Ireland v England Grand Slam Decider 2023

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unOGLMoYSqc&ab_channel=MarkGlasha

Super Saturday

12:30 Scotland v Italy

14:45 France v Wales

17:00 Ireland v England

Current Table

Permutations

Any Ireland win - Grand Slam, Six Nations, Triple Crown

Ireland Lose with a BP:

• France win with no BP - Ireland win Six Nations
• France win with a BP - Six Nations is decided on Points difference (Ireland currently +20 PD in table)

Ireland Lose with no BP:

• France win with np BP - Six Nations is decided on Points difference (Ireland currently +20 PD in table)
• France win with BP - France win Six Nations

Prediction

England have made a pact. "It's not going to happen again"

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/its-not-going-to-happen-again-england-vow-to-put-france-collapse-right-in-dublin-42386974.html

"I don't know what the result is going to be on Saturday, but as long as we fight and have each other's backs, that's what we'll be going after," Ellis Genge.

Sexton indicated the opening half against Scotland was one of the most physical halves of Rugby he has played. I expect the same at the weekend against England as it's the one thing they walk onto the pitch with and throw at us. Hopefully it's controlled and we don't see reckless injuries, Ireland may well be dipping far into squad depth for this fixture.

I don't see Ireland backing down against whatever challenge England bring - they've weathered it against France and Scotland this tournament, Saturday will be nothing new to them.

Ireland to open England up during the first half and their physicality to wane in the face of another harsh defeat.

Ireland 35 - 13 England

Would you look at the happy heads on this pair

phog

Ireland to win 19-16

pc7

Ireland to win, don't think 'plucky' England will have enough to beat us, just hope no big injuries and Sexton gets the send off from 6 Nations he deserves. Its been a cracking 6 nations, not just our games, love this tournament.

irelandrover

Hard to see anything other than a comfortable Irish win. My prediction is a close first 5 minutes and then Ireland start to pull away. Ireland by 25.

France by 30 against Wales.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120360476#Comment_120360476

Typical Munster negativity.

Paterson Jerins

England will win 12-6.

StevenToast

Its remarkable how the tables have turned....back in the 90s, if we beat the english...that was sufficient and it would make it a successful 5 nations campaign!

It was enough for us to sicken them and deny them winning the championship....

Back to the present day....Ireland would simply have to play shìte for England to have any chance of winning....

And Ireland are just too consistent, too proud, focused and full of quality to let that happen....

Losing this Grand Slam at home would be a worse bottle job than any previous World Cup exit.....

Ireland 46 England 12

FrancieBrady

I don't do predictions, just hoping for a confident win to send us on our way to the WC.

A win that doesn't leave any doubts about where we are atm. We need to clinically pick these guys apart and put them to the sword.

awec

We'll win, but England's result last week will mean we probably won't absolutely batter them.

All I'm sure of is come about 7:30 on Saturday night I'm going to be pretty pickled.

swiwi_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058288329/ireland-v-england-grand-slam-decider-2023

cough

you forgot the permutation if it’s a drawn match. 5/10 must try harder.

Clegg

Doris and Sheehan are back in training.

https://twitter.com/CianTracey1/status/1635978599550406658?t=0nGyxNadphcYw30TbpmEOQ&s=09

Quin_Dub

England could actually get themselves into bother if all they bring to the game is "Aggression".

I can absolutely see them picking up some early cards as they attempt to lay down a marker - They will have been stung by the media calling them "soft" and accusations of "not firing a shot" etc.

Irelands discipline has been excellent so far and will need to be again in the face of probably significantly increased shithousery from the English team trying to make a statement.

I think England will make it a dog fight for a while, but they will run out of steam and Ireland should put some daylight between the teams in the last 15-20 minutes.

Ireland by 15 to 18 points I think , but if England do indeed pick up some cards the margin could be more.

sydthebeat

real hard call for Borthwick here.

do they start Smith again, and play a more expansive game that came so unstuck against frame in twickenham... or do they start Farrell and Tuilagi and essentially play an 11 man game with 4 kick chasers?

both those styles will be picked apart by Ireland, but i feel the kick heavy game might be the best way to keep the score down. Peyper tends to allow mayhem at the breakdown, and can by psychitzophrenicly different by the end of the game than how he starts, so targeting garryowens and the resultant ruck may be englands best chance to find a way forward in the game.

i really do not fear a farrell tuilagi and slade midfiel, nor do i worry about a smith farrell slade combo. i would have feared a Ford farrell Tuilagi combo 3 years ago, but not now. Manu is injury prone, Ford is injury prone and only back, and Farrell is not hitting his heights.

ive a feeling that i fireland get a couple of tries ahead early on, english heads will drop an we could put in a bag full.

ireland 35 england 13

Water John

The avg of this 6N is six tries per match. Are people saying this match will be below that?

I remember in 2019 we were red hot favourites & England blew us away.

This is going to be so much closer then we think, especially our injuries.

My prediction is England by 2

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361749#Comment_120361749

if it pisses rain, yeah very possible

flatty

England are absolutely useless.

SaoPaulo41

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361760#Comment_120361760

Ireland were on a serious decline then and opposition had figured us out. Also England werent coming in afte a record defeat.What makes you think England will win other than comparing 2019 which is not really comparable? ON the injuries we have ready made replacements which we didn't have before .

God knows what happening in English camp after last Sat ,I can imagine they want this championship just to finish.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361760#Comment_120361760

It was also the first match of the 6N. A lot more can change between Nov and Feb than in one week in March.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361800#Comment_120361800

Before 2019 we had just beaten the all blacks & won the grand slam & I think a series victory in Australia. I wouldn’t call that a serious decline.

England figured us out & showed the rest of the world what to do.

We have injuries to some of our elite players I don’t believe in the hype of some of the others yet, basing that off the Italy, Fiji & Australia games.

England are a much better team than they showed against France

Former Former Former

If Sheehan and Doris are fit enough even to bench, and Furlong, Henshaw, Sexton and JGP are closer to full tilt - I can't see any way England can win this.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361858#Comment_120361858

I’d be shocked if the England management haven’t been doing an unbelievable amount of analysis this week on us.

I hope I’m wrong of course, I want to see them win the slam in Dublin.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361922#Comment_120361922

im sure wales, italy, france and Scotland also did "unbelievable amount of analysis" on us , and they still came up short.

SaoPaulo41

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361885#Comment_120361885

England are better than the showing v France I agree. However the Fiji game was a B team run out. The Italy game we were missing Furlong, Sexton, JGP, Henshaw etc all of whom are back. The Australia game, well they are potential WC winners and we still beat them

walshb

Couldn’t be a better set up. Home game, England, GS, Patrick’s weekend. Hoping our lads do it.

and hoping some dickhead “fans” can refrain from the usual slagging and slating should we lose.

There is an awful lot to consider in these one-off games. Not just a world ranking. England could well come over and play a hell of a game. So much can go right and so much can go wrong, and throw in referee decisions and the bounces of the ball, and nothing is guaranteed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361953#Comment_120361953

Of course, but none of those were just flogged by nearly 50 point’s in front of their home fans against fierce rivals.

They will want to send a message

People think we’re going to absolutely hammer England, id be shocked if there’s more than a score in it to either team.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362134#Comment_120362134

Well not just "people".

The bookies have the spread at -16 to Ireland, so not only fans, but also the people who pay big money to predict outcomes also expect us to hammer England.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362134#Comment_120362134

"Wanting to send a message" and "Being able to send a message" are not the same thing.

Nothing about how England have played over the last 8 or 10 matches suggests that they have the tools to beat the Irish team playing anything remotely close to current form.

I don't expect us to "hammer" them either , but I do expect it to be relatively comfortable on the scoreboard at the end.

It's Sport, so of course anything can happen but absent some kind of extraordinary event like an early Red card for Ireland or a host of injuries it's very very difficult to see where an England victory comes from.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362197#Comment_120362197

Ah yes those expert’s have never been wrong have they.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362214#Comment_120362214

We will see so Saturday. Hope I’m wrong.

tabby aspreme

I doubt it will be close after 60 minutes, but if it is, Ireland's fitness, vrs England's fatness, should see us win comfortably, when your depending on the likes of Dan Cole your not up to much

Limerick_dude

great to see Doris and Sheehan back in training. Can't see England beating us at the weekend, but presume there will be a backlash from their french defeat.

irelandrover

I honestly don't know how anyone could look at how Ireland have played so far, and how England have played, and actually predict England to beat us by 2 in Dublin. The only think i can see if they are afraid of being favourites.

Is there a possibility that England win, of course there is. But the bookies have us 16 points favourites, and that seem sto be the general thinking from pundits as well.

blackcard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361550#Comment_120361550

I presume that Kelleher didn't train?

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362221#Comment_120362221

Show me a poor bookmaker. Go on show me.

lawrencesummers

The english selection of Genge as captain is a baffling one.

Good an all as he is at being a prop the guy isnt blessed in the intelligence department and hasnt got anything like the onfield rugby brain that you need leading your team in test games.

All going well they persist with him long term

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362316#Comment_120362316

What’s your point?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362265#Comment_120362265

The same thing can be said for every upset in sport throughout history.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362316#Comment_120362316

Ivan Yates faces ruin as receiver appointed to Celtic Bookmakers – The Irish Times

SaoPaulo41

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362333#Comment_120362333

Other than you thinking of backlash, why else do you think England will win by 2?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362326#Comment_120362326

The point is very obviously that the bookies are right far more than they're wrong.

England need to play better than they have all season (possible) and Ireland need to have an off-day (also possible), but realistically it will be a huge shock if we don't win this handily enough. It's not even like they have a cohort of old reliables they can turn to for one last hurrah. They can bring back Farrell and Tuilagi, and after that?

OldRio

Says more about Ivan Yates than his profession.

arsebiscuits1

My main point of concern here is Jaco Peyper.

He's an extremely experienced referee but I think he's much too old school in his approach to the game and its currently interpretations.

Time and again his first reaction to obvious foul play is to start the punishment too low and not be talked up.

He nearly didn't send off Tu’ungafasi for his collision with Ringrose over the summer and only yellowed Fainga’anuku for an extremely reckless charge down attempt on Hansen.

He also only yellowed Gilroy for a dubious high shot that earned him a 4 week ban.

The advantage we have is that he refs in the URC so we know what to expect.

But I consider him to be a man too stuck in the older ways of rugby and if England want to come over angry and try to rough us up, they've gotten the perfect referee to gamble with this tactic.

Marius Jonker doesn't fill me with confidence either as I think he's from the same school as Peyper and I can see it being an echo chamber of wrong decisions.

Thankfully Ireland have become masters at taking the referee out of the equation. If we show up, play our game, there isn't any team or dubious decision that can stop us

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362357#Comment_120362357

Ah yeah, I'm just busting chops.

And I'd say your and my defintion of "ruin" is different from Ivan Yates'...

UAEguy2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362134#Comment_120362134

So you’re saying England will be more competitive against Ireland than France were?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362221#Comment_120362221

they are right, or very close to being right, very very often .. thats literally how they make their multi million euro profits

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120362369#Comment_120362369

Haha. I know. As soon as I wrote it I thought of Yates.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120361922#Comment_120361922

I think the difference between now and 2019 is that our gameplan under Schmidt was very limited. It was predictable. One out runners. Low percentage plays. No offloading. Box kicking constantly. Foregoing our skillset. Our current gameplan seems far less predictable. We are showing teams the exact same patterns with multiple options each time. The players seem to decide in the moment which is the best option. Here's an example of the same shape for Keenan's try and against France. Furlong probably has 5 options. This is the evolution that teams are struggling to deal with.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1635246503076966400

Clegg

The Daily Mail and the Times reports that England will select Farrell/Tuilagi/Slade as their 10/12/13 axis for the weekend.

Borthwick is clearly going for experience and selecting a combination that has beaten Ireland before. Don't know if it'll work this time.

https://twitter.com/MailSport/status/1636038754853961733?t=-E0XxRV3GskT8PtWumjPIg&s=09

TRC10

Honestly, I'll be disappointed if we don't do to England something similar to what France did to them. People are saying "England are a better team than what they showed v France" but honestly, I'm not sure. They lost at home to a good but overhyped Scottish team, laboured to a home win v Italy and beat a rubbish Welsh team playing a turgid, outdated brand of rugby. They have absolutely nothing in attack whatsoever. The style of rugby that won Borthwick a Premiership just doesn't work at test level. The game has moved on over the last few years. The top sides aren't easily forced into mistakes and know how to attack. This is the worst English team I've seen in my lifetime. Not to mention, Borthwick hasn't a clue who his best out half is.

We are absolutely light years ahead of them currently and we're at home. I'll be disappointed if we don't beat them by 30 points.

truthseekerxz

Excellent OP

I’m expecting a tight game and a 3-5 point victory for IRE

(edit: too superstitious for this joke. Ireland to win by 14+)