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VW ID.2all concept

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13

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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    The price of the car is not due to the costs of the hardware it contains, the car is priced according to a perceived value that consumers are willing to pay. Plenty of examples of manufacturers charging more for a car that has an identical engine but is running a different tune to increase its output.

    Costs and prices of consumer goods have been separated for a very long time. So have cars, your only noticing now because a manufacturer is willing to enable a feature for a combination of a subscription or one time fee after purchase.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    It's not consumer choice if you've paid for something you can't use.

    It's completely different than different trim levels at different prices.

    You're now paying for a car that comes at one trim level, you won't be getting a cheaper model if you don't want any of the gadgets.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Power output differences is usually down to software mapping.

    The only beneficiaries are manufacturers and the ever increasing modder side business to get around manufacturers artificial limitations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    By that argument VW should be selling an EV with a 15kWh battery, no touchscreen, air conditioning or heated seats to compete with the likes of a Dacia Sandero

    But they're not interested in competing in that segment, they're aiming more upmarket

    We haven't seen the trim levels yet, and we won't for several years. It's quite possible the €25k version won't be loaded with the extra hardware, it might just be the bigger battery version

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,693 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Personally I think it looks class, they've lifted all the right elements from the Golf, Polo and ID.3 to make a nice looking mini hatchback


    What's class about it? It's not even out yet and already it looks old and boring. By the time it's out in two or three years time it will look positively ancient.

    Just another boring shoebox VW.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I would argue there's advantages to the lower power, for example a novice driver who is getting their first insurance policy. The insurance company might not be terribly happy at the idea of a 19 year old driving around a 220hp car.

    But if the power can be restricted then it might be a way to get a lower insurance premium

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Bit harsh wasn't it 😉

    Each to their own, personally I think the Golf and Polo from the 2000's looked amazing and it's great to see some of those design elements back


    I'll admit VW design is generally very conservative, they tend not to reinvent their designs that often. I think it's a selling point for their customers, they've found a look that works and stick to it


    And let's be honest, most cars look the same these days. See a Peugeot 3008, an ID.4, a Kia Sportage and a Ford Kuga from the side and you'd struggle to tell them apart

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Did you know manufacturers only sell cars to make money? Consumer choice is improved by them offering after market upgrades.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    It would be cool if upgrade kits were officially supported, so you could get the hardware added to enable some features after purchase

    It would probably be a lot more expensive than getting it fitted in the factory, but it would be a good way to keep the up front cost down

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    You're right but there are a lot of boring farts out there moaning about the size and cost of EVs. This might be just up their street. This car will fit nicely into the lives of people who are currently driving petrol/diesel polos and golfs in a few years time. It'll be hard enough tempting them into an EV so best keep the design familiar.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,645 ✭✭✭creedp




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I wonder will this or the Renault 5 be available first. I like both quite a lot!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel




  • Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭jiminho


    Looks great and I think they’ve really hit the design on the head. I particularly like the interior. There’s no way they’re hitting the 25k price point though. I think the polo starts at around 21k in Germany and around 23k here. I can see it having a 2 in front of it but I think they might only have one, maybe two, models that are in the 20k range. The Fiat 500 is 25k w/ the grant. The grant will probably be gone by the time this arrives so I’m not sure but it will definitely be a welcome arrival at that end of the market.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Well the target is 25k in Germany, which has lower VAT, no VRT and a larger grant


    If the current grants still apply in 2025 then you're probably looking at ~€28k here

    That's assuming VW Ireland doesn't wave the magic wand and make the price €33k somehow

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I was trying to figure out the dial in the centre console for ages, I thought it was the gear shift like from a Kia, but the gear shift is on the right stalk


    It looks like it controls the display theme, allowing to select classical dials or modern digital instruments


    That's pretty cool, but I really hope they expand the use out to a rotary controller like what BMW use (although maybe not as overly complex)

    It would make it a lot easier to use the infotainment without getting distracted IMO

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    I don't understand the excitement around this launch.

    Having to wait 3 years for a plain looking VW Polo EV, that'll have a 38 kWh battery and probably be priced in the 30-35k bracket.

    3 years it a long time in the EV market, I'd expect a whole heap of cheap Chinese EV's to have arrived in Europe in the mean time.

    We'll probably have the Tesla 2 on the market as well.

    I'd still expect it to sell well in Ireland, due to our unwavering love of the VW brand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,884 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    What makes you think we'll have a Tesla 2 on the market in the next three years? They are chronical slow getting new models out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I guess the reality is, most people don't want to drive around in a car that looks like a concept car. They like the familiar and continuity of design. I think it's good that car companies are recognising that cars don't need to suddenly look different just because they are EVs, in fact this may hinder the more speedy adoption of EVs. Car makers seem to want to make this transition asap. VW says 80% of its vehicles sold in the EU by 2030 will be electric and Renault says that figure will be 100%. They don't seem to want to have to support two technologies in parallel. I also think Musk would have told us about a Tesla 2 if it was on the way. The TSLA share price took a hit on the back of this VW announcement so if they had something, Musk would have tweeted it by now.

    I expect it will sell well worldwide. People like VWs pretty much everywhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Well they've already said it'll be Europe only, too small for the US market which is crossovers and SUVs only. There's a similar style car being made in China through one of their joint ventures as well, so it's possible that could sell globally

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,344 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Is the Tesla 2 not going to come from the Mexican factory. So 2-3 years away



  • Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    The car seems to be a hit in the YouTube comments. It does nothing for me. I think they've played it too safe. Car design is complicated. Personally I like the look of the ID3 and ID4 but I think VW have lost the confidence of golf and polo drivers and wanted to release something more familiar to grab the attention of that audience again. The ID4 is a big, bulky family car that ticks all the right boxes for people coming out of Tiguans who want something a bit more futuristic looking on the driveway as a first EV. It doesn't have to be beautiful. The ID3 I would have presumed ticked the Golf box but maybe VW aren't attracting enough people away from golfs into the ID3. I think this new ID2 will do just that as it's bound to cost as much as the current Golf. Either way VW generally get their designs pretty bang on and know what their customers want. They get a lot of stick online about the ID range but in the real world these cars are selling well so customers must like them. I've always thought the ID4 looks great on the road. It's not a car for YouTube. I think the ID2 is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I think it's quite good looking, but then I always liked the look of the Polo and Golf, particularly from the 2000s and I think they've recaptured some of that

    It's funny how recently VW were saying the ID.3 is more of a Golf Plus, whereas at launch all the comparisons were to the Golf, so they definitely seem to have walked back of the idea of a Golf replacement somewhat. Not really surprising given the former CEO was ex-BMW and wasn't particularly invested in VW history, whereas the current guy is a VW career man


    I seem to remember a while back that VW were getting a lot of ID.3 and 4 buyers from other brands, but their Golf and Polo buyers were still buying Golfs and Polos. I guess those models in particular have always commanded a lot of brand loyalty, at least when compared to the likes of the T-Roc or T-Cross (aka Sadness and Despair)

    I guess that's the advantage of something like ten MEB platform, you can have as many different designs as you want sitting on what is basically the same car underneath

    I will say the interior is a massive step up from the current ID cars. I know the microfiber on almost every surface might get some raised eyebrows, but it's durable and generally easy to keep clean. Certainly a lot better than the shiny black plastic which stays clean for all of 3 seconds

    And there's some evidence they're listening to customer complaints on user experience, like a better UI and actual buttons

    I'm still not convinced about the lack of covered storage, I don't get the obsession with wireless charging pads for phones when a sunglasses case would be far more useful. But again, I feel there's a lot more useful storage going on in the concept than my ID.4

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    I've no issues with the ID4 interior but yes I agree that a few more physical buttons would be nice. I've always found the infotainment really easy to navigate in the ID4. VW and Audi are good at laying out these things. My wife on the other hand struggles with it so like say a phone it isn't for everyone. By microfiber do you mean on the dash and doors? The interior of the ID2 looks more like what Polestar are doing. I've just picked one up and while the interior is lovely I'll be interested to see how it holds up against our ID4. The recycled plastics are very strange and pick up dirt easily. The microfiber on the doors is lovely but I can see it getting filthy. The ID4 interior is easy to clean by comparison.



  • Registered Users Posts: 886 ✭✭✭brownej


    I looked over the press releases and statements on this and there is nothing specific about the 25k price. Is this including an assumed tax rate or not? Does it include a government subsidy. Who knows?

    In Ireland we have the 23% VAT plus 7%VRT on top of that so that 25k starting price could be well into the thirties.

    I heard an add on the radio this morning for the VW Eup and that is coming in at 28k including the 5k grant. Take that off and its a 33k car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    While I agree there's a lack of details, previously they have quoted the prices for ID models based on the price in Germany for a private customer

    Perhaps they've changed, but "we forgot about VAT" doesn't really fly for a company the size of VW

    A lot can change between now and then, inflation is making that target look increasingly ambitious

    The car would fall under the VRT rebate if it still exists, so no VRT will be due. Same for the SEAI grant, if it still exists


    This is assuming that VW Ireland don't just tack €9k onto the price because in capitalism that's a good thing apparently 😕

    You're absolutely correct that a lot can happen in 3 years, so it's very much up in the air. Personally I suspect the government will be trying to lower the grant ceiling to move away from subsidising expensive SUVs towards more budget friendly ones


    But they might just drop everything completely, we won't know until budget day

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 994 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    It was a German launch. The price would include VAT.

    It won't be 25k here but what car here is sold at similar prices to Germany.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    They will be aiming to be cheaper then eUp in terms of cost to build.

    Remember that eUp is an ICE car converted to EV - ie making it more expensive to build.....

    I sat into an eUp last week incidentally but it's a bit small for me so a no go....



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,693 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    I guess the reality is, most people don't want to drive around in a car that looks like a concept car. They like the familiar and continuity of design.


    It's because they are boring Conservative old farts that's why. That is the type of people that buy VWs.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    This car might just be a PR exercise to keep the VW club happy. The ID cars stirred a few pots, particularly with diehard golf and polo drivers. Mr and Mrs Tiguan and the two kids want a Jetson car for their next trade up so they don't care what VW put out and are already eyeing up an ID5. Three years is a long way away so let's see what the final version looks like. For me, this doesn't quite gel with the direction of their ID cars and I think the final version will look a little bit more interesting than this smoothed out Mk5.



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