123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116357#Comment_122116357

https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/04/1600-civilians-killed-by-british-forces-since-1945-is-tip-of-the-iceberg/

This was posted earlier,read it and educate yourself

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116411#Comment_122116411

1600 civilians in nearly 80 years, out of literally billions of people worldwide is not statistically significant, especially as some of those 1600 people were probably active combatants / terrorists.

Edicate yourself and look at other European countries record throughout the world. Look at Belgium's record: Leopold II established Belgium as a colonial power in Africa, but he is best known for the widespread atrocities that were carried out under his rule, as a result of which as many as 10 million people died in the Congo Free State. That is just one place alone: in the scramble for Africa, when almost all of Africa was colonised by someone, I bet the people in the Congo wished they had been colonised by the British instead of by the Belgians.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116398#Comment_122116398

I have read them and nowhere did you answer the 3 simple questions. How pathetic of you, especially when I answered all of yours.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116570#Comment_122116570

My god. I am not sure if you are joking or there eis genuinely something wrong with your phone/ computer.

1. I dont think the IRA should have set any bombs, never mind 19,000. What makes you think I would say anything different? I know society was pretty awful for Catholics in NI until recently. I don't know what society would have been like if the IRA didn't exist. What on earth makes you think I have the expertise to answer your question?

2. I don't believe British massacres, namely BS or BM, were mistakes in any shape or form. I have provided my rationale for that belief and no need to repeat it. There was no excuse for these whatsoever, the IRA grew in prominence after these events, these are arguably what kicked off the troubles, and Britain actions ever since backs up that these indeed were not mistakes.

3. I have no idea how many bombs Britian detonated. How would I possibly know?

I have no idea why you are asking me these questions. Nothing I have said on any of my posts are relevant to your questions, now kindly, as I asked, sling your hook

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116638#Comment_122116638

You did not answer the questions I asked. What you have written above do not answer the questions. You are not very good at comprehension, or indeed history, are you. Here are the questions again.

A yes or no will answer the first 2 : a place name will answer the third question, if you are able.

(A) If the pIRA did not plan, build and explode 19,000 bombs during the course of the troubles, as well as numerous sniper attacks, shooting off duty part timers in the back or in bed, kidnappings, disappearances, in their failed effort to get a "United Socialist Ireland", don't you think community relations would have been a lot better?

(B) And would you agree if the pIRA did not plan, build, transport and explode 19,000 bombs during the course of the troubles, as well as carry out numerous sniper attacks, shooting off duty part timers in the back or in bed, kidnappings, disappearances, then the odd mistakes - terrible and tragic for all concerned as they were - by a tiny percentage of the security forces who served in N.I. would not have occurred? Yes or no?

(c) The pIRA planned, built, transported and exploded 19,000 bombs during the course of the troubles. Can you name JUST ONE bomb explosion that can be proven to have been planned, built or exploded by the British? You cannot, so we can conclude the British generally at least did not lower themselves to the standards of the pIRA.

N.B. Are you aware that Republicans killed policemen in Derry just before Bloody Sunday? So your statement that Bloody Sunday "kicked off the troubles" cannot be factually correct, although it did of course escalate it. If you think the British high up planed to kill innocents, why would they have done that? If they wanted act "outside the law" to attack the PIRA / kill the pIRA would'nt they have "taken out" the commanders?

For example, in the seventies, McGuinness was filmed by an American film crew loading a bomb in to a car : the same car with the same reg later exploded in Derry. The British ensured the film was buried, and only resurfaced decades later. Why do you think the British authorities never acted outside the law and targeted him and other Republican leaders?

Has the penny dropped yet with you?

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116666#Comment_122116666

Finally a question relevant to something I spoke about, you are catching on to this debate thing really quickly...

If you think the British high up planed to kill innocents, why would they have done that?

I have my opinions, but very hard to know as they for some appalling reason won't release documents under FOI, and changed their laws to avoid prosecuting the "murdering scumbags" who killed and covered it up.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116802#Comment_122116802

Would'nt it have made more sense for them, if they did want to operate outside the law and deliberately murder people as you allege, to "take out" the Republican commanders, instead of innocents? Has the penny not dropped yet with you?

You still have not answered the 3 questions, that says it all.

Would you agree if the pIRA did not plan, build, transport and explode 19,000 bombs during the course of the troubles, as well as carry out numerous sniper attacks, shooting off duty part timers in the back or in bed, kidnappings, disappearances, then the odd mistakes - terrible and tragic for all concerned as they were - by a tiny percentage of the security forces who served in N.I. would not have occurred? Yes or no?

Choochtown

Disgusting to read a poster refer to Bloody Sunday as a "riot" (twice today)

Exact quote:

"Bloody Sunday was not the only riot"

Waste of time engaging in a debate with someone who has that mindset.

droidman123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116566#Comment_122116566

This reply sums you up perfectly

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116903#Comment_122116903

Because this is real life, not Call of Duty or Hollywood.

To your other points - it is plainly obvious what you doing. You are trying to stifle debate and shift the focus of my posts and the extreme wrongs committed by the British here, by making up harebrained questions that have absolutely zero to do with anything I have posted.

I don't support the IRA, have never stuck up for them as you have for BA forces, who you labelled "best in the world", wtf does that mean, which shows your unbelievable hypocrisy. I have answered your frankly insane questions as a courtesy, if you don't like the answers then there is nothing I can do for you. The matter is closed.

I find your views bizarre, hypocritical and offensive. British victims are washed away because either they deserved it, the IRA planted a million bombs, and if not, their many murderous transgressions and coverups here are listed as mistakes, or look at what Belgium did. Crazy stuff. I doubt there are any depths you wont sink to, and still, at the end of it all, I have no idea what you are arguing for, outside of bashing thing you don't like.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116201#Comment_122116201

So the British successfully subjugated in a few places?
God knows they had enough experience of doing it, it was bound to work somewhere.

downcow

I have just been proved wrong. I had thought that Republicans would never ever admit they were wrong about anything or ever make a genuine apology.
I think I need to give praise where praise is due. This is a fairly good attempt at a full admission that the behaviour of SF at the sectarian killer and mafia boss’s funeral was disgraceful and it’s a fairly good attempt at an unequivocal apology. Has she broken ranks or will others follow? This has been well received by everyone in Northern Ireland impacted by it - something similar on the IRA sectarian violence would be a game changer
from Belfast Telegraph:

SF minister admits she knew going to Bobby Storey funeral would undermine Covid effort

Under questioning from a barrister for the families of those bereaved by Covid, Caral Ni Chuilin goes further than other Sinn Fein expressions of remorse for attending IRA leader’s funeral

A senior Sinn Fein figure has admitted that she knew before attending veteran republican Bobby Storey's funeral that it would undermine the pandemic response.

Caral Ni Chuilin told the Covid Inquiry in Belfast that the IRA commander had been a "dear friend" but admitted she was wrong to use her ministerial car to go to the massive funeral in breach of her own public health advice.

Pressed further by a barrister for the families of those killed by Covid in Northern Ireland, the North Belfast MLA admitted that she shouldn't have gone to the June 2020 funeral at all.

In her written statement to the inquiry, Ms Ni Chuilin accepted that public confidence in the Executive's decision-making "was impacted by breaches of rules and standards by public figures in the North or in Britain".

She went on to say: "I attended the funeral of my dear friend Bobby Storey in a personal capacity, and I accept that in doing so I caused hurt to families who lost a loved one during the pandemic. I apologise for the hurt caused by my actions."

Brenda Campbell KC for the bereaved families put it to her: "By the time that you took over as Communities Minister in June 2020, you – and everyone – would have been only too aware that the Executive had imposed previously unthinkable restrictions on our community and that those restrictions had caused a great many people to make very painful sacrifices, particularly around the attendance at funerals of parents, of children, of partners, or, as you put it, of 'dear, dear, friends'.

"Rather than just hurt, can you see the impact that that had on our community in terms of anger, and resentment, towards our publicly-elected representatives?"

Ms Ni Chuilin replied: "I can, Ms Campbell, and I just want to take the opportunity again to apologise to the families who lost a loved one. I am very sorry. I absolutely do see the impact, and I also recognise that people were more than angry, so I do accept that – and I really am sorry."

Former Sinn Féin ministers Caral Ni Chuilin, left, and Deirdre Hargey giving evidence to the Covid Inquiry in Belfast

Ms Campbell responded: "Do you accept also that it's not a matter of hindsight looking back on the impact; that attending such a public funeral in those circumstances as a representative of our community, the consequences of that must have been foreseen by you in your decision to attend?"

Ms Ni Chuilin responded: "I think that's a fair point”

The barrister went on, that "no only did you attend, but in order to get to the funeral, you used your ministerial car – that's a point that you have latterly accepted, I think..."

Ms Ni Chuilin siad: "I did, and I reimbursed the department for its use."

When asked if she could see how a decision to attend the funeral in her ministerial car had contributed to a sense of public disillusionment, she said: "I accept what you're saying. I had business in the Assembly straight after the funeral. I had to go to the Assembly and bring in regulations that afternoon. I accept I should not have went [sic] to the funeral in the ministerial car."

The barrister replied: "Is it further than that? Do you accept that you should not have gone to the funeral at all, given your role as a minister for our communities?"

Ms Ni Chuilin said: "I can see the hurt and the anger and I accept that now; yes I do."

👏👏👏👏 well done caral

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122116117#Comment_122116117

is it only the Brits you don’t like or is it all the conquerors including the Celts? The Celts indeed were probably the most violent, given the torture techniques that have been found by archaeologists. Should they be sent home as well?

Conquerers in Ireland and their approximate times of arrival:

First Modern Humans (Hunter-Gatherers): Around 12,000 years ago.

Celts: Arrived during the Iron Age (exact date varies).

Vikings (Norse-Gaels): Settled in Ireland from the 9th century onward.

Anglo-Normans: Conquered parts of Ireland in the 12th century.

English and Lowland Scots: Arrived during England’s 16th/17th century.

In summary, Ireland’s history reflects a diverse mix of peoples and cultures over time and a violent history of conquest

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122118980#Comment_122118980

As you mention above in your history, we are all Irish here, a mix of all sorts (even if some refuse to admit it). I wonder are there many people claiming to be Norwegians a thousand years after they landed here....

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122118980#Comment_122118980

If you want to open a thread on the Celts, go ahead.
Yet again it is the ‘they did it so that makes it ok for us to do it’ excusing

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122119173#Comment_122119173

again, that is not the question I asked. and why don't you go and open a thread about the Brits? this thread is about a united Ireland - no more to do with the Brits than the Celts