Eviction after 50 years

HerrKuehn

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/dublin-news/south-dublin-family-face-eviction-from-their-home-of-60-years-dail-told-42351837.html

I am struggling to understand this case. It seems the family have been privately (at least seems so, they don't qualify for social housing or HAP as they are above income thresholds). The rent is very low as it was fixed in the 80's?? Seems a very strange case. RBB is suggesting the state step in and purchase the home to allow the people to stay, even though they are not entitled to social housing due to their incomes. Should the state really be expected to buy houses that private renters are living in to make sure they don't have to find somewhere else?

ohnonotgmail

I would put money on the landlord dying in 2019 or 2020 and the person who inherited the house found out how low the rent was. They cant up the rent to current levels because of the cap on increases so they decided to sell up instead.

maninasia

Everything is over 3,000 a month...where they live now.

They have been getting a great deal since the 1980s at least. 40 years. How much could they have saved during that time?

As usual only half the facts shared.

Not sure why they deserve a free house in an upmarket area to be honest.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273858#Comment_120273858

Not sure why they deserve a free house in an upmarket area to be honest.

They don't but that won't stop the likes of RBB taking on a populist campaign that can only make him look good against the evil corporate landlords/council/government.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273858#Comment_120273858

It is the usual type of article, lots of bits missing as if they were shared there would be less sympathy. Lying through ommission.

When the woman’s parents initially moved in, the rent was fixed in the 1980s, “so was quite low”, said her husband.

I would humbly suggest that "quite low" is an enormous understatement. It was probably practically nothing.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273873#Comment_120273873

I would love to hear what the house would cost and what the rent was. Probably 800k and 2 shillings and sixpence rent.

RichardAnd

I'm reminded of leases that one would sometimes see on old Land Registry deeds: "rented for a sum of one shilling a year for 999 years".

Regardless of the circumstance here, this illustrates the big problem with renting. You don't own the house, so you can never be secure. I personally know people who rented a house for 20 years and were finally asked to leave when the owner decided to sell.

Does anyone know what the rent on a house in the 1980s would have been? I can't imagine that it was anything more than 100 a month or something obscenely low by today's standards.

10-10-20

RBB never refused a soap-box, no matter how flimsy.

What have they spent their 40 years of disposable income on in the meantime, holidays to Santa Ponsa and bitcoin?

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273917#Comment_120273917

Nah, dogecoin all the way!

AndyBoBandy

“It’s sleepless night after sleepless night,” she said, adding that housing in Dublin is “too expensive… everything is over €3,000-a-month and that’s not our budget”

The solution is fairly simple then... They need to find somewhere that is within their budget, and if that means moving to Leitrim and the kids changing schools then so be it... (they must have had their kids later in life if they are in their fifties and the kids are still in school).

“It’s not feasible for us. It’s money we don’t have,” she said.

So paying a 'very low' rent for the guts of 40 years (while the entire housing/rental market boomed/busted several times), and they earn above the threshold for supports, yet don't have a pot to pi$$ in....

Sounds to me like they've been living the life of riley for the last 40+ years, paying fcuk all rent, and spending their money as opposed to putting some away for a rainy day or even a house purchase..... assuming their 'situation' would never change... but as a poster above mentioned, most likely the landlord passed away and whoever inherited* it realised they just inherited a €500k-€800k asset that's probably only earning them €1k-€2k in rent a year.

*not to mention the probability of any capitol gains tax that might be due on such an inheritance...

RBB championing this 'cause' is exactly why the likes of RBB are nothing but faux outraged rent-a-shouters who'll jump on whatever bandwagon will further their own agenda. Wasn't he also defending the guy in the fancy repossessed house in Kiliney that owed BOI millions and millions, and refused to leave the house because it was a lovely house...

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274195#Comment_120274195

Agree with all of this, apart from they pissed it all away. We have no idea, especially with these "lying by omission" articles, similar to the Asta Kelly case in Killiney, they were only homeless because their 30 rental properties were rented out at the time. They might have other assets. We really have no idea.

It is most likely as many have mentioned, someone has died recently that had a house worth a lot of money rented for a very small amount. Would love to hear RBB tell us what it would cost to buy the house.

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274195#Comment_120274195

Spot on. This comes back to the idea that social housing should be a safety net to provide accommodation for those who cannot afford to pay for their own accommodation. At some point people need to take responsibility for looking after themselves. If you want to live in a leafy suburb with great schools, then pay for it yourself. If you cant afford it, move somewhere you can afford. The state should not pick up the slack to subsidise your lifestyle. This is why we need to go back to council estates where there as an agreed standard on what a social house should be, and not taking sections of private estates for the same purpose.

Victor

"I'm reminded of leases that one would sometimes see on old Land Registry deeds: "rented for a sum of one shilling a year for 999 years"."

Those are ground rents, not rents. You had to pay a substantial sum up front to buy the lease. The purpose of ground rents was often to stop people building unsuitable things, e.g. a slaughter house in a residential area.

I don't see the problem, renting is a temporary solution, you can't bank on that property being available to you for the rest of your life. Sounds like the tenants have made some poor decisions over the last 40 years if they cant afford to support themselves now. They now need to stump up for current rents or move to an area where rents are within their budget.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274240#Comment_120274240

This is a larger conversation that is one of the many elephants in the herd that currently screams in the corner of the room that is Ireland. I know people who got social housing for a song in areas near my mom. I could not afford to buy anything there, so I ended up moving to Wexford, which I'm ambivalent about at best. I've worked for my entire adult life, never drawn welfare, and never used a single state service beyond the library. Should anyone be getting "free" accommodation in and excellent location when working people are unable to do so?

It's a can of worms, but it really needs to be discussed.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274246#Comment_120274246

I didn't know that. I just remember seeing things like that on old deeds. One of them was a house in Cork that was signed up to a 999 year lease back in the early 18th century. I wonder whether its still under that lease...

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274325#Comment_120274325

Most would have been since bought out. Legislation was passed providing for this

The Spider

I don’t know, some people don’t get it, I lived in a leafy part of south Dublin years ago renting, crash happened while I was there, but there was a lovely woman from the area who rented a house on the same street for years, kids in the local schools etc, when I was there, there were loads of places to rent at what would be considered reasonable prices these days, 1000 euro for a 2 bed house etc. But she considered it her home she told me she paid to have the floors redone herself and I said to her she shouldn’t be paying for that it’s not her house and things may swing around again, and the landlord may want to sell, but she didn’t seem to get it, said he was sound and all that which Im sure he was, but she was really acting like it was a council house which it wasn’t.

Im long gone from there but I often wonder what happened in that situation, in 2010 you could have bought a similar house to hers for around 270000, these days it’ll fetch close to 800-850,:no matter how nice a guy he was I have no doubt those kind of numbers would swing him into selling, if he did sell it was probably a few years ago at this stage because even though the area was desirable then, at this stage it would be an absolute premier area of Dublin

victor8600

I think it would actually be good for landlords if there were clear, enforceable tenant protection rules in place. Right now it seems that a misbehaving tenant can get away with not paying the rent, trashing the place and the landlord would be happy to pay the tenant to leave. While on the other hand, a tenant of 20-50 years can be thrown out on the street with a short notice?

Imagine if you started to rent a house in your 30s, lived there for 50 years and now you, in your 80s, are asked to leave to find another place? It must be considered a cruel and unusual punishment, yet landlord class would see nothing wrong with it.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274685#Comment_120274685

While on the other hand, a tenant of 20-50 years can be thrown out on the street with a short notice?

Imagine if you started to rent a house in your 30s, lived there for 50 years and now you, in your 80s, are asked to leave to find another place? It must be considered a cruel and unusual punishment, yet landlord class would see nothing wrong with it.

Had you bothered reading the article, you'd see that it says "They were served with a termination notice in 2020."

So on that basis, how exactly are they being thrown out on the street at short notice? They made the decisaion to overhold presumably beause they don't want to have to pay market rate

victor8600

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274724#Comment_120274724

That is exactly my point. The tenants were give a notice to vacate the property they lived in most of their lives, they are now overholding and not leaving because there is no point for them to hurry. Why did this happen? Because the rules are bad and unenforceable. Is the rules being bad the natural state of things and is this the way it must be? No. Look at the tenant protections in the USA, or Germany and copy those. Otherwise, each "struggling family" case would need to be considered by An Dáil, just to be fair.

The Spider

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274724#Comment_120274724

The other side here is that they’re in their 50’s so roughly my generation I’m 50, in the 90’s I was in my 20’s and 30’s in the 2000’s so they’re the same vintage and had the opportunity to get money together and buy if they wished, especially during the crash now no one knows anyone’s circumstances but the fact that they’re above the limit for HAP says they’re in maybe someway decent jobs, area may be a premium area and they couldn’t bring themselves to leave it, but I agree with others this is an inheritance and the new owners want to sell, and maybe have no wish to be landlords which is fair enough it shouldn’t be forced on anyone.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274782#Comment_120274782

your point was also this

While on the other hand, a tenant of 20-50 years can be thrown out on the street with a short notice?

which is complete nonsense. after that period of time they have to give 224 days notice.

Xander10

Given how low there rent was for over 50 years, did they consider saving to buy, to avoid a scenario that was always probably with a private landlord?

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274827#Comment_120274827

Clearly not, which is why Richard Boyd/Barrett is now championing the case of yet another downtrodden renter being thrown to the ditch from their leafy 'home' in South Dublin because they refused to adhere to the official notice they were given to vacate.

And election after election people still vote for this cretin.

MarkR

Not knowing the family situation, but if they've been paying a low rent for 60 years, you'd think one of the four of them would have some savings. Generations of them with their heads buried in the sand. Years ago, this wouldn't be a story. You can't afford rent, you go to where you can afford it.

Same publication will will query why private landlords are leaving the market. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/rental-market-shrinks-by-43000-homes-in-five-years-as-landlords-cash-in-on-their-properties-42180698.html

People have a right to a roof over their head, but it doesn't have to be in Killiney.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274325#Comment_120274325

The more up to date version of those agreements are leases of land for 99 years at €1 pa if demanded and renewable on the same terms. They are not ground rent and are sometimes called "peppercorn rents".

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274613#Comment_120274613

Even if the landlord were the kindest man alive, he could die tomorrow and the house would become to property of someone who wants to sell up. If I inherited a house tomorrow, I'd either want to sell it or live in it myself. I wouldn't want the trouble of renting a property.

There are times in life when renting is a good option, but long-term renting is how families become poor. It took me a long time to understand that, but now that I have, I look at renting and feel sick at the thought of paying dead money each month.

shangobango

Current rent is €31.74 per week.

In Blackrock !!!

shangobango

The tenants (the husband) owns a house on the Northside which his mother lives in.

shangobango

The tenants were offered first refusal to buy the property 2 years ago but rejected it.