The 2023 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120444386#Comment_120444386

You know what I am taking about

Avoiding Kerry and Dublin in the QF or SF stage is the easy side of the draw.

It was plain from day 1 that whoever won the Connacht championship had an easier route to the final that the teams that did not because Dublin and Kerry were nailed to win their provinces and this would be avoided.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120444411#Comment_120444411

Why are Galway people getting so stroppy about someone not believing the hype around them ?

It's awful early to start getting upset now isn't it ?

Fr Tod Umptious

RTE Preview of the Championship from TV last Sunday.

Really weird, no mention of Kerry being a contender, all Dublin, Galway and Mayo.

https://youtu.be/zinHr5C5z3I

TagoMago

Without any outstanding teams in the country, should be an exciting Championship, with Kerry probably favourites, think they will be happy with how the league went for them given their lack of training beforehand.

Looking at the new structure, I'm struggling to figure out what the point is of having preliminary QFs, other than to squeeze in a few extra fixtures? Seems completely unnecessary, surely straight into 1st V 2nd QFs (as is the standard in pretty much every sporting competition in the world) would have made more sense? 3rd place teams getting another crack at it seems daft.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120444540#Comment_120444540

Looking at the new structure, I'm struggling to figure out what the point is of having preliminary QFs, other than to squeeze in a few extra fixtures? Seems completely unnecessary, surely straight into 1st V 2nd QFs (as is the standard in pretty much every sporting competition in the world) would have made more sense? 3rd place teams getting another crack at it seems daft.

It will almost completely eliminate dead rubbers in the group stages.

At the final game there will still be third place to play for at least.

We had some awful dead rubbers in the old Quarter Final Group Stages.

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120444550#Comment_120444550

It's unlikely to avoid dead rubbers in the group that the Connacht runners-up are in. If Sligo or Leitrim lose their first two group games against Division 1 and Division 2 opponents, they could be playing a provincial winner in Round 3 who have won 2 games. In that very highly likely scenario, the provincial winner is already group winner and Sligo or Leitrim are already eliminated.

This is a reason for the 4 provincial runners-up and the 8 league qualifiers being seeded on league placing. If Sligo or Leitrim are seeded 4, after 2 losses away to Seed 2 and at home to Seed 1, they would still play Seed 3 with the possibility that a win could take third place.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120444950#Comment_120444950

I guess in that situation the game between the other two teams is still a live game to see who will have a Home Round of 12 game and who will be away. So at least both games won't be dead rubbers which can happen in a 2in,2out group, and I'm sure happened in the Super8s.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120443634#Comment_120443634

I think the way things pan out will determine how teams view the provinicials in a big way - if the Connacht/Ulster winners do well/poorly, it will set the narrative for the following year(s)

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120444386#Comment_120444386

Tbf, Galway were on the easier side of the draw last year by avoiding kerry /Dublin but as you say, they were there on merit by beating Mayo & Roscommon.

I think last year Galway had a core of top quality players - Walsh, Comer, McDaid, Kelly, Conroy - and a bit of a drop off after that. This year, they've added to that core with Daly, Tierney, Maher, Heaney all back/playing well so far plus a few young fellas playing well.

Personally, I think ye have a very good chance this year albeit along with a host of 4-5 other teams who will be thinking the same.

Assuming the draw allows it, I'd expect kerry, Galway, Dublin, Tyrone & Mayo all to be in the last 8. Derry likely to join them plus 2 others, maybe Roscommon & AN Other

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120445151#Comment_120445151

That part remains to be seen. When two teams are qualified, will they go all out for home advantage?

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120445423#Comment_120445423

Well/poorly is a bit vague. Back in the day when the Provincials were everything, there was a long period where neither Ulster nor Connacht provided an AI winner. Between Down's wins in 1968 and 1991 no winner from either province. Donegal and Derry emerged immediately afterwards, and a bit later Armagh and Tyrone.

Galway were the only hope in Connacht, given the way Mayo and Roscommon are never able to recreate past glories. But then again Mayo might do it this year, and then the narrative will be how brilliant the new system is.

Comic Book Guy

Will repeat fixtures be allowed once we get to the group series? I would presume the first and second seeds from each province will be kept apart?

Will they be allowed in the groups after the provincial system is finished or in the quarter final draw from the province and/or group games?

dxhound2005

Preliminary Quarter-Finals 24-25.06.2023 (Sat/Sun) (Four Games) The four second-placed teams from Round 1 shall be drawn to play at home against the four third-placed teams, subject in the first instance to the avoidance of repeat Provincial Final pairings and where possible repeat pairings from Round 1. Home Venues shall be subject to approval by the Central Competitions Control Committee and shall meet the criteria set down by the National Facilities/Health and Safety Committee.

Quarter-Finals 01-02.07.2023 (Sat/Sun) (Four Games) The four first-place teams from Round 1 shall be drawn to play against the four Preliminary Quarter-Finals winners, subject in the first instance to the avoidance of repeat Provincial Final pairings and where possible repeat pairings from Round 1.

Semi-Finals 15-16.07.2023 (Sat/Sun) (Two Games) The four quarter-final winners shall play against each other in the Semi-Final based on a draw, subject to the avoidance of repeat pairings from the championship, where possible.

PTH2009

https://www.gaa.ie/football/news/2023-sam-maguire-cup-and-tailteann-cup-structures-explained/

So Westmeath go into Sam instead of Cavan (unless they get to an ulster final) ??

You'd fear the Division 3 teams will be too strong for most of the Division 4 teams

dr.kenneth noisewater

Is there a thread for the pools for this years championship?

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120446172#Comment_120446172

Westmeath have been in this years Sam Maguire since they won the Tailteann Cup last July.

PTH2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120446999#Comment_120446999

The provincials are somewhat 'meaningless' for some teams. Kerry and Cork guaranteed a place in the Sam

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447482#Comment_120447482

Cork, Clare and Limerick were in Division 2 this year. Clare and Limerick have dropped out but they should be able to put up a strong challenge.

Drumpot

As a dub , I’ve watched them throughout the league and think they look closer to the team that choked regularly in the 00s then the team of a few years ago that never looked like losing a game.

I know league form can count for little in the championship but Dublin have not looked right at all. They look more likely to lose a tight game, plenty of our better players have looked nowhere near the kind of form they showed a few years ago , decision making has been very poor (particularly up front) and defence looks porous.

This whole “Dublin have mannion and McCaffrey to come back” means nothing for me. We haven’t seen enough of them yet to really know will they be able to recapture top form. Also it’s not like they are coming back into a Jim Galvin Dublin, they are coming into a Dessie Farrell Dublin that’s never looked as strong or tailored for success.

In short, I think this idea that Dublin are anybody’s favorites is based off an assumption that Dublin will do what they haven’t done for a few seasons and just click into gear in the summer. Alit of this is assuming our better players will drag us over the line when it matters.

Have Dublin a chance? Absolutely, but on what I’ve seen the last 2 years I wouldn’t have them as probable winners, this kind of feels more like pundits looking to put all the pressure on the dubs.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447662#Comment_120447662

I think there may have been complacency setting in during the league a level of expectation that they should be in the top 2. The same will happen in Leinster were they will probably be playing at less intensity. They will raise there game in the knockout series. Sure Kerry only beat them by a point last year and if Dublin beat Kerry they more than likely would have won Sam.

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447747#Comment_120447747

I think Drumpot is right. Dublin are living of reputation right now. Last Sunday was the first time I saw them in the flesh for almost a year now. And they looked the same as they did when they were getting hidings in the league last year. They don't seem to have any plan or drive. I know they beat Derry handy enough in the end, but both teams were poor in the second half. They are a far cry for the years where we (Mayo) would be heading to Croke Park in the hope that Dublin would finally have a bad day, but time after time their composure, athleticism and skills would win through. You could see from them that they refused to be beaten. That doesn't seem to be there any more. And won't just magically appear overnight whenever they want it for championship.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120444950#Comment_120444950

Yea that is a possible situation alright, here it is on paper

Kerry

Sligo

Donegal

Westmeath

Game 1

Sligo v Westmeath - Westmeath win

Kerry v Donegal - Kerry win

Game 2

Donegal v Sligo - Donegal win

Westmeath v Kerry - Kerry win

So going into the last set of games (Kerry v Sligo, Donegal v Westmeath) the table is as follows.

Kerry 4

Donegal 2

Westmeath 2

Sligo 0

If Sligo beat Kerry the best Sligo can do is end on 2 , but have already lost to Donegal and Westmeath so lose out on that tie breaker.

If Sligo beat Kerry, Kerry end up on 4 but have already beaten Donegal and Westmeath so Kerry win that tie breaker.

So regardless of the outcome of the Kerry Sligo game Kerry are top and Sligo are out.

Dead rubber.

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448273#Comment_120448273

Yeah, Donegal and Westmeath are playing for a home preliminary quarter-final though, it should keep them honest enough but I doubt they would risk anyone carrying a knock.

In your scenario, if Sligo are seeded 4 and Tyrone are Seed 2 in place of Westmeath:

Kerry 4 points after beating Donegal and Sligo.

Tyrone 4 points after beating Sligo and Donegal.

Donegal 0 points.

Sligo 0 points.

Kerry and Tyrone play for quarter-final qualification. Donegal and Sligo is a shootout for the preliminary quarter-final spot.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447818#Comment_120447818

Obviously the fear factor is gone but I still think they will be in the mix in the business end of the championship.

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448341#Comment_120448341

I think they will be in the mix aswell, I just don’t see how so many have them as favourites.

Even though it took a truly superb free to beat us against Kerry I don’t recall thinking we were robbed. If anything I thought we were lucky to be even in the mix till the end. One could argue Kerry getting that monkey off its back was as big as the result because it well and truly ended Dublins invincible aura.

Don’t hear too many “break Dublin in two” demands, that’s usually a sign we are back in the pack and maybe not as big a favourite as some have suggested 😂

dr.kenneth noisewater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447818#Comment_120447818

Dublin lost to Kerry by a point last year and have Mannion, McCaffrey and Con ( and Cluxton) back this year so have to be favourites. No other team has added one player as good as any of those 3.

Dublin dont need to peak for another couple months so will build up as they go, they'll walk Leinster and then just need to start stepping up at group stage where they'll finish top 3 easily.

Others like Mayo and Derry need to hit the ground running to win Connacht or Ulster and then raise it again at the group stage which is a tougher ask imo.

legendary.xix

Some pundits are suggesting the provincial championships should take place before the league. There is some merit in the suggestion. The 4 provincial winners could be guaranteed qualification, similar to the Tailteann winner from the previous year. Then have the league where everyone is clear on the league position for All-Ireland qualification. Then proceed with the All-Ireland series.

charolais0153

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120447818#Comment_120447818

Dublin often played middling Mayo still couldn’t beat them tho

dxhound2005

During the six in a row, Mayo drew with them, and lost the replay by a point. Lost another final by a point as well. In the draw Mayo had two own goals. Kerry also drew with Dublin in one of those years. Kick of a ball as they say in the six in a row never happening.

2015 to 2021 inclusive 7 years, only four counties competed in AI Finals. Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and Tyrone. Galway joined the party last year.

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120450163#Comment_120450163

Home advantage is a big advantage in All-Ireland finals. Can you imagine if some of those replays were in Castlebar or Killarney instead. All-Irelands won without home advantage carry more weight in gold. A goal is 3 points. Are 3 All-Irelands won with home advantage the same as 1 All-Ireland won without home advantage?