Trolling on the Russia thread Current Affairs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120297736#Comment_120297736

Do you think constantly opening or being involved in threads bad mouthing the mods, site and threads you personally don’t like will change anything?

I mean your threatening to leave the coffee & tea forum unless the bowel movement thread was closed didn’t go your way and moaning about how we do F all hasn’t changed the fact we actually do a lot more than you think but alas.

For someone who loves to complain the mods etc are just doing the “same old stuff” you sure do a lot of the same old stuff yourself with no different result.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120297736#Comment_120297736

It is still the best advice. Unless you can think of better advice?

astrofool

It does feel a bit like this:

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303561#Comment_120303561

So what should boards.ie do?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303706#Comment_120303706

...some of the suggestions already made?...

Gatling

Just look a the first page the banned list is nearly at 60 accounts ,

Beasty has done a great job keeping on top of things , but it's not just trolling there's a few sly digs getting in by not so recently registered posters too ,

Not seen much of the new CA mods though

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303729#Comment_120303729

Which ones in particular? Some of them are not possible with Vanilla and others are unworkable.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303750#Comment_120303750

See my comments on the previous page among others, none of that needs vanilla changes and becomes self enforcing on thread similar to threadbans.

But, are you really looking for ideas or just here to parrot how crap vanilla is on the tooling side? Because everyone knows that, it doesn't need repeating, but there does seem to be an us vs them dynamic creeping in with little on thread notices and mods sticking to "the way things were" and blaming users for responding to trolls which is an absolutely ridiculous attitude to have, falling into the "let them eat cake" category of responses.

Hodors Appletart

People respond to trolls, people engage with trolls, people don't ignore trolls.

No matter the semantic gymnastics employed, telling people to ignore, not engage with or whatever else is simply never going to happen. It won't happen on Boards, it won't happen on twitter, facebook, reddit or anywhere else.

It is a demonstrably failed tactic, in twenty five years of internet interactions, all over the world, the only social media where trolls are not really present are those with very strict criteria for posting (which there does not seem to be any appetite for here) or verym, very niche topics with low userbase (again, boards does not currently fall under this category either).

It's all very well pointing out a banlist of 60+ accounts and saying well done, but the thread and wider website is still being trolled on the regular - and there seems to be a tacit acceptance that the posting criteria are not going to be tightened up, so therefore you need to put up with the trolls, and the people who at some stage or other going to call them out.

It is, and always has been, nonsensical to take punitive action against non-troll users for calling out trolls.

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120289181#Comment_120289181

"However if you think it's a re-re tell us who you think it's a re-reg of. If you cannot pinpoint their prior accounts don't just say "re-reg". Anyone is entitled to re-reg, unless their account is banned"

What if a poster reckons that a new poster is a re-reg of any one of a number of people that endlessly re-register on the site, but cannot pinpoint which one?

I would have thought that flagging a poster as potential re-reg and letting the mods/cmods/admin use their extra resources to have a closer look would be welcome...but perhaps not.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120296830#Comment_120296830

I think the change to vanilla screwed over more volunteers than any re reg is capable of

Ficheall

The postcount minimum won't keep the posters in that thread happy. I've significantly more than 50 posts and was accused of being a troll and Putin bot for having the temerity to suggest that Russia's arse wasn't being so profoundly whooped as people on the thread were suggesting. Anti-Russian but pessimistic posters need to be banned, hung, drawn and quartered too.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291230#Comment_120291230

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120291979#Comment_120291979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120303977#Comment_120303977

I have quoted your two suggestions. One is a minimum post count that vanilla doesn't support and the other is suggesting that users don't respond to trolls. exactly the suggestion by mods that you are complaining about. you must be on the wind up.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304413#Comment_120304413

Bloody hell, why would you turn this into an argument here.

But anyway, this doesn't need tools from Vanilla:

It would (likely) help if the mods could add a comment when they get banned (the thread moves so fast that it can get missed if a ban/siteban has occurred) and say if it was a confirmed re-reg or not (so people know if they were correct in reporting a re-reg).

This doesn't need tools from Vanilla:

Actually, you can just add a "Must have 50 posts" or something similar in the OP (and maybe title) for that thread, threadbans aren't code enforced

Moderators disagreeing with each other doesn't need tools from Vanilla (and there seems to be a moderator stubbornness here to admit the mixed messaging which doesn't bode well):

Also mind the mixed messaging, telling people just to ignore while another moderator is asking for reports and more details and who it might be don't work together.

This doesn't need tools from Vanilla:

regular posters put themselves at risk of punishment when responding

And that's just my suggestions.

I'd suggest PM if you want to continue a back and forth because I can get really condescending if I need to.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304448#Comment_120304448

Good for you. well done.

Mr. CooL ICE

Actually, you can just add a "Must have 50 posts" or something similar in the OP (and maybe title) for that thread, threadbans aren't code enforced

If a troll is going to ignore a siteban, they're not going to abide by a message in the OP

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304475#Comment_120304475

exactly. all it does is create more admin work both in terms of removing posts and the helpdesk complaints it will inevitably create from legitimate users annoyed that their posts were deleted

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304475#Comment_120304475

No, but other users will know not to respond due to the 50 post criteria rather than engaging, the same way threadbans already work, it becomes self-policing and removes the ability for the troll to argue otherwise or engage with other users as their lifetime on the thread will be very limited.

Mods are already having to spend time removing posts because people will engage with the troll, this should limit the number of posts to be deleted and cuts off oxygen to the troll as they are being cut off due to a technicality rather than the content of their posts (which is what they really want).

As others have said, punishing regular users for responding to trolls, uncivil or not, is absurd and it's crazy it's gone on this long given that some users re-reg on the sole basis to target other posters and get them banned as well.

ohnonotgmail

"The way threadbans already work". You mean routinely ignored? Just dont engage with trolls full stop. They are pretty easy to spot most of the time.

weisses

Just dont engage with them and report them ... It takes away the the only incentive they want to keep posting

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304413#Comment_120304413

Surely the point of a minimum post count is that it makes it easier for a mod to make a logical decision. Let's say it's set at 100 posts for a controversial thread.

They scan down and if they see a poster with <100 posts, they automatically thread ban. Regardless of what they've written.

If an account with 100+ is reported, they check back to see when they first posted in the thread in case they were missed posting below the 100 threshold.

It may not be capable of being implemented automatically but it would surely help a mod to make quick and immediate decisions.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305093#Comment_120305093

If an account with 100+ is reported, they check back to see when they first posted in the thread in case they were missed posting below the 100 threshold.

do you have any idea how much work that could involve? creating extra work for mods is not the answer.

See a troll, report the post, move on. though that does rely on a level of self control that not all possess.

Jaysus the amount of time and energy you guys are spending to devise a cunning stratagem to help the mods.. here’s four words to help mods:

don’t take the bait.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305211#Comment_120305211

No I don't to be frank. Surely far easier to implement a ban using a simple criteria like this, compared to reading and analysing a series of posts and making a value judgement of content. The point of this is to quickly sort out accounts being set up to troll, being banned and set up again.........

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305228#Comment_120305228

Analyse?

when an account is setup to troll it’s almost obvious from the getgo. The three quick fire checks for me are:

1. reported (if it’s been) post itself
2. post count (are they a new reg)
3. where was it posted (very few people register accounts to post an inflammatory comment in a busy thread)

if those boxes are ticked (any or all) the user is referred for admin investigation where they’ll have a looksy to see if they relate to any recently banned users which is why if you have a clue who it might be it’s worth sharing. Speeds things up if you guess correctly.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305211#Comment_120305211

Surely just being able to see the <100 posters is better than nothing, even if they never bother checking the posters with higher post counts? That alone would be a quick and easy way to thin out the numbers.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good, at least it would contribute something, unlike the decades old failure that is "don't feed the troll".

Or are you just here to sneer at any idea brought forward?

The thing is a min post count etc only stops newly reg’d trolls. There’s plenty of users here who tread a fine line and get away with it for a while then unleash.

sure it was like 1-2 weeks ago a re reg was banned after posting some threads in AH but they had the mask up for nearly 50 posts before anyone knew.

they let the mask slip with those threads and were subsequently banned. But the point there is they managed to sleuth around and stay off the radar for 50 posts. If they can do it any troll can.

no measure is absolute and no matter what the trolls will circumvent whatever we put in place. But the one thing they cant circumvent is refusal to engage.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305252#Comment_120305252

make it personal. good job.

josip

Some of the posts here are about how to deal with traditional 'trolls' without having much first hand knowledge of the 'trolls' in the Russian thread. I think traditional trolling type posts are a small minority of the garbage. It's more disingenuous shilling that it is the problem. They will start off with a few non-confrontational posts, ask a few questions. Most people by now just assume that ANY low-count poster is an incoming Russian shill. Given the history of Russia in this area, it's not unreasonable to suspect that this is not an individual alone in their bedroom. It may be more orchestrated. In the beginning, new posters asking questions were given the benefit of the doubt, and in general their questions were answered/countered. But after 50 iterations, everybody is annoyed and they are given short shrift.

The problem is that these shills are trying to antagonise the other posters into an inappropriate response and get them carded/banned. And it's working. Man of the genuine posters on that thread have been carded for "Uncivil" posts by the mods there. The shills' objective is obviously to get the pro-Ukrainian voices diluted, so that they can have freer rein with their whataboutery and both-siding. One can only hope that the mods aren't so naiive as to not see through what the shills are trying to achieve.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305356#Comment_120305356

Naïveté doesn’t come into it. Whether they’re just at the end of their rope with trolls or not no one is going to be allowed behave in an uncivil fashion.

If you think someone’s a troll report them and don’t get involved in a stupid argument with someone you are convinced is trolling, like what’s the point even?