You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the Left - read OP

growleaves

In this context conservatism does not just mean "keeping things the same". Nineteenth century conservatives were trying to scrap everything they saw as sexually immoral about the 18th century. Sort of like how repealing Roe v Wade gets called "conservative" even though it is a radical overhaul of existing social mores in one sense.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120574975#Comment_120574975

Again though, you are not applying balance here.

You say there is nothing progressive about cancel culture — but cancel culture as it's called today is also an inflection of decades upon decades of much more severe cancellation of minorities, particularly gay people and indeed trans people — socially, culturally, legally, politically and religiously. .

Nobody wants to destroy womens sport. Right leaning people do seem to love this one, while bemoaning the fact that the world is becoming ever more left leaning. If the world is drifting ever more left, and women's sports are becoming ever more popular — well, what gives? That we have have an issue right now where we are trying to fumble our way to a better and more universally acceptable place on how we accommodate trans athletes does not equate to anyone wanting to destroy womens sports.

And if you want to talk about science — your stance is distinctly unscientific. Trans people exist in society, they are real and have been real long before they dared to speak out. That trans people exist, that gender dysphoria exists, are realities of sociology, psychology, physiology and anthropology — and simply because you think there is an invalidity to the science from a biological perspective does not invalidate the fact that there is a constellation of scientific grounding for how and why a person may question their gender or feel trans. The same way as gay people don't consciously choose to be gay ....right ?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120577468#Comment_120577468

Well I'm so far removed from it honestly I have to take your word and Wikipedia's so I'll sit on both :)

Sounds to me like the strategy of his would have allowed him to greatly expand the religion (He was Evangelical after all) to the poors and freed slaves.

Anyway, he did abolish slavery, which was a pretty progressive move, but it sounds like he did it for less than altruistic or even profit-motivated reasons as a noted philanthropist (a very conservative move too, imho). But y'know, that's just my impression of it. Throw in the anti-child prostitution rings and you have the modern MAGA movement, wow. I suppose it really does track that conservatives/the right abolished slavery in the british empire?

growleaves

Hmm it can hard to judge people's motives all right

Both leftists and rightists sometimes make the case that radical Christian-reform movements were proto-leftist but I don't find that argument too convincing.

Like the Counter-Reformation, you can get these huge waves of radical conservatism that suddenly brings back all the old societal moral values. It's new and old at the same time.

Because Michaelangelo lived so long into old age he caught the start of the Counter-Reformation. Nude painting was banned when he was in his nineties - just like it had been banned in the late middle ages before he was born.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120577326#Comment_120577326

And the right.gave us Aushwitz, we can do this all.day, gets us nowhere.

Kind of odd that some people feel left and far left are the same, but right and far right need to be distinguished. Almost like they think lumping rational moderates in with lunatic extremists is a bit unfair...

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120577416#Comment_120577416

You're cherry picking what you want to reference then.

Communism was/is a left wing ideology.

So you're saying that "the nice, slightly left wing people are the only people who ever did anything good" which is waffle and has no basis in reality.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120577756#Comment_120577756

I quoted somebody who gave a broad description "left leaning" as having been responsible for all the good things in history, something they could not substantiate.

You're correct, we can do this all day, we've been doing this all day for quite some time. And if another poster comes into the thread after five whole minutes on the site make generalisations without any evidence they'll be treated to yet more obvious counter arguments. Such is the nature of discussion.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120577831#Comment_120577831

Really? For you, maybe.

I've said several.times: the dangers are the extremists and the ones who just want to start fights and spread privocative rumours and lies.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120577943#Comment_120577943

You were calling a J.K Rowling names, and truly believed she was a "transphobe" because of what others told you. When asked to back up your claims you had nothing. You were just repeating things like a parrot. So, by your own logic you too are an extremist, even though you try so hard to convince us of your moderation.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578182#Comment_120578182

Eh... JKR is a transphobe. There's many receipts. Here's an entire article about it.

https://www.vox.com/culture/23622610/jk-rowling-transphobic-statements-timeline-history-controversy

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578224#Comment_120578224

Most normal people would not consider any of that as a fear of transgender people. I know you've abused langauge so much to the point of forgetting what it means, but come on.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578237#Comment_120578237

All these journalists, newspapers, media etc must have got it wrong so. Or am I abusing language here?

https://news.sky.com/story/jk-rowling-criticised-for-condescending-and-transphobic-tweets-12022330

https://www.glamour.com/story/a-complete-breakdown-of-the-jk-rowling-transgender-comments-controversy

https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2023/mar/15/jk-rowling-views-transgender-issues-many-folks-deeply-unhappy

https://theweek.com/feature/1020838/jk-rowlings-transphobia-controversy-a-complete-timeline?amp

To be honest, that's just scraping the surface by googling, "Times JK Rowling was transphobic".

Why is it so bad to own the label transphobic? She doesn't like trans people. That's what transphobia is.

Tell me, what is your issue with her being called transphobic? Can you show me times when she has supported the trans rights movement?

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578237#Comment_120578237

I just realised there's an irony in that you are abusing language here. Transphobia is not a "fear" of transgender people, as noted in the dictionary definition above. It's a strong dislike/show prejudice toward.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578182#Comment_120578182

Firstly:

Without knowing JK Rowling personally, that's all I have to go - we do the research, we access the information, you form a conclusion based on said information.

You, presumebly, came to the opposite conclsuion for the same reasons, did you not?

By your logic EVERYONE who formed an opinion an JK Rowling without ever meeting her or talking to her is an extremist, are they not?

Secondly:

Reread the post - I said:

the ones who just want to start fights and spread privocative rumours and lies.

Empasis on the verb 'spread...'

Did you see me spread anything at any point? No. You say me express an opinoin, that is all.

And yet, you have me down as extremist because you say that I did - with no evidence.

---

So, care to accept you made a misread my post and take back the accusation?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120577943#Comment_120577943

And that poster was lying, in service to their beliefs. They didn't substantiate what they were saying and were called out.

If I came in here spouting unsubstantiated nonsense I'd be set upon and my statements would be analysed and deconstructed, that is what discussion consists of and not just for me personally.

thegame983

If JKR is a transphobe then I guess the word doesn't mean anything.

Her positions are are rational and sane.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578705#Comment_120578705

...and yet, transphobic.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578701#Comment_120578701

I stated what my opinion was based on - no problem with people disagree with an opinon - but what you're effecrively doing here is calling someone a liar without evidence (unless it was proven beyond reasonale doubt that she was lying) - which never happened.

You having a different opion is not the other person being a liar.

Burty330

One of Rowlings hate crimes, oh the horror

'Months later, I compounded my accidental ‘like’ crime by following Magdalen Berns on Twitter. Magdalen was an immensely brave young feminist and lesbian who was dying of an aggressive brain tumour. I followed her because I wanted to contact her directly, which I succeeded in doing. However, as Magdalen was a great believer in the importance of biological sex, and didn’t believe lesbians should be called bigots for not dating trans women with penises, dots were joined in the heads of twitter trans activists, and the level of social media abuse increased'

For that she received death threats that continue to this day. To the left endless abuse and death threats is an equal trade off for having the wrong opinion

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578731#Comment_120578731

I'll say one thing, for an incredibly successful author, I'm not surprised she was able to convince a lot of gullible people that she is not a transphobe. Even when she literally fits the dictionary definition of a transphobe as I posted earlier. Its quite incredible how many think that transphobia is a fear of trans people.

Anyway, she is not from "the left" as this topic should be about. I'm sure there's a supportive thread for her on this forum that her supporters can rally to.

Burty330

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578760#Comment_120578760

Without linking to some article that invites the reader through a chain of 6 degrees of separation, what do you find to be the most egregious thing Rowling said about trans people through her own mouth piece?

A non-answer will say a lot.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578795#Comment_120578795

I've laid out many items already, if you choose not to read them, that's on you, not me.

How about you show me one example of her being unconditionally supportive of the trans movement or a trans individual, then I might believe she's not transphobic.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578730#Comment_120578730

Your contention is that I need to disprove the statement that all the good things that have ever happened in the world are because of "left leaning" people?

I provided evidence that movement for the abolition of slavery in the United Kingdom was led by conservatives and at least one notable evangelical Christian.

They in the other hand haven't provided any evidence.

I'm not claiming the opposite of what they're claiming I'm merely being moderate and stating that altruism in all its forms isn't the preserve of the left. Something I would assume that somebody like you who professes to be so moderate would be broadly in agreement with.

Since you're defending that posters honour now, do you care to substantiate their claims on their behalf?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120579078#Comment_120579078

No, you need to prove a statement - "the poster was lying" - your exact words.

Now, if that's your opinion, fine - but that shoud be clarified, because it came across as a factual satement. But if that's the case, you have to accept that nothing I said was unsubstantiated, we just had different opnions and we agree to disagree.

tesla_newbie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578705#Comment_120578705

You might as well condemn someone forty years ago for doubting the story of the loaves and the fishes

trans ideology is a set of religious beliefs so anyone ( like JK Rowling etc) who casts doubt is subject to condemnation and ostracised

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120579130#Comment_120579130

I cited an example that disproved their central point.

If you want to ignore that then you're doing so for your own reasons.

I presented facts, they presented opinion, they were lying and demonstrably so.

Why you wish to not aknowledge that, then that is your problem.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120579197#Comment_120579197

Not here you didn't - and I'm not trawling back through a thread from several weeks ago. Feel free to post again, but before you do : is it factual evidence or your opinoin? if the later, don't bother. if the former, are you sure it's factual?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120579226#Comment_120579226

I posted it last night, it's on the previous page to this. (Edit two pages back now).

And yes I posted fact not opinion.

Go and research the topic yourself if you don't believe me.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120578760#Comment_120578760

Trans has nothing to do with it.

JK Rowling is making a point about safeguarding women's spaces from biological males - irrespective of whether that male identifies as trans or not.

The same principle applies to sport.

To shout down women on any other basis is misogynistic - and that is a form of hate.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120579270#Comment_120579270

Well, you're wrong. Again. It has everything to do with trans. She's on record for saying many anti trans things. Have a look at the links I posted already.

Edited:

"Trans had nothing to do with it".

Baloney. Would you ever listen to yourself? She doesn't just talk about safeguarding women's spaces, she's vocally anti-trans.

https://news.sky.com/story/jk-rowling-criticised-for-condescending-and-transphobic-tweets-12022330